Confirmed with Link: **A LOOK BACK ** Penguins sign Jack Johnson 5 years 16.25 total (3.25 cap hit)

[Empoleon8771]

They're all about as mediocre honestly. Would you be comfortable giving Daley or Cole a 5 year deal assuming they're the same age as Johnson?

Ah, whatever. What's done is done. My hopes are:

1) Johnson will be less terrible at puck possession if given more favorable matchups/zone starts

2) That he won't age horrendously.

I wouldn't be comfortable with giving a #4 defenseman a 5 year deal regardless, unless they're young and have upside. I've mostly gotten over the term that Johnson got, because it's not a near term problem, but that's mostly irrelevant from this discussion. I don't think Johnson is worse than any of the stronger depth defensemen the Penguins have had in recent years, I think he's only a little bit below Maatta under normal circumstances.

 

[Pancakes]

I wouldn't be comfortable with giving a #4 defenseman a 5 year deal regardless, unless they're young and have upside. I've mostly gotten over the term that Johnson got, because it's not a near term problem, but that's mostly irrelevant from this discussion. I don't think Johnson is worse than any of the stronger depth defensemen the Penguins have had in recent years, I think he's only a little bit below Maatta under normal circumstances.

I will say the one thing that nobody seems to be mentioning with Johnson is yes his analytics suck but he also been given brutal d-zone starts for most of his career. If the Pens deploy him 56% of the time in the d-zone the way Columbus did he'll probably struggle again, but if they give him less difficult assignments, I think he can look good potentially.

And if his rel corsi stays around -2.0 like it did in CBJ that's not great or anything but if you compare that to the nearly minus 5 Hunwick posted and the -3.4 Oleksiak posted it's still an improvement to whatever pair he's put on.

Jack was actually -5 last year in Corsi rel but hopefully that's an anomaly as the two years prior he wasn't nearly as bad there.

 

[Richard]

I will say the one thing that nobody seems to be mentioning with Johnson is yes his analytics suck but he also been given brutal d-zone starts for most of his career. If the Pens deploy him 56% of the time in the d-zone the way Columbus did he'll probably struggle again, but if they give him less difficult assignments, I think he can look good potentially.

And if his rel corsi stays around -2.0 like it did in CBJ that's not great or anything but if you compare that to the nearly minus 5 Hunwick posted and the -3.4 Oleksiak posted it's still an improvement to whatever pair he's put on.

Jack was actually -5 last year in Corsi rel but hopefully that's an anomaly as the two years prior he wasn't nearly as bad there.

His Corsi sucks because HE sucks. Mark my words Jack Johnson will be the biggest mistake of a FA contract anyone has given. He is literally at waste of almost 16 million cap space.

The guy has NEVER learned to play NHL defense. He goes for big hit or the high risk pinch all the time. He will make Letang look heady.

I'm glad I saw two cups because this team ain't doing shit with this blueline. Not one quality defensive dman on the damn roster.

 

[Turin]

His Corsi sucks because HE sucks. Mark my words Jack Johnson will be the biggest mistake of a FA contract anyone has given. He is literally at waste of almost 16 million cap space.

The guy has NEVER learned to play NHL defense. He goes for big hit or the high risk pinch all the time. He will make Letang look heady.

I'm glad I saw two cups because this team ain't doing **** with this blueline. Not one quality defensive dman on the damn roster.

Dumoulin? They have about as many as they had before...

 

[Richard]

Dumoulin? They have about as many as they had before...

Dumo is really all they have, but I'd consider him good at moving the puck and skating. He's not a shut down defender, or at least, he wasn't when paired with Kris Letang.

 

[Turin]

Dumo is really all they have, but I'd consider him good at moving the puck and skating. He's not a shut down defender, or at least, he wasn't when paired with Kris Letang.

He’s as much a shut down defender as you’re going to find in the eastern conference. I assume you think Ian Cole or Ben Lovejoy fit that paradigm?

 

[Tom Hanks]

He’s as much a shut down defender as you’re going to find in the eastern conference. I assume you think Ian Cole or Ben Lovejoy fit that paradigm?

Olli Maatta doesn’t seem to get scored on much at least in the playoffs. I don’t have the stats, from memory. We had one D man who just seemed to never get scored on.

 

[3074326]

His Corsi sucks because HE sucks. Mark my words Jack Johnson will be the biggest mistake of a FA contract anyone has given. He is literally at waste of almost 16 million cap space.

The guy has NEVER learned to play NHL defense. He goes for big hit or the high risk pinch all the time. He will make Letang look heady.

I'm glad I saw two cups because this team ain't doing **** with this blueline. Not one quality defensive dman on the damn roster.

This is the dumbest post I've seen in here for a while. Have a nice night boys.

 

[Darth Vitale]

His Corsi sucks because HE sucks. Mark my words Jack Johnson will be the biggest mistake of a FA contract anyone has given. He is literally at waste of almost 16 million cap space.

The guy has NEVER learned to play NHL defense. He goes for big hit or the high risk pinch all the time. He will make Letang look heady.

I'm glad I saw two cups because this team ain't doing **** with this blueline. Not one quality defensive dman on the damn roster.

I can appreciate your faithfullness to the data points — and they do point to a guy who we should all consider to be "suspect" for the time being — but let's at least give him till December to see if maybe we utilize him (and improve his game in modest ways) other teams have not. That said, your words, they have been marked.

And mark my marking of your marked words: if you turn out to be wrong, I will hunt you down... and ridicule you on the internets. Terrible fate right? That'll learn you. (If you're right I will hunt you down and congratulate you on the internets... but not before I do some serious cursing.)

 

[Ogrezilla]

I can appreciate your faithfullness to the data points — and they do point to a guy who we should all consider to be "suspect" for the time being — but let's at least give him till December to see if maybe we utilize him (and improve his game in modest ways) other teams have not. That said, your words, they have been marked.

And mark my marking of your marked words: if you turn out to be wrong, I will hunt you down... and ridicule you on the internets. Terrible fate right? That'll learn you.

dude you know people who react like that won't even care. He can be scoring every damn game, as soon as he makes one bad play he'll jump out with the I told you so and say his mistakes aren't worth it.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I can appreciate your faithfullness to the data points — and they do point to a guy who we should all consider to be "suspect" for the time being — but let's at least give him till December to see if maybe we utilize him (and improve his game in modest ways) other teams have not. That said, your words, they have been marked.

And mark my marking of your marked words: if you turn out to be wrong, I will hunt you down... and ridicule you on the internets. Terrible fate right? That'll learn you. (If you're right I will hunt you down and congratulate you on the internets... but not before I do some serious cursing.)

Found Liam Neeson’s account

 

[Richard]

I can appreciate your faithfullness to the data points — and they do point to a guy who we should all consider to be "suspect" for the time being — but let's at least give him till December to see if maybe we utilize him (and improve his game in modest ways) other teams have not. That said, your words, they have been marked.

And mark my marking of your marked words: if you turn out to be wrong, I will hunt you down... and ridicule you on the internets. Terrible fate right? That'll learn you. (If you're right I will hunt you down and congratulate you on the internets... but not before I do some serious cursing.)

Dude I've watched a lot of hockey, I know a lot of people who make their living watching hockey..... I will seriously delete my account if in three years we look back on this signing as a "good" thing.

I've followed Jack since 05, he has NEVER put it together. He was benched in columbus because he is basically uncoachable. Not just with Torts but with everyone. He stinks. To make matters worse his body is slowing down and he has zero hockey sense.

Honestly, I am underracting, if anything. Think of a guy that plays like hunwick but pinches for a big hit..... signed for five years.....

Our system is already murder on dman....

 

[Richard]

He’s as much a shut down defender as you’re going to find in the eastern conference. I assume you think Ian Cole or Ben Lovejoy fit that paradigm?

No, cole was a physical defender. Lovejoy played a nice, simple game and benefited from Kris Letang playing the playoffs of his life.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Honestly, I am underracting, if anything.

 

[Turin]

No, cole was a physical defender. Lovejoy played a nice, simple game and benefited from Kris Letang playing the playoffs of his life.

So I’m not really seeing the issue..

 

[Ogrezilla]

So I’m not really seeing the issue..

we had defensive specialist Trevor Daley on those teams, that's the key.

 

[Shady Machine]

His Corsi sucks because HE sucks. Mark my words Jack Johnson will be the biggest mistake of a FA contract anyone has given. He is literally at waste of almost 16 million cap space.

The guy has NEVER learned to play NHL defense. He goes for big hit or the high risk pinch all the time. He will make Letang look heady.

I'm glad I saw two cups because this team ain't doing **** with this blueline. Not one quality defensive dman on the damn roster.

Still holding onto your butt from the sound of it.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

His Corsi sucks because HE sucks. Mark my words Jack Johnson will be the biggest mistake of a FA contract anyone has given. He is literally at waste of almost 16 million cap space.

The guy has NEVER learned to play NHL defense. He goes for big hit or the high risk pinch all the time. He will make Letang look heady.

I'm glad I saw two cups because this team ain't doing **** with this blueline. Not one quality defensive dman on the damn roster.

Dumo is really all they have, but I'd consider him good at moving the puck and skating. He's not a shut down defender, or at least, he wasn't when paired with Kris Letang.

Hyperbole in the first quote, bad analysis in the second quote.

Even if Johnson doesn't pan out, he's not going to be "the biggest mistake of a FA contract anyone has given". He'll simply be an overpriced bottom pairing defenseman.

As for the underrating of Dumoulin, I don't even know what to say to that after the last three playoff runs.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Jack Johnson played for team USA in the olympics and WC. Clearly coaches see something in him. I hope he can get back to that level of play. Afterall, we didn't sign him to be a top 2 guy.

 

[Jesse]

I know you don't want to go into too much detail here, but in the Brass deal did they at least have a plan for another 3C to come over or were they counting on Sheahan stepping in? The young players we'd be including in a "competitive package" concern me too.

No, it was for a left wing. And it was a very competitive package, perhaps even an overpayment, that still got turned down by the other team.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No, it was for a left wing. And it was a very competitive package, perhaps even an overpayment, that still got turned down by the other team.

Ah, that pours cold water over any enthusiasm I had for that deal. Moving Brass and giving Sheahan the 3C again doesn't appeal to me, never mind what else we added. Glad it didn't go through.

 

[Pens x]

Jack Johnson played for team USA in the olympics and WC. Clearly coaches see something in him. I hope he can get back to that level of play. Afterall, we didn't sign him to be a top 2 guy.

This might be the biggest head-scratcher post of the summer:

Chris Kunitz played for team Canada.
Dan Bylsma coached team USA
Ray Shero was the assistant GM of team USA.
The Olympics were 4 years ago.

Should we go after Sharp, Cam Ward, Luongo, Rick Nash and Orpik since they were Olympians in Sochi?

Are you sure Johnson was even on team USA on 2014? Surely you aren’t referring to something from 8 years ago....I mean really, you can’t be referring to the Vancouver games....right???

Jack Johnson played on Team USA in 2010! He’s good!

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Based on what? Daley's possession stats have been an abortion for his entire career.

I really don't get why people are saying that guys like Daley and Cole are better than Johnson, it's really not based on anything statistically. I think those 3 guys are all around the same level of being #4 defensemen.

I agree, Emp. Doesn't make any sense why people are claiming Ian Cole is head and shoulders above JJ.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Dude I've watched a lot of hockey, I know a lot of people who make their living watching hockey..... I will seriously delete my account if in three years we look back on this signing as a "good" thing.

I've followed Jack since 05, he has NEVER put it together. He was benched in columbus because he is basically uncoachable. Not just with Torts but with everyone. He stinks. To make matters worse his body is slowing down and he has zero hockey sense.

Honestly, I am underracting, if anything. Think of a guy that plays like hunwick but pinches for a big hit..... signed for five years.....

Our system is already murder on dman....

Dude, every person involved in the acquisition of Jack Johnson also has "watched a lot of hockey" and they don't just make their living watching hockey... their living IS hockey...

 

[Jaded-Fan]

To put it simply JJ is not a borderline NHL player, he is a legit #4 with some potential upside because one of the things that he does really well, that pass from the defensive zone to start a rush (only 5 other players complete that pass at a higher percentage) fits like a glove how the Pens play. Think about how Bonino would spring Hags and Kessel with those passes. Different position but goes to the point of what the Pens try to do to play to their strengths. His point totals almost certainly will go up playing with the Pens, especially if he connects with those passes to start the rush out of the defensive zone. Columbus was 17th in the NHL in goals per game, Pens 3rd.

And he is not being paid like a top line defenseman.