Player Discussion #93 - Sam Bennett

[Nanuuk]

It may be time to give Benny another look at centre. I don't believe he will succeed the way we want him to playing LW with Jankowski. Or Backlund. Or Ryan. He'll need a creative centre to succeed at LW such as Lindholm, Dube, or perhaps Czarnik. As other have pointed out, Benny is a north/south kind of guy and a lot of times doesn't seem to know what to do with the puck in close quarters. I've enjoyed watching so far this season and he always seems to be on the cusp of breaking out. It is very frustrating. So, assuming he can be defensively responsible at C, turn him into a shooter and net front presence a la Monahan. Give him creative wingers that can feed him the puck.

Thought du jour (I'm always thinking, not always right though!)

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm
Neal/Bennett/Czarnik or Bennett/Czarnick/Neal
Tkachuk/Backlund/Frolik
Dube/Jankowski/Ryan

 

[Janks]

It's going to come soon for Bennett. I just don't think it's going to work out if Ryan or Jankowski are centering him. Let him play with Czarnik and Frolik if he won't get a look in the top 6

100% this. Janks and Ryan play to slow to help him. He ends up doing everything because he comes in with speed and his line doesn’t keep up or changes off. He needs to play with skilled players who have speed and he will be fine. There’s a reason he looks better with Johnny, Monahan, Backs, Chucky, Fro, etc.

 

[Volica]

Fair enough, I didn't watch last night. Though like Jankowski, I don't think Ryan's much of a line-driver and he seems to get knocked pretty easily along the boards. I like Czarnik because he's a burner and a monster on the forecheck...Byron-like

I think Ryan meshes well with Benny and Frolik.
Frolik is tenacious and a puck hound. Benny is kind of the same way. Ryan is a fast enough player that he can simply be a good outlet on that line to make it work. Know what I mean?

I'd be perfectly fine with giving Bennett Centre duties and having a Frolik - Bennett - Czarnik line too.

 

[Mobiandi]

I think Ryan meshes well with Benny and Frolik.
Frolik is tenacious and a puck hound. Benny is kind of the same way. Ryan is a fast enough player that he can simply be a good outlet on that line to make it work. Know what I mean?

I'd be perfectly fine with giving Bennett Centre duties and having a Frolik - Bennett - Czarnik line too.

I think at some point, it might be worth exploring Bennett at center again. Frolik-Bennett-Czarnik could be quite good as Frolik is a hell of a middle 6er and Czarnik is one of those guys that could "pop" with Bennett.

Bennett's also underrated when it comes to faceoffs, and we all know how much Peters stresses the importance of winning faceoffs

 

[Volica]

I think at some point, it might be worth exploring Bennett at center again. Frolik-Bennett-Czarnik could be quite good as Frolik is a hell of a middle 6er and Czarnik is one of those guys that could "pop" with Bennett.

Bennett's also underrated when it comes to faceoffs, and we all know how much Peters stresses the importance of winning faceoffs

I was in the bandwagon of 'who cares about faceoffs' but honestly, it's nice to start with the puck a lot

 

[FerklundCGY]

He did this last season as well. His rookie season he was also really high up in IHDCF, I wonder if he'll be like Meier or Hertl and eventually breakthrough or if hes a player who gets lots of chances and is never going to finish them.

His rookie season was very strong in terms of iSCF (132) and iHDCF (64), followed by a very poor sophomore season (113 iSCF & 50 iHDCF), followed by a very strong bounce back (164 iSCF & 75 iHDCF) that was defeated by very poor puck luck.

Bennett has had 1 season where his results basically matched his scoring chance rates (his rookie season) and 1 season where his results were insanely lower than his scoring chance rates would indicate (last season) so he's currently batting 50%.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I was in the bandwagon of 'who cares about faceoffs' but honestly, it's nice to start with the puck a lot

I couldn't give a damn about a faceoff but if it means Bennett gets to play center or take on key situations on special teams:

whoo Faceoffs! rawrrr! I tied you up longer than you tied me up until the guy in the stands decided to said I won the faceoff!!!

 

[chunkylover53]

Yes I think it's better to have Bennett at centre with guys like Neal, Fro, Czar then being centre by guys like Jank and Ryan.

He's been really unlucky and the underlying numbers say he's an effective player but the scoresheet hasn't been there yet.

 

[Rubi]

Poor Bennett.

LOL... Connor McDavid is in 77th place on that list.

Garbage in = Garbage out. This is just a meaningless mathematical stat that has absolutely no correlation to the real world.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Poor Bennett.

Funny thing is, if his xGoals says he should have four goals, my eyes say he should have five because some stupid referee whistles have robbed him of two goals and Frederik Andersen made an incredible save on him a couple games ago. If he keeps this up I think he'll catch his xGoals.

 

[DFF]

LOL... Connor McDavid is in 77th place on that list.

Garbage in = Garbage out. This is just a meaningless mathematical stat that has absolutely no correlation to the real world.

Any scoring stats that has Matthews next to Crouse can be taken seriously?

 

[Anglesmith]

If a player consistently gets fewer goals and points than your algorithm "expects," it starts to point to an issue in the algorithm.

Scoring goals is a skill, and it's one Bennett can improve on.

 

[FerklundCGY]

LOL... Connor McDavid is in 77th place on that list.

Garbage in = Garbage out. This is just a meaningless mathematical stat that has absolutely no correlation to the real world.

Any scoring stats that has Matthews next to Crouse can be taken seriously?

It's not all that hard to understand.

Skilled players tend to score above their ixGF whether it be their shot quality (Matthews, Laine, Ovechkin, Monahan, etc..) or their insane speed (McDavid, Larkin, Athanasiou) among other things while players like Bennett (who have the ability to create and/or get into areas on the ice that provides them with great scoring chances but don't have as great a shot or speed as the top players in the game) finish much more in line with their ixGF.

Shot Quality And Expected Goals: Part I | Corsica

You guys are just looking at the surface of these analytical statistics when there's so much more to it which is understandable but if you want to learn more about these types of analytics and how they reach these final numbers before coming at me with needless remarks, that would make these discussions much better.

If a player consistently gets fewer goals and points than your algorithm "expects," it starts to point to an issue in the algorithm.

Scoring goals is a skill, and it's one Bennett can improve on.

Like I pointed above, there's much more to it than that but even then, that's not the case with Bennett.

In Bennett's rookie season (132 iSCF, 64 iHDCF), he had an ixGF of 10.66. He finished with 14.

In Bennett's sophomore season (113 iSCF, 50 iHDCF), he had an ixGF of 9.88. He finished with 8.

Last season (164 iSCF, 75 iHDCF), he had an ixGF of 15.01. He finished with 10.

Bennett's career ixGF is 35.33. He currently has 32 career goals. So Bennett hasn't "consistently" scored fewer goals than the algorithm expects.

In total, we have 1 season (rookie season) where Bennett outperformed his ixGF (his SH% of 13.2% that season remains his highest to date), 1 season (sophomore season) where Bennett was legitimately bad and performed in line with expectations, and 1 season (last season) where Bennett was actually fantastic offensively but suffered a career low SH% of 7.0% (career average of 10%) and a career low oiSH% of 5.6% (career average of 7.0%).

 

[DFF]

First, let me say I love Sam Bennett. He is easily in the top 10 most valuable Flames.

BUT...I think the day of him becoming a top 6 scorer is over. He will never be in the company of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan and Lindholm

Bennett has as good a season he can possibly have so far and he still has 2 goals/4 points.

That's not top 6 production.

But I am just happy to have him on the team.

BTW, sure look at all the advanced stats you want. Production count.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Sam does many things very, very well. His overall awareness looks much better this season, his simplified his game which has really helped. Where he struggles is where Tkachuk thrives, when he has the puck in and around the net, he handles the puck like a hot potato. He either fires the puck into a defender or a crowd, or he loses it on the way to the net. I think this accurately explains his poor puck luck. If he could ever improve on this, he could still be that scorer.

He needs to learn to hang onto the puck a little longer. He needs more patience to make that extra move to allow things to open up for him, and wait for the scoring opportunity to open up. It’s frustrating because he’s so close and you see these flashes, but it’s uncertain if that will ever happen. He is sure a nice player to have on the team though, his work ethic is infectious.

 

[Sparky93]

First, let me say I love Sam Bennett. He is easily in the top 10 most valuable Flames.

BUT...I think the day of him becoming a top 6 scorer is over. He will never be in the company of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan and Lindholm

Bennett has as good a season he can possibly have so far and he still has 2 goals/4 points.

That's not top 6 production.

But I am just happy to have him on the team.

BTW, sure look at all the advanced stats you want. Production count.

He’s looked better and has cut down on the bad penalties. That being said, he still makes bad decisions with the puck, looks really light on his skates and lacks the vision to be a playmaker. He’s a tenacious, complimentary player, with a good forecheck, and I’d be happy if he could become a 40 point guy, some day.

I wouldn’t mind trying Neal on the top line, with a 3rd line of Bennett-Lindholm-Czarnik

 

[Nanuuk]

Sam does many things very, very well. His overall awareness looks much better this season, his simplified his game which has really helped. Where he struggles is where Tkachuk thrives, when he has the puck in and around the net, he handles the puck like a hot potato. He either fires the puck into a defender or a crowd, or he loses it on the way to the net. I think this accurately explains his poor puck luck. If he could ever improve on this, he could still be that scorer.

He needs to learn to hang onto the puck a little longer. He needs more patience to make that extra move to allow things to open up for him, and wait for the scoring opportunity to open up. It’s frustrating because he’s so close and you see these flashes, but it’s uncertain if that will ever happen. He is sure a nice player to have on the team though, his work ethic is infectious.

Sam thinks too much when the puck is on his stick. And that slight hesitation, do I pass or shoot, is holding him back. A defender will get his stick in the way of a shot or strip him of the puck. I think he needs patience, yes, but also has to be more instinctive.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Bennett has been much better this season, and if he never does find a scoring touch in the NHL I don't think it's the end of the world. There's also significant potential for him to be a relatively low cost two-way player who can win the possession battle against mid/lower-range NHLers and has some bite to his game. Kind of a Glencross 2.0. It's not what you hope for when you pick a guy 4th overall, but it's not the worst outcome.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Sam thinks too much when the puck is on his stick. And that slight hesitation, do I pass or shoot, is holding him back. A defender will get his stick in the way of a shot or strip him of the puck. I think he needs patience, yes, but also has to be more instinctive.

In terms of a one time situation, I would agree. But when he’s carrying the puck to or around the net, he does not have the calmness of a Gaudreau or Tkachuk, heck even of a Monahan. He typically fires the puck into traffic for a very low percentage play. He should mould his game after Tkachuk, he would be a beast.

 

[Mr Snrub]

I think with Bennett at this point, what you see is what you get. After this contract is up his role can pretty easily be filled by guys with legitimate top six potential who are on their ELC. Hell, by next year, Hathaway will probably be a decent Bennett replacement.

Sucks that he couldn't figure it out at the NHL level but you've gotta let bygones be bygones at this point. Every other bottom-sixer in the NHL can basically play to Bennett's level and essentially replicate his game. Not worth holding onto, the upside is just flat out not there.

 

[CraigsList]

I still think Sam B has the top 6 potential, just wont be here.

 

[Calculon]

Bennett is one of the few physical forwards the Flames have in their entire system. A genuine spark plug capable of standing up for his teammates and turning momentum around with a single hit. And yes, he still has offensive upside; with some actual luck he'd have double the amount of points.

Unless he asks for a trade, I can't see why the Flames would trade him. It's not like he'd be too expensive to re-sign.

 

[Janks]

Hell, by next year, Hathaway will probably be a decent Bennett replacement.

I usually agree with your points, but what the actual f*** man. That’s totally garbage

 

[Mr Snrub]

I usually agree with your points, but what the actual **** man. That’s totally garbage

By next year you don't think Hath can threaten for 25 points over 82 games, while answering the bell when need be and playing a pretty average defensive game? Because that's about all Bennett does at this point.

I would obviously agree that Bennett has more skill than Hathaway but the fact that he has no hockey IQ or idea what to do past the offensive blueline nulls whatever part of his offensive game is still high-end. Bennett is likely a better player than Hathaway in theory, but their net product on the ice is pretty close, and I see no reason why Hath can't reach where Bennett is now by next year.

 

[Janks]

By next year you don't think Hath can threaten for 25 points over 82 games, while answering the bell when need be and playing a pretty average defensive game? Because that's about all Bennett does at this point.

I would obviously agree that Bennett has more skill than Hathaway but the fact that he has no hockey IQ or idea what to do past the offensive blueline nulls whatever part of his offensive game is still high-end. Bennett is likely a better player than Hathaway in theory, but their net product on the ice is pretty close, and I see no reason why Hath can't reach where Bennett is now by next year.

Dude, just stop. Hathaway has 23 points in over 100 games, which means Bennett has outscored him each season he’s played. Full stop.

Bennett shows skill and isn’t a 4th line grinder. Just because he hasn’t put it all together doesn’t mean he’s a bust or has peaked. You’d have to be completely delusional to think Hath is anything more than an energy guy.