A letter from Louis Leblanc (in french)

Andy

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Jun 26, 2008
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Louis LeBlanc was never very good at any level of hockey after his Midget AAA season. On top of that he lacked the drive and character to succeed. Too bad, he didn't work out. There's nothing else to it.
This is false. He performed at every level after that up until the age of 20. He was the best player on every team he played with in junior, in his first season with the bulldogs he was among their best players by far and did not look out of place in his first stint in the nhl.

Starting in 2012-2013, his career plummeted quickly, but it's incredibly false to say he was never good at any level of hockey after his midget AAA season.

it's funny you mention a supposed lack of drive and character when these were two qualities that were considered pluses for him in his draft year.
 

DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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If i was Louis LeBlanc, start training now and sign a PTO with Laval to start the season...

What do ya got to lose?

You're 28 yrs old..not 36..

Give it one last shot....

His time is done. He's out of practice, and he's accumulated injuries. He's better off pursuing other options.
 

DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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Really funny to hear people bring up Anaheim...as if the damage done was supposed to just magically disappear.
Again, I use Tinordi as another example. Personally, I think he probably would have never amounted to much of anything at NHL level, but I can also say giving him the impression like he needs to stick up for everyone and fight enforcers like Pedan was incredibly stupid. People believe Komi losing to Lucic set him back, well dang, Pedan destroyed Tinordi in a stupid set up pointless fight. How come Tinordi even remotely entertained the idea of needing to do this? Goes to show you the responsibilities or directions he felt was on his shoulders. Our coaches should have made it clear to him right off the bat that fighting is nowhere near being a priority or even a responsibility of his. Forget fighting, focus on your positioning on defense, forget about having to crush everyone who goes in your corner or down the boards, pay attention to your stick work and moving the puck.
And then, let's assume he'd recover a bit from that....how do you keep a prospect, any prospect, as a healthy scratch here for 3 months.
I don't give a crap how bad you think he was, it doesn't excuse the incredibly stupid decisions we took.

It's no different with LL. It's pretty irrelevant how bad you think he was, it doesn't excuse to piss poor job we did managing this asset.

Back in the period 2008-2012 or so, Chara, Lucic, Pronger, etc were terrorizing the Eastern Conference. The Habs 1st line was called the Hobbit line. It's not surprising that the Habs tried to draft size. They wanted players who could fight and play and the idea was that this would make the team tougher.

Nowadays, retroactive clairvoyants say that "the NHL was moving towards speed", but I don't recall many saying that back in 2010. In fact I only recall one person saying that.
 

Andy

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Back in the period 2008-2012 or so, Chara, Lucic, Pronger, etc were terrorizing the Eastern Conference. The Habs 1st line was called the Hobbit line. It's not surprising that the Habs tried to draft size. They wanted players who could fight and play and the idea was that this would make the team tougher.

Nowadays, retroactive clairvoyants say that "the NHL was moving towards speed", but I don't recall many saying that back in 2010. In fact I only recall one person saying that.
I recall reading an article back in the day where it was claimed that Gainey and Gauthier believed that the nhl was moving towards more of a speed game after the 2004-2005 lockout season and it's subsequent rule changes. This is was claimed to be one of the reasons they were overlooking size and going for players with good foot speed.

Whether this was true or not, the idea of the nhl moving towards speed was definitely brought up a few times almost a decade ago. I think it was most present in the "teams need PMDs" crowd that was pushing for this type of defenders since 2011-2012.

The beginnings of a culture change in hockey was pretty apparent 10 years. It coincided with the "fighters are useless, get a 4th line that can actually skate and play hockey" crowd.
 

Harry Kakalovich

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This is false. He performed at every level after that up until the age of 20. He was the best player on every team he played with in junior, in his first season with the bulldogs he was among their best players by far and did not look out of place in his first stint in the nhl.

Starting in 2012-2013, his career plummeted quickly, but it's incredibly false to say he was never good at any level of hockey after his midget AAA season.

it's funny you mention a supposed lack of drive and character when these were two qualities that were considered pluses for him in his draft year.
No he was below a point a game in NCAA - he was barely a point a game in the Q as a 19 year old and then below a point a game in the Q playoffs.

You are telling me this is very good performance? If you think it is, you are wrong.
 

Harry Kakalovich

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This is false. He performed at every level after that up until the age of 20. He was the best player on every team he played with in junior, in his first season with the bulldogs he was among their best players by far and did not look out of place in his first stint in the nhl.

Starting in 2012-2013, his career plummeted quickly, but it's incredibly false to say he was never good at any level of hockey after his midget AAA season.

it's funny you mention a supposed lack of drive and character when these were two qualities that were considered pluses for him in his draft year.
And did not look out if place on a very bad NHL team where he looked like he could maybe someday be a 3rd or 4th liner.

Except when he was groomed to be a 3rd or 4th liner he threw a hissy fit and got his gf to write negative things on her twitter account.

And yeah scouts said he had top character, but others questioned his drive because both his parents were professors and not accustomed to the athletic lifestyle and sacrifices. But we don't have to go by 10 year old accounts, because Louis LeBlanc quit hockey when he was 25.

I don't hate the kid. Guys bust all the time. But he never had any kind of breakthrough year that showed a bunch of promise.
 

Andy

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No he was below a point a game in NCAA - he was barely a point a game in the Q as a 19 year old and then below a point a game in the Q playoffs.

You are telling me this is very good performance? If you think it is, you are wrong.
Leblanc was pretty much as productive as Pacioretty as a 17 year in the USHL - in fact he had far more goals than Pacioretty did at the same age in the same league and was only 4 points less productive, which is completely marginal. On that club, he had 28 goals, tied for most on that team. He also them in points as a 17. He did the same the following year in Havard on what was a bad team.

Also, if I recall correctly, the Montreal Juniors weren't a particularly good club despite making the POs, and he was far an away their best player. He had the team's best PPG average. The poster @montreal can speak more to his performance on this club.

He also was a PPG at the World Juniors. He was one Hamilton's best players in his rookie year with the club.

The fact is, you're completely wrong about Leblanc's post AAA performances.
 
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Andy

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And did not look out if place on a very bad NHL team where he looked like he could maybe someday be a 3rd or 4th liner.

Except when he was groomed to be a 3rd or 4th liner he threw a hissy fit and got his gf to write negative things on her twitter account.

And yeah scouts said he had top character, but others questioned his drive because both his parents were professors and not accustomed to the athletic lifestyle and sacrifices. But we don't have to go by 10 year old accounts, because Louis LeBlanc quit hockey when he was 25.

I don't hate the kid. Guys bust all the time. But he never had any kind of breakthrough year that showed a bunch of promise.
This is much different than saying he showed nothing after his midget AAA season. That's completely false.
 

Garo

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No he was below a point a game in NCAA - he was barely a point a game in the Q as a 19 year old and then below a point a game in the Q playoffs.

You are telling me this is very good performance? If you think it is, you are wrong.

He was first in scoring for his NCAA team as one of the youngest players on the team. The only other teenager close to him was Alex Killorn, who's now a reliable top 9 player for the best team in the league. His Q year was meh, but the Juniors had no dominant scorer to begin with, and Leblanc was first in PPG, while also going PPG in the U-20, behind only Schenn, Ellis and Johansen in scoring for Canada. None of that screams anything worrying, especially for someone who was never a slam dunk superstar prospect.
 

Harry Kakalovich

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Leblanc was pretty much as productive as Pacioretty as a 17 year in the USHL - in fact he had far more goals than Pacioretty did at the same age in the same league and was only 4 points less productive, which is completely marginal. On that club, he had 28 goals, tied for most on that team. He also them in points as a 17. He did the same the following year in Havard on what was a bad team.

Also, if I recall correctly, the Montreal Juniors weren't a particularly good club despite making the POs, and he was far an away their best player. The poster @montreal can speak more to this.

He also was a PPG at the World Juniors.

The fact is, you're completely wrong about Leblanc's post AAA performances.

No I'm not - he never produced like a future top-6 player after his draft year.

Now he produced enough to show potential, like his year at Harvard you could say well .66 ppg could become 1.something by his senior season or before. But his ppg was never that of a future top-6 player after his draft year.

He always looked OK - never did he produce at a fantastic rate.
 

Harry Kakalovich

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He was first in scoring for his NCAA team as one of the youngest players on the team. The only other teenager close to him was Alex Killorn, who's now a reliable top 9 player for the best team in the league. His Q year was meh, but the Juniors had no dominant scorer to begin with, and Leblanc was first in PPG, while also going PPG in the U-20, behind only Schenn, Ellis and Johansen in scoring for Canada. None of that screams anything worrying, especially for someone who was never a slam dunk superstar prospect.

True not worrying, but not superstar either. He was always doing OK - never phenomenal
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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The weird thing about Louis was that he was always the best player on his teams in junior, performed pretty well in the ahl and the nhl in his rookie seasons in both leagues. He didn't look out of place at the nhl level with the habs. In fact, that year in the ahl, he was one of the team's better players.

The following season, it all went downhill very quickly after a few years of steady and good progression. Something happened. Who's to blame, I don't know, but it's odd to see someone fall off that quickly and after such steady progress.

He got injured in a useless fight against a Marlies D-Men and it went all downhill from there. Along with the issues mentionned earlier.

Leblanc was obviously not becoming a star, but after his first pro season, a very realistic projection was something like Lehkonen.

I think another thing that hindered Leblanc is that he never gained the 15-or-so pounds he was probably expected to gain. It'S okay to be a pipsqueak if you're, like, Elias Petterson, or if you can skate really quickly like Paul Byron. Leblanc was a smart player, but he wasn't god-like skilled nor extremely fast.
 
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Harry Kakalovich

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This is much different than saying he showed nothing after his midget AAA season. That's completely false.
Only that's not what I said. I said he was never very good. He was always pretty good, or just OK. He was promising. But in midget AAA he was very good. Like top of the league good.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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If i was Louis LeBlanc, start training now and sign a PTO with Laval to start the season...

What do ya got to lose?

You're 28 yrs old..not 36..

Give it one last shot....

At this point... he's probably much better off working his way in diverse spheres of management.
 

Garo

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True not worrying, but not superstar either. He was always doing OK - never phenomenal

He was never supposed to be a superstar though, we're talking about a midround pick here that was comfortably slotting as the team's top player two years after his draft year, while being one of the best producers as a rookie in the AHL after. I mentioned Killorn as a guy he was a step ahead at the time, and I don't think anyone would have realistically complained if Leblanc turned out to be that kind of player for the Habs right now.

I just don't agree that the problems really started there to be honest, there's little evidence based on looking at the stats, the circumstances at the time and I guess what I remember from then. Leblanc was a perfectly fine prospect until the lockout, with way less warning signs than some busts from that era.
 
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Harry Kakalovich

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He was never supposed to be a superstar though, we're talking about a midround pick here that was comfortably slotting as the team's top player two years after his draft year, while being one of the best producers as a rookie in the AHL after. I mentioned Killorn as a guy he was a step ahead at the time, and I don't think anyone would have realistically complained if Leblanc turned out to be that kind of player for the Habs right now.

I just don't agree that the problems really started there to be honest, there's little evidence based on looking at the stats, the circumstances at the time and I guess what I remember from then. Leblanc was a perfectly fine prospect until the lockout, with way less warning signs than some busts from that era.

I'm not understanding your point. My point is that his stats never showed that he was a sure thing. I totally agree that it looked like he could have been a 3rd liner, but judging from the fact that he quit hockey at 25 and never seemed very happy in that role, I guess that wasn't what he wanted.

Killorn is a great example of a guy who bucked a lot of odds because he never quit. If you look at Leblanc's production in his different leagues, I am betting you find lots of guys who produced similarly and didn't become NHLers. Add to that the fact that he quit when he was 25, and you've got Louis Leblanc.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

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Louis LeBlanc was never very good at any level of hockey after his Midget AAA season. On top of that he lacked the drive and character to succeed. Too bad, he didn't work out. There's nothing else to it.

LMAO. Pro management type putting the blame on the player, how typical.

So how do you know it's lack of drive and character, mr expert psychologist? Let me offer a world of possibilities where the bias of your ego doesn't obtusely define reality;

One fact is known is that he went to Harvard knowing full well that it could be detrimental to his hockey development. What does that tell you about his values? Maybe he sees more worth in accomplishing other things. Maybe he came to a point where he realized that what he would have to endure both physically and emotionally was not worth seeking fame and social status, which are not about character like is so romantically thought, but more that one side is passion, and the other side is pride and ego and the need for social recognition and validation. It actually takes character to see past this silly need of the ego for validation and seeking social status to enhance or to act as an effegy of your self-worth. One needs emotional maturity to see past these needs of the human ego and find self-worth in what fundamentaly defines humans apart from all other creatures, we are the greatest social creatures on this planet, and when your social values are well developed, these silly needs of the ego are understood for what they are and you then find self-worth in what truly matters; social connections. One needs a whole lot of emotional and rational empathy to inhibit his own ego from following foolish and prideful desires.
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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Back in the period 2008-2012 or so, Chara, Lucic, Pronger, etc were terrorizing the Eastern Conference. The Habs 1st line was called the Hobbit line. It's not surprising that the Habs tried to draft size. They wanted players who could fight and play and the idea was that this would make the team tougher.

Nowadays, retroactive clairvoyants say that "the NHL was moving towards speed", but I don't recall many saying that back in 2010. In fact I only recall one person saying that.
Your memory is failing you mate. Discussions of a move away from physicality and fighting started before then, back to when we picked up Gomez, Gionta and Cammy. Acutally, that's probably when the discussions about this were the most heated. I was heavily invested in those debates and the one point I agreed with was that if we're going to have some plugs like Andreas Engqvist on the 4th line, then might as well get more aggressive guys or even an enforcer. This carried through to the Bergevin era where many were very disappointed with the Murray+Parros signings. Again, so many heated debates with the likes of SouthernHabs over it and how stupid it was. I, and others, argued how we should be focusing on skills and puck moving abilities, noticing how teams that have moved towards skilled 4th lines/bottom pairs instead of the old school big bruising bullies are at a much bigger advantage. MM had brought up how we should have signed Gilbert instead of Murray, and he was 100% right on that.

So..ya...those discussions were definitely on. This isn't revisionist history at all.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with them drafting Tinordi in 2010. I don't even have an issue with them asking him to bulk up and try to impose himself physically, but there's a way to go about it. First, you need to develop your skills, not the other way around, and you also don't go fight any enforcer.
 

Kriss E

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Yakupov went to Russia ..to get better...
20 goals in 42 games so far...and to boot he's a +19...that wasn't that way in the NHL...(Edmonton -33-35 etc)

I think will see him return to NHL...
Let's see. Not sure who's going to take a chance on him. Plenty of guys score well in the KHL and don't crossover, or do well when they do.
Scoring 20G in the KHL is more comparable to scoring 20 in the AHL than anything to do with the NHL.
 

Kriss E

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BS just a bad draft pick and so was Tinordi. There were warning signs before both were drafted. The damage done statement is a joke and amusing. Really that fragile? There are numerous examples of guys being stuck in a teams minor league system that persevere and have long careers elsewhere. This is just another example of a first rounder not working out, it’s called a bust and happens every draft. Simply, not every guy makes it for a variety of reasons.
There are warning signs for every prospect drafted out of a top 5 pick. Heck, some top 3 still have warning signs.
That ain't an argument.

No, there is nothing amusing about it and yes it happens. If you think LL and Tinordi are guys who were absolutely not damanged by their development at all, then name me a player who you think saw his career go down the drain because of how he was terribly handled as a prospect?
 

Harry Kakalovich

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LMAO. Pro management type putting the blame on the player, how typical.

So how do you know it's lack of drive and character, mr expert psychologist? Let me offer a world of possibilities where the bias of your ego doesn't obtusely define reality;

One fact is known is that he went to Harvard knowing full well that it could be detrimental to his hockey development. What does that tell you about his values? Maybe he sees more worth in accomplishing other things. Maybe he came to a point where he realized that what he would have to endure both physically and emotionally was not worth seeking fame and social status, which are not about character like is so romantically thought, but more that one side is passion, and the other side is pride and ego and the need for social recognition and validation. It actually takes character to see past this silly need of the ego for validation and seeking social status to enhance or to act as an effegy of your self-worth. One needs emotional maturity to see past these needs of the human ego and find self-worth in what fundamentaly defines humans apart from all other creatures, we are the greatest social creatures on this planet, and when your social values are well developed, these silly needs of the ego are understood for what they are and you then find self-worth in what truly matters; social connections. One needs a whole lot of emotional and rational empathy to inhibit his own ego from following foolish and prideful desires.


Ah I see what you are saying... Ok he lacked drive to become a pro hockey player. And we all know that because he quit at age 25.

And by the way, talking condescendingly to me on a message board is pretty much prick move. Why don't you stick to your point rather than insulting and denigrating people you don't know.
 

Harry Kakalovich

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Sep 26, 2002
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LMAO. Pro management type putting the blame on the player, how typical.

So how do you know it's lack of drive and character, mr expert psychologist? Let me offer a world of possibilities where the bias of your ego doesn't obtusely define reality;

One fact is known is that he went to Harvard knowing full well that it could be detrimental to his hockey development. What does that tell you about his values? Maybe he sees more worth in accomplishing other things. Maybe he came to a point where he realized that what he would have to endure both physically and emotionally was not worth seeking fame and social status, which are not about character like is so romantically thought, but more that one side is passion, and the other side is pride and ego and the need for social recognition and validation. It actually takes character to see past this silly need of the ego for validation and seeking social status to enhance or to act as an effegy of your self-worth. One needs emotional maturity to see past these needs of the human ego and find self-worth in what fundamentaly defines humans apart from all other creatures, we are the greatest social creatures on this planet, and when your social values are well developed, these silly needs of the ego are understood for what they are and you then find self-worth in what truly matters; social connections. One needs a whole lot of emotional and rational empathy to inhibit his own ego from following foolish and prideful desires.

Also putting people into boxes, calling someone a pro management type, or any kind of "type", it's the root of racism and prejudice. People have all sorts of opinions. I don't know you, but the way you are writing you come across very close minded. I get that you want to divide this message board into two forces, one being pro-management and another being anti-management, which presumably is your "side," but that's not reality, and it will come across as alienating to a lot of people if you try to pin them down into one box or another. IMO I think you should try to see other people's opinions outside of those boxes that you have created in your mind. Take care buddy.
 

montreal

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No, he's really not. Louis sucked worse than McCarron and that's saying something.

McCarron - NHL - 69-2-6-8
Leblanc - NHL - 50-5-5-10

Louis LeBlanc was never very good at any level of hockey after his Midget AAA season. On top of that he lacked the drive and character to succeed. Too bad, he didn't work out. There's nothing else to it.

That's not true. How did he get named Rookie of the year at 17 and in the Ivy league at 18? Wouldn't logic say you would have to be at least pretty good to be the top rookie in the league or conference (though the Ivy league isn't it's own conference)

No he was below a point a game in NCAA - he was barely a point a game in the Q as a 19 year old and then below a point a game in the Q playoffs.

You are telling me this is very good performance? If you think it is, you are wrong.

Spoke like someone that doesn't know what they are talking about. I'll never understand this, I've been at HF for a long time and it's always been this way, while people that don't know what they are talking about feel they need to have such a strong opinion.

How many games did you see him at Havard, or in the USHL? Also it's not the points you should be looking at it's the context. Havard was terrible that year they won 9 games all season, Leblanc led the team in goals with 11 as an 18 year old while playing in a league were the average age is over 21. They were a very young team, only Leblanc and 2 other players had more then 7 goals on the season.

Also how many 18 year olds do you see leading their team in scoring in the NCAA?
 
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Grate n Colorful Oz

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@Ozymandias ,

If we can raise the level of discussion for a bit,

I recall a clever saying that I read years ago. It went something along the lines of "when everyone's environment is the same, all variations are genetic. When everyone's genes are the same, all variations are environmental."

But this is actually where I fundamentally disagree. Warning, im gonna digress big time here...; Humanity is in its adolescent stage. Generally, we majorily see everything from the perspective of the ego. We have a serious disregard for social cohesion and social needs. We have replaced religious destiny with genetic destiny. From the infancy of imagination (religion, santa clause), to the self-realization and self-discovery of the most independant stage of our growth, adolescence, where creativity is at its highest (our present culture), where we discover ourselves the most (present day biology), where become the most independant (neoliberalism) because we're at a stage where individuation is at its highest. It's also the age at which we can have the most disregard for our own safety, where we are most likely to become self-destructive, now doesn't that sound all too familiar in relation to our times? And this is fundamentally shown in how the scientific community is obessed in defining our biology as the starting point and denying the very obvious and simple fact that environment is the starting point. RNA was created through the environment. It's a continuum, a process that has always been ongoing, from one organism to the next. It's not just DNA. It's DNA AND this electro-chemical self-organized process, ramping up over time. A process in which we are entirely dependant on our environment, there's no biology without the symbiotic link to environment. What happens when we truly reach adulthood? We become emotionally mature enough (generally speaking) to raise another human being. That demands a better understanding of what you are and your link to your entire environment. When you really become mature, you understand the tiny nature of our existence and the foolishness of our self-aggrandization as sentient beings. When we reach adulthood, we have a better understanding of our own inherent dependance of basic needs that if not met, your biology will falter. We are slaves to our basic needs and our basic needs are met throught the environment, and not having those needs met can lead to a host of detrimental problems that become cyclical and further impact the overall development of fellow beings. As a society, we are not there yet. We're at an age at the end of adolescence where we are trying to balance out needs, merits, capabilities and self-cohesion. What is needed to nurture growth, that's where we need to go as a civilization. That's where we lack the most. That's why I will constantly stress the importance of creating better environments. It's what we need to mature to as a civilization and there is a commonality, a universality to this need. A commonality found even in pro sports, where teens are taken at a time where their brain has not fully matured, so fundamentally, it comes down to what you have already said (i think it was you), you can't change someone's biology, but can only try to do the best with what is already there and try to work on what isn't. I mean, isn't that the whole point of development?

So what is my expectation, well for starters, we're not in 1980. Neither are we in 2000. We're 30 years past the birth of modern day neurobiology. We're starting to have a preeeetty good idea of some fundamental and basic things about ourselves. Things that should irradicate old traditions, ideas, ideals and POVs. What I expect is that players are nurtured and considered as what they are, a human being that doesn't have its whole brain wired yet. The power that lies in understanding the possibilities this can lead through might be key for certain teams to meet higher standards than others.


We live in some sort of hybrid world (I assume), but there can be a limit to how much environmental manipulation and intervention we can expect. It is certainly the case that hockey is not exhausting its potential talent pool, but there is a limit to what teams can expect to do. Changing a 19 year-old is more difficult than changing a 3 year-old, and moreover, the science on gene-environment interactions is not complete. The teams do not have a complete understanding of the best way to optimize every player, which is separate from them not necessarily having the means to.

How much intervention can we legitimately expect? A lot of your posts in this thread are kind of stating the obvious, as you're arguing against some completely insane opinions. But that's not necessarily a path for you to converge to enlightenment and truth.

As an example, it seems obvious to me that the best way to nurture hockey IQ is to dole out ice time. More game time equals more hockey IQ development. But, there's only so much ice time to go around. If one forward gets 22 minutes a game, then you ave another forward playing 7 minutes a game, or two forwards playing 11:30 a game (etc.).

Leblanc might have had confidence issues. How can a coaching and development staff reasonably help with a player's confidence?


There's always more that can be done. And I think it is obvious that some of the people that were put in place are far from the greatest at knowing how to nurutre players of all types.
 
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