OT: 85th Obsequious Banter Thread: Pelle Lindbergh Memorial Thread

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BringBackHakstol

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*Raises Hand*

I am my mid 30s (35), worked at my former school district for 10+ years (13) and did rather well for myself while ending up in the IT part of the education world. I went from a teacher to the Director of Technology and I made very good money with phenomenal benefits (including a pension). From about 2018 on things have been nuts. The job definitely stuck on my mind 24/7 (that has more to do with my OCD and Anxiety disorder though) and I was working 100+ hours a week for about 2 years straight. It was 100% having an effect on my personal life and overall well being. I developed at heart condition where the stress was causing parts of my heart chamber to fire when they weren't supposed to.

The only job I applied for during that time period was to be the Education Director at the Franklin Institute because I thought it would be fun. Never heard back.

I also was doing consulting as a side hustle, which I ended up needing to turn down a bunch of side hustle jobs during Covid because I was working around the clock where I was.

So I'd say I identify with your situation, almost as if I wrote it myself.

My advice would be to figure out where you want to spend your "stress dollars". My position allowed me to have a huge impact in the world of education on a community, but it was also filled with a bunch of stuff I have no interest in. I spent hours learning about cyber security and countless meetings going over the replacement cycles of servers, APs, switches, and devices. It was interesting to learn about, but I wasn't anywhere close to the classroom and learning environments. On most days, the most interaction I had with the learning process was investigating insane things kid's looked up via accounts.

I decided that I wasn't going to spend my stress dollars doing that anymore. I approached our Superintendent and told him about where I was. He wanted me to stay, so we came up with other options for me in the system. I tried one for a year and just recently resigned entirely. Despite moving away from the "top" position, I was still brought into everything I was doing before. I'd never be able to avoid those situations in that school district, so the only thing to do was leave.

Financially, personally, and professionally, I ended up in a weird spot. Everything happened pretty fast, but the housing market being the way it is allowed me to sell my house for way more money than I bought it three years ago. I also had a 2nd house that I own with my dad at the beach, so I had somewhere to live without needing to reinvest that money. I made a few spreadsheets to figure out expenses and stuff based on my savings and the potential sale price of the house, I pulled the trigger.

I resigned from my position, started my own consulting business to do that full time, and I also live at the beach full time. I like to think I essentially traded years 20 -35 for the next few years to do what I really want to do. I worked really hard over those 15 years and made a lot of sacrifices, but it is paying off now.


So that very long story leads to this, as someone who went through pretty much exactly the same thing:

1. Figure out what you want to do any why you want to do it. What do you want to spend your "stress dollars" on?

2. Is that possible where you currently work? Are there other directions or projects you can work on in that organization to fulfill what you want to do and why you want to do it?

3. Figure out finances and try to find other options to live and make money. If you cash everything out, how long could you make it with making 0 dollars?

4. What jobs would you be willing to do in the meantime? It got to the point where I would be happier working at Wawa than where I was. I also know that I can be a substitute teacher anywhere to make some extra cash. There is a university near by where I can do some adjunct work. Worst case scenario, I ended up teaching at a local school district, which would be more fun and fulfilling than what I was doing.

I looked at the answers to the above 4 questions and made a break even chart. Instead of putting the most emphasis on stability money wise, for the first time in my life I put the most emphasis on me being happy. My "ceiling" of success on this path is rather high and my "floor" is living at the beach year round while teaching.

My personal situation (no significant other, kids, dog, fish or anything to take care of) combined with my own personal financial situation and privileges that I was born into and worked for, I decided I was able to take the leap, especially since not many people get the opportunity to take it.

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. This scenario has so many parallels to mine. Financially, I'm in a good position as well, maybe not quite as flexible as I have a wife and a few pets - but also no kids. My wife and I live a very humble lifestyle that has us on track to pay off our house in just a few more years time, and we have zero debt outside of that. We also have a good sized nest egg that would allow me to go without income for at least half a year, maybe more (health insurance being the big variable). I'm a super risk-adverse person, so the idea of resigning and moving on without something else lined up definitely scares me. But I'm starting to think that might be what I should do. I know a few months off would do me really good mentally.

My dream would be able to work for myself or in a very small business after years of working in a huge corporation. Problem is I don't really have the connections to make that happen. Part of me wonders if just pulling the plug and putting my back against the wall is the best way to make that happen though.
 

Jack Straw

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Embiid

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Back in the '80s when I was in grad school at Jefferson I used to run on Kelly Drive. One day I run past a parking lot and notice a car with door open. As I go past I notice a couple in there doing the nasty in the front seat. Yikes.
Yeah I live near Kelly drive and at night those parking lots are like inspiration point from Happy Days and the 1950's.

 

Superman33

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Thanks so much for sharing your experience. This scenario has so many parallels to mine. Financially, I'm in a good position as well, maybe not quite as flexible as I have a wife and a few pets - but also no kids. My wife and I live a very humble lifestyle that has us on track to pay off our house in just a few more years time, and we have zero debt outside of that. We also have a good sized nest egg that would allow me to go without income for at least half a year, maybe more (health insurance being the big variable). I'm a super risk-adverse person, so the idea of resigning and moving on without something else lined up definitely scares me. But I'm starting to think that might be what I should do. I know a few months off would do me really good mentally.

My dream would be able to work for myself or in a very small business after years of working in a huge corporation. Problem is I don't really have the connections to make that happen. Part of me wonders if just pulling the plug and putting my back against the wall is the best way to make that happen though.

Health insurance was a big one for me and although I'm relatively healthy, that public educator health insurance was sweeeeeeet. I did some research on the health insurance market place as a part of my decision making process, so I factored in that monthly cost to my living expenses. Definitely more money then I've ever paid for health insurance before, but not totally out of control.

"Risk" isn't really a word I dealt with prior to this. I typically get the same thing every time I go to restaurants because I don't want to risk not liking something, especially when I'm hungry. I talked to a lot of people before I made the jump mostly because I was waiting for anyone to talk me out of it. I got a lot of "You have to do it" and "I'm just pissed I can't do it". They made the risk less terrifying, but the "floor" I have is still a very nice spot and that is why I pulled the trigger.

The mental break I've had over the past three months has been great. I had a 90 hold on my contract once I put in my notice, but I ended up taking vacation for more than half of the days that I was supposed to be working. Today is the one week anniversary of my last "official day" as an employee, but it was also like my 20th vacation day in a row. Over that time I spread out my time working on setting up my business, making materials, and putting together my website, but also just sitting on the beach and reading. I knew I'd be bored eventually, but it is a change in mindset from "Accomplish task, next problem, accomplish task, next problem..." and I'm still working on that change.



As an educator at heart, I'm a big fan of helping people figure out their "why" and then helping them get to a spot that fulfills their "why". I think the perspective of "everyone has to go to college and get a degree to get a good job" is a bunch of garbage. I'd rather people find out what makes them happy and the "why" behind it, then figure out the skills and experiences necessary to fulfill that "why". Life is too short to spend it doing something you don't want to do every day.

There were many days where I'd be in my parking spot just sitting in my car because I didn't want to go in. Eventually my secretary would send me a text and be like "coming inside today?" and I'd regularly want to say no. Eventually, some people are going to get to the point where they do say no and I'm all for it.


I know you had asked in a post about approaching management with the "I don't really like this" issue. To me, good management is supposed to be getting the best out of their resources and people are their greatest resource. Some places of business are really only focused on the bottom line, which can make management not respond well to those types of conversations. If they see any move as a negative investment, they'd rather just let the person go. Luckily, in the world of education I didn't really "sell" a product and as long as my department didn't go over our set budget then I wasn't impacting a bottom line anywhere. That made my conversation a little bit easier.

"I can no longer mentally or physically do this position. I'd love to hear any ideas you have about how to make this work or if there are other directions we can go, but I'm not going to be able to stay here with the current circumstances."

I know that my Superintendent was a big fan of me and as he liked to say I was "value added" to any situation I was in. He told me to come up with some ideas that I would be okay with to stay. I gave him four plans the week after, including me staying in the current position I was in but hiring a specific Network/IT specific person down to going back to a teaching position. Two days after that we got shut down for Covid, which led to three of the most insane weeks of my life. After that, I said "Now there is only one plan. I don't want the title of Director anywhere near me. If someone else isn't in that position by August, I quit." They were incredibly supportive and basically gave me everything I asked for, which is crazy because I'd never imagined I'd be in a place to make demands. Almost made me feel bad leaving a year later anyways. Almost.

The conversation can be difficult, but I think when it is approached from the perspective of "I'm no longer able to be productive in this position" combined with "I'm looking for help", then it opens that door to work with them first to see if there is something that can be done there. If the conversation doesn't happen, then those paths can't be explored. I explored a path, still didn't work for me, so I packed it in. I was at "I'm either dealing with this stuff for the next 23 years of my life or I take the chance now.", so I typed my resignation letter and kept a copy with me that just needed to be signed and dated. Eventually the moment hits you when you just pull it out, sign it, and hand it in.

Good luck figuring out what works best for you. Not sure I'm a shining example or a paragon of making major life decisions, but I'll be here if you want to bounce anything off of me. I mean, what else am I going to be doing anyways?

schitts-creek-busy.gif
 

Appleyard

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It’s insane that the taliban has an official twitter account.


They are pretty smart and savvy over last 15 years. Understand how public perception matters. They have used that alongside being very good tactically to win in the North when 15 years ago had no chance. (other factors help ofc!)

Better education than a lot of people in other parts of Afghanistan before 2005 or so too. (thanks to Saudis and US and then Russia!) Heck, the name does mean "students". Shame that the way they have been educated is such a corruption of Islam in many ways.

Though that philosophy does not seem to be so hardline when it comes to drug smuggling which is like 1/3 of their income aha.
 

Appleyard

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I'm still floored by the amount and variety of tech that was left there by the NATO forces. Not necessarily for use, but even for resale to other armies for intelligence purposes, that's insanity

The whole approach was wrong.

But tbh the approach was more about stopping Al-Qaeda, getting oil, and disrupting Russian influence than anything else. Which have all been achieved...

Should have consolidated in North and East the last 10 years. Heck, experts have been saying that since the 2000s.

Was pretty inevitable that unless stayed another 10 years Taliban would be at least in a joint-government in best case scenario.
 
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kudymen

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But tbh the approach was more about stopping Al-Qaeda, getting oil, and disrupting Russian influence than anything else. Which have all been achieved...

Oh, absolutely. Just the idea that it may have been indirectly traded for significant intelligence gains of countries such as China or Russia is just.. difficult to understand
 
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Starat327

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Oh, absolutely. Just the idea that it may have been indirectly traded for significant intelligence gains of countries such as China or Russia is just.. difficult to understand

I'm certainly not an expert here, but I imagine what was left behind was meant for the Afghani forces to use to actually defend themselves. For as much as we are getting railed about not offering support - you can't overthrow a government and take over a country in two weeks if you're encountering any semblance of resistance.

I'm not saying what America did was right here, but you can only rely on someone else to protect you for so long. If you aren't willing to fight for yourself, you shouldn't expect others to do it for you, either.

That said, much like every other 'operation' in the middle east, the exit strategy here was always murky at best. It's why we should've never gotten as involved as we did from the get-go.
 
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Embiid

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I'm certainly not an expert here, but I imagine what was left behind was meant for the Afghani forces to use to actually defend themselves. For as much as we are getting railed about not offering support - you can't overthrow a government and take over a country in two weeks if you're encountering any semblance of resistance.

I'm not saying what America did was right here, but you can only rely on someone else to protect you for so long. If you aren't willing to fight for yourself, you shouldn't expect others to do it for you, either.

That said, much like every other 'operation' in the middle east, the exit strategy here was always murky at best. It's why we should've never gotten as involved as we did from the get-go.
Exit strategy didn't matter as narrow interests profited for over 20 years at a cost of a trillion dollars and thousands of lives lost all around. It's like the financial crisis and the TBTF Banks..when the music is playing you dance. This end game was very predictable it was just how long it would take for the end game to play out. 20 years is quite an accomplishment for the US doubling down on stupidity/hubris...but again who profited?
 

Appleyard

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I'm certainly not an expert here, but I imagine what was left behind was meant for the Afghani forces to use to actually defend themselves. For as much as we are getting railed about not offering support - you can't overthrow a government and take over a country in two weeks if you're encountering any semblance of resistance.

I'm not saying what America did was right here, but you can only rely on someone else to protect you for so long. If you aren't willing to fight for yourself, you shouldn't expect others to do it for you, either.

That said, much like every other 'operation' in the middle east, the exit strategy here was always murky at best. It's why we should've never gotten as involved as we did from the get-go.

Partially it is as only people who were an organised armed force before 2001 were all disbanded and disarmed, and many effectively barred from politic system. Northern Alliance etc. Destroyed the forces in the North that beat the Russians and the Taliban.

So the people who were protecting them beforehand, well, the West made an enemy of some of them, a lot left for Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Pakistan. The militias were what stopped the Taliban the first time... and they dont exist anymore for most part. The Taliban NEVER had the whole of Afghanistan before.

Current armed forces have a lot of phantom soldiers whose bosses are claiming their paychecks, not enough specialists (pilots, mechanics etc), and a lot of people who have never fired a gun in anger vs a trained, professional, armed force who have been doing this for 20+ years. And leaders who have been waging war for 40+ years now and are very tactically astute.

They knew they would lose in most cases and many already fled across to Uzbekistan etc.

And have people deployed to areas where they cant speak same language, have a different culture and feel no ties to. Which does not engender people fighting to their death...

And it is just fact that almost 50% of the country are Pashtun. The majority of the nation and who come from the areas where Taliban and their predecessors have for 40 years provided education, jobs etc. Historically Saudi funded Madrassas which teach Wahhabism.
 

Starat327

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Partially it is as only people who were an organised armed force before 2001 were all disbanded and disarmed, and many effectively barred from politic system. Northern Alliance etc. Destroyed the forces in the North that beat the Russians and the Taliban.

So the people who were protecting them beforehand, well, the West made an enemy of some of them, a lot left for Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Pakistan. The militias were what stopped the Taliban the first time... and they dont exist anymore for most part. The Taliban NEVER had the whole of Afghanistan before.

Current armed forces have a lot of phantom soldiers whose bosses are claiming their paychecks, not enough specialists (pilots, mechanics etc), and a lot of people who have never fired a gun in anger vs a trained, professional, armed force who have been doing this for 20+ years. And leaders who have been waging war for 40+ years now and are very tactically astute.

They knew they would lose in most cases and many already fled across to Uzbekistan etc.

And have people deployed to areas where they cant speak same language, have a different culture and feel no ties to. Which does not engender people fighting to their death...

And it is just fact that almost 50% of the country are Pashtun. The majority of the nation and who come from the areas where Taliban and their predecessors have for 40 years provided education, jobs etc. Historically Saudi funded Madrassas which teach Wahhabism.

To be clear, I wasnt blaming the soldiers for rolling over -- but speaking more to the things you are pointing out here. Defending a nation isnt just about putting a group of people in a spot with some guns and hoping for the best. The plan to defend, as you articulated with muich more knowledge than I have, was doomed to fail from the start.

How much of that is on the U.S and their allies and how much is just poor planning from the installed government we'll never really know i guess, but its definitely a failure on both parts.
 
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Appleyard

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To be clear, I wasnt blaming the soldiers for rolling over -- but speaking more to the things you are pointing out here. Defending a nation isnt just about putting a group of people in a spot with some guns and hoping for the best. The plan to defend, as you articulated with muich more knowledge than I have, was doomed to fail from the start.

How much of that is on the U.S and their allies and how much is just poor planning from the installed government we'll never really know i guess, but its definitely a failure on both parts.

Oh, for sure!
 
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Lord Defect

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I'm still floored by the amount and variety of tech that was left there by the NATO forces. Not necessarily for use, but even for resale to other armies for intelligence purposes, that's insanity
We were told to disable or destroy any equipment or gear if we had to abandon it.
There was plenty of time to plan the withdrawal, so there is zero excuse for the way it has been executed.
 
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PALE PWNR

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Has anyone ever experienced job burnout and felt stuck at their job?

I'm in my mid 30's and 10+ years into my IT career that I've done well for myself in. I've been at the same corporation for most of that time and gone from a low level developer to a supervisor and make good money and have great benefits (including a pension). But in the last 1-2 years changes at the company have left the culture borderline toxic. The job sticks on my mind basically 24/7 and I dread going in every day now. It's definitely starting to effect my personal life and my overall well being.

I've been looking for new jobs but only found a few so far that seem good for me - and to my surprise I haven't heard back on those that I felt I was a great candidate for. Needless to say looking for jobs is somewhat foreign to me after being at the same place so long.

Anyone ever find yourself in this situation and have any advice?

Hi there, I think you will find a decent number of people that have faced this situation. I can relate all too well to your situation. I worked as a Dispatcher for AAA from the time I was 18 til I was 27, just a couple months short of my 10 year anniversary. In the final 2 years or so of me being there, I absolutely hated it. My job had become unrecognizable to the job I was hired for, and been promoted to in the first 2 years I was working there. Yet I retained the same title, same level of pay, and no additional benefits of any kind, to supplement the changes to my work that I had grown through. Additionally more and more work was being piled on to me in an effort to consolidate my department. And management, specifically the supervisory staff that I directly reported to, was going through a large amount of turnover due to these changes. Even with my experience, the reliance on me to train not only new hires on the floor but now my newly hired supervisors, I was barred from getting a job as a supervisor and advancing due to my lack of education. By the time I got to the last 6 months of my employment there I was doing more than what my previous supervisors had to do for the 9 years I had been there previously, and more than the current supervisors on staff were able or capable of doing.

I had a fairly good relationship with my managers that were above the supervisors as they had been there since I had been hired, and I'm a bit of a talker at work and genuinely try to get to know people. I was also very good at my job and I knew that they knew, they needed me. It took a lot of nerve but one day I came in with a plan, resolute that if things did not change following the meeting I was to have with my manager that today would be my last day or I would be giving them notice. I spoke with the one I was most comfortable with, she had been my direct supervisor at one point, and laid it out. I knew and she knew how much my job had changed over the past couple years. We both knew that what I was currently doing would have been a supervisors job and gotten a supervisor title and supervisor pay 2 years ago. I was frank, direct, but respectful with my conversation with her, and made it clear that I was unhappy and found the situation untenable moving forward. Her answer was basically that this is what my job entailed now, and the only thing she could do was offer a demotion to a lower level than where I was at, to ease some of the responsibilities I had. This would lead to a pay cut and the demotion came 8 years after earning the promotion to where I was. But I took it. Then I immediately started looking for another job. At first looking for a new job was just something on the backburner. The demotion eased up my responsibilities and I didn't hate life as much going to work anymore. I found it harder and harder still as I watched incompetence unfold around me however, and eventually decided to just go to school full time. Called a favor from a friend and got hired at Wawa in a part time position to keep my head above water while I got my degree.

I'm now working on my Master's and am working at a job that I really enjoy. I fell into it to be honest, and it's not repeatable so I don't have the knowledge to tell you how to go out and get a job more easily. But I can say, you are in a much better financial situation than I was when I decided it was time to go. And my work at a more menial job was so much easier and stress free. It still obviously had drawbacks, but I was so much happier with my life after that. All of this is to say, is be honest with yourself. You know that the job is toxic now. Thats why you are looking and asking for advice. Feel free to express those thoughts in a mature and respectful way to the people at your company that can make changes to help you. And if they can't? Well you know that you want out and that fire to go look for a job will be more ignited.

Sorry for the long post. I just really related to this post a lot. I wish you luck. And its never too late to revamp yourself! All that experience is worth it. And loyalty to companies for that long is rare these days. It is a credit to you. Good luck!
 
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