Confirmed with Link: **A LOOK BACK ** Penguins sign Jack Johnson 5 years 16.25 total (3.25 cap hit)

[Shady Machine]

I'm not as convinced we need to shelter JJ all that much. If all of the pairings are around 50/50 starts, with some matching up as necessary (Dumo vs. top lines), then we should be fine.

JJ's ability to play more minutes than Cole effectively, which was always one of Cole's issues that concerned me, should allow us to reduce the load on everyone else. We'll see if Oleksiak ends up PK'ing, but JJ should be a regular.

Generally agree. The good news is that, unlike Cole, Johnson has spent his entire career playing 20+ minutes until recently. He has the experience doing it, even if the statistical results don't look great.

 

[Jesse]

What’s your take on Brassard vs Sheahan with Cullen here now. Should they move Brassard if a top 6 LW is available? Or an upgrade on defense?

They have shopped Brassard. I can tell you that much for sure. They had a very competitive package for Skinner that I believe included him, but Carolina appears to be looking for a Kings ransom there.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

After sitting on this signing for a minute people need to calm down, at worst he will be a more skillful Orpik with a less cap hit. 3.5M is absolute chump change with the current cap and there are no trade restrictions on the contract with s upcoming buyout CBA. Pump brakes calm down. At worst he is a #5/6 at best he is a second pair. Dramatics need to stop.

Do you really expect that the Dramatics will ever stop when it comes to hand-wringing Yinzers???

 

[Pancakes]

And what's weird about this, Shady, is that the better he played, the more his minutes got cut and the more he got relegated to defensive zone starts. It was a really weird case study. I didn't quite understand that move.

Also, Columbus routinely sends defensemen out for shifts that go in excess of 1:30. I thought that was weird, too. When I mentioned it on Twitter, a bunch of CBJ fans chimed in with screen shots from Shift Chart that basically backed up what I saw in these three games. A lot of Johnson's problems matriculated once his shifts extended beyond 1:00.

Third pairing, short shifts, gratuitous offensive zone starts seems like a recipe for success here.

I certainly hope we can get value out of Johnson, but the concern for me is his numbers have been bad everywhere, not just Columbus. He's also old.

If he were younger, like Schultz, I'd say maybe we can fix him. But I have sincere doubts that we can fix a 31 year old defenseman. I think it's more likely he is what he is at this point, so the challenge for the Pens/Sully unfortunately will be limiting the damage this bad contract will cause.

I really hope I'm wrong though.

They have shopped Brassard. I can tell you that much for sure. They had a very competitive package for Skinner that I believe included him, but Carolina appears to be looking for a Kings ransom there.

Cullen was questionable possession-wise last year. He did still put up the offense, but I'm not convinced that he's the answer at 4c if Brass is moved out.

So that would be my worry there.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

And what's weird about this, Shady, is that the better he played, the more his minutes got cut and the more he got relegated to defensive zone starts. It was a really weird case study. I didn't quite understand that move.

Also, Columbus routinely sends defensemen out for shifts that go in excess of 1:30. I thought that was weird, too. When I mentioned it on Twitter, a bunch of CBJ fans chimed in with screen shots from Shift Chart that basically backed up what I saw in these three games. A lot of Johnson's problems matriculated once his shifts extended beyond 1:00.

Third pairing, short shifts, gratuitous offensive zone starts seems like a recipe for success here.

Don't we already have enough defenders that need to be sheltered?

 

[EightyOne]

Both.



I just have a hard time seeing JJ fixing any sort of problems on the blueline

It means Hunwick didn't have to play here another year. That's one problem fixed.

There's no way JJ doesn't position better or make better plays. I mean, rolling four forwards woulda been better at times with Hunwick playing.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not sure I feel better about the distinction between JJ being benched for poor play and being benched because he was their 7th best defenseman. I have a healthy amount of respect for Columbus' blueline, especially moving forward but I guess that doesn't really assuage too many of my concerns. This team doesn't really need a 3+ million dollar bottom pairing guy that needs coached up and then sheltered after that, at least IMO. But I mean... I'll stay open minded about all of it. At least, as noted above, he's not Hunwick.

I mean... he CAN'T be worse than that. Heh... right?

RIGHT?!?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I spent this week watching the same three games leading up to JJ's benching as Gonchar/Sullivan did. Extensive video breakdown on The Athletic if anyone is interested.

tl;dnr - Johnson didn't get benched because of poor play, he got benched because he was the 7th best defenseman on the team.

I looked at your article and it was a great read. Basically it seems like JJ most likely turns out to be the reliable vanilla defenseman that he is being paid as. Which honestly is just fine.

There is this also which was linked earlier in this thread which explains why he fits the Pens and what they do perfectly and may explain the pursuit better for some questioning:

According to Mike Kelly of the NHL Network , among defensemen who logged at least 1,000 even-strength minutes, only five were better at completing an outlet pass from their defensive zone and into the neutral zone: 73.5 percent of the time.

That's a talent that is particularly valued by Penguins management because they covet defensemen who move the puck with accuracy to their fast, skilled forwards. Columbus' depth of talent up front can't match what is present in Pittsburgh.

"It's certainly going to help him with the forwards that he plays with," Penguins general manager Jim Rutherford said Sunday. "You go back to the two years we won the Cup, and we had a tremendous transition game. In that transition game, you have to have defensemen that can move the puck."
Rutherford said he buys into those outlet pass numbers. He also claims old-fashioned scouting supports what the numbers reflect.

"We look at the numbers. But we talk to the guys that see him all the time," Rutherford said. "And we talked to the coaches who really study his videos. We think he's going to make a difference."

Tim Benz: What the advanced stat critics are missing about Penguins' Jack Johnson

The Pens have struggled quite a bit with just that over really the past couple of years. Getting trapped in their own end and cleanly exiting the defensive zone. If JJ can help with that and chew up some vanilla effective minutes I for one am going to love him.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I certainly hope we can get value out of Johnson, but the concern for me is his numbers have been bad everywhere, not just Columbus. He's also old.

If he were younger, like Schultz, I'd say maybe we can fix him. But I have sincere doubts that we can fix a 31 year old defenseman. I think it's more likely he is what he is at this point, so the challenge for the Pens/Sully unfortunately will be limiting the damage this bad contract will cause.

I really hope I'm wrong though.



Cullen was questionable possession-wise last year. He did still put up the offense, but I'm not convinced that he's the answer at 4c if Brass is moved out.

So that would be my worry there.

I don't think it's about "fixing" him as much as it is about putting him into a position that maximizes his strengths while neutralizing his weaknesses. I don't think they're going to ask him to do things he's never done before.

Also, just for the record... Trevor Daley was 32 years old when the Penguins acquired him and he was a huge part of the back-to-back.

 

[BigEezyE22]

I looked at your article and it was a great read. Basically it seems like JJ most likely turns out to be the reliable vanilla defenseman that he is being paid as. Which honestly is just fine.

There is this also which was linked earlier in this thread which explains why he fits the Pens and what they do perfectly and may explain the pursuit better for some questioning:



Tim Benz: What the advanced stat critics are missing about Penguins' Jack Johnson

The Pens have struggled quite a bit with just that over really the past couple of years. Getting trapped in their own end and cleanly exiting the defensive zone. If JJ can help with that and chew up some vanilla effective minutes I for one am going to love him.

It's almost like they went bargain hunting for someone who might be a good fit...

 

[AjaxTelamon]

People loved Orpik forever, albeit moreso the regular Pens fan than the HFboard folks, but one of his biggest and most glaring issues as a player was always an inability to move the puck effectively. He was a turnover machine, could never complete a tape to tape pass under any kind of pressure, and certainly couldn't hit a guy in stride through a tight window. Here's a guy that ticks a lot of the boxes of what Orpik brought, and is actually a solid puck mover, for 4% of the cap, and everyone wants to jump off a cliff.

I really don't get the extreme reactions, aside from the general negativity associated with the player and all his financial issues.

 

[Rusty Razor]

Would have much rather shelled out the extra million for de Haan now that I see what he got.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't think it's about "fixing" him as much as it is about putting him into a position that maximizes his strengths while neutralizing his weaknesses. I don't think they're going to ask him to do things he's never done before.

Also, just for the record... Trevor Daley was 32 years old when the Penguins acquired him and he was a huge part of the back-to-back.

Daley at least had a track record of being a good player.

Johnson is a bad player who nevertheless does possess some skill (so he's not like...Rob Scuderi or something), but no team has yet been able to successfully tap into that. The Pens hope they can be that team, but I'm very skeptical.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Daley at least had a track record of being a good player.

Johnson is a bad player who nevertheless does possess some skill (so he's not like...Rob Scuderi or something), but no team has yet been able to successfully tap into that. The Pens hope they can be that team, but I'm very skeptical.

I never got the sense that JJ was a "bad" player, he was an effective player in LA, and CBJ had a lot of struggles throughout most of his time there, it wasn't until recently that they are actually a decent team. I know JJ doesn't have great metrics, but it's not like Daley was a top-of-the-line player either.

Funny that you mention Scuderi, because he was traded one-for-one for Daley, so that shows you how much value both of them had before the deal. JJ's current situation is a lot better than what Daley's was when we received him, and that turned out beautifully.

 

[Pancakes]

I never got the sense that JJ was a "bad" player, he was an effective player in LA, and CBJ had a lot of struggles throughout most of his time there, it wasn't until recently that they are actually a decent team. I know JJ doesn't have great metrics, but it's not like Daley was a top-of-the-line player either.

Funny that you mention Scuderi, because he was traded one-for-one for Daley, so that shows you how much value both of them had before the deal. JJ's current situation is a lot better than what Daley's was when we received him, and that turned out beautifully.

I hope it does turn out well. I hope there's something there I'm not seeing.

 

[cheesedanish87]

They have shopped Brassard. I can tell you that much for sure. They had a very competitive package for Skinner that I believe included him, but Carolina appears to be looking for a Kings ransom there.

I'm glad to hear they are shopping Brass.

Playing Brass on the 3rd line is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

 

[mpp9]

They have shopped Brassard. I can tell you that much for sure. They had a very competitive package for Skinner that I believe included him, but Carolina appears to be looking for a Kings ransom there.

Brassard seems like exactly what Carolina could use. Someone who can finish that plays center. Cheap so salary shouldn’t be a concern. If they’re trying to be competitive, a pending UFA shouldn’t scare them off. And like you said, I doubt there isn’t at least a couple nice prospects included in any deal for Skinner.

I wonder why Staal’s name hasn’t come up. Seems like the type of move new ownership would make to put their stamp on the team. Only reason he went there was for Eric.

Staal would be exactly what we need at 3C. And Brassard in a 2C spot for them. I’d sooner add in that type of swap than for Skinner.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't think he went there JUST for Eric.

He wanted to be "more" than a 3C and I suspect continues to think of himself as that way. His name likely hasn't come up because both parties are satisfied with their circumstances.

 

[Brandinho]

Third pairing, short shifts, gratuitous offensive zone starts seems like a recipe for success here.

To be fair, that sounds like a recipe for success for practically any defenseman with a modicum of offensive ability.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I don't think it's about "fixing" him as much as it is about putting him into a position that maximizes his strengths while neutralizing his weaknesses. I don't think they're going to ask him to do things he's never done before.

Also, just for the record... Trevor Daley was 32 years old when the Penguins acquired him and he was a huge part of the back-to-back.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but Daley's other skillset was that he SKATED the puck out of his own end until his knees went bad. That's how you keep possession and that's why the Pens dominated in the 2016 run.

You had good Letang and you had Daley who was perhaps just a smidgen worse than that skating around the opposition on the rush. That's nearly impossible to defend.

Compare that to last season's team and the year prior where Letang was hurt. Well who on that Defense could skate it out? No one. I believe they signed Hunwick as a Daley-lite guy who COULD skate it. And it seemed like he was doing that before he got brained and his season was torpedoed.

Unsure if the coaches recognized the personnel and said: forget it, just pass it up to the forwards. That's why the trap was so effective vs the Pens- gotta have a couple guys who can skate with the puck. Unsure how much JJ likes to do that or not

 

[WayneSid9987]

My view of JJ in CBJ is he got buried and beaten down in a role he's not fully suited for. Put any D in the league in his spot and they probably don't look so hot after 2 to 2 and half seasons of the same usage.
Also now with the extended shifts thing, it adds even more to that.
He'll be fine in PIT with the harder minutes being spread around all 6 defenders and shorter shifts.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The one thing that makes me at least a LITTLE optimistic that JJ can turn it around enough to at least be serviceable here is the fact that John Tortorella has been coaching him the last few years. That's a major, major disadvantage for most.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Daley at least had a track record of being a good player.

Johnson is a bad player who nevertheless does possess some skill (so he's not like...Rob Scuderi or something), but no team has yet been able to successfully tap into that. The Pens hope they can be that team, but I'm very skeptical.

Based on what? Daley's possession stats have been an abortion for his entire career.

I really don't get why people are saying that guys like Daley and Cole are better than Johnson, it's really not based on anything statistically. I think those 3 guys are all around the same level of being #4 defensemen.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

They have shopped Brassard. I can tell you that much for sure. They had a very competitive package for Skinner that I believe included him, but Carolina appears to be looking for a Kings ransom there.

I know you don't want to go into too much detail here, but in the Brass deal did they at least have a plan for another 3C to come over or were they counting on Sheahan stepping in? The young players we'd be including in a "competitive package" concern me too.

 

[Pancakes]

Based on what? Daley's possession stats have been an abortion for his entire career.

I really don't get why people are saying that guys like Daley and Cole are better than Johnson, it's really not based on anything statistically. I think those 3 guys are all around the same level of being #4 defensemen.

They're all about as mediocre honestly. Would you be comfortable giving Daley or Cole a 5 year deal assuming they're the same age as Johnson?

Ah, whatever. What's done is done. My hopes are:

1) Johnson will be less terrible at puck possession if given more favorable matchups/zone starts

2) That he won't age horrendously.