Post-Game Talk: #8 | Hurricanes at Flyers | October 29, 2022 | 7:00 PM | Loss 3-4 (OT)

[Hextallent63]

Maybe people haven't noticed that JVR is injured?

I mean what are your options at 2LW other than N Cates? Laughton is playing center, and even though not ideal as a 2C, he's still > Frost. Bellows?

MacEwen was on the PP b/c he gives them a big body in front of the net, the only other option right now is Allison and I think they're handling him with kid gloves right now (it's not like he's injury prone?). He also works hard to keep possession - he's not out there to make nifty passes.

The biggest problem the Flyers have right now is handling an aggressive forecheck, but they just played the two most aggressive teams 3 times (FLA and CAR). Part of the problem is winning puck battles, then making quick outlet passes - the best hands in a crowd is N Cates. They've also got some bad habits, like blindly flinging the puck along the boards instead of looking up and seeing if a clean passing lane is available.

some of the things you have mentioned here are habits from coaches past. like stupid little uncontroled dishes up the boards without control. i agree with this stuff for the most part, but ill always go back to the team not having any reason not to put certain players in certain spots. for instance all mac is going to do in front of the net is try to block the goalies vision. he has no hands. and laughton showed he is much more affectie there for a short term relacement. the problem i have with the frost thing is if he is going to be in the line up use him and give him every single chance to get confidence and produce. i dont think torts is. same with allison, although his injury history is concerning. frost might not be the best in his own zone but he does have the where with all to get in a spot on the line for the d to hit. at this point they need to just get rid of him. its obvious he is not the player they want him to be. I'm not saying hes going to be a star or anything but they are not using him for the role they should be.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Only someone biased toward skill over actual play would think Frost is better than Cates.

Cates makes plays all over the ice, like bottling up the opposing team in their D-zone for a minute in the 3rd period while protecting a lead - not as sexy as a rush down the ice that ends up in a turnover, but more valuable.

Cates is overused b/c with JVR out, there are few alternatives, or are you eager to see Bellows get 15 minutes a night at LW?
But he has really good hands in the crowd, wins more than his share of puck battles. What he lacks is the skill package to make things happen on his own, he's a complementary player.

I'll say it again, Frost is grossly overrated by the so-called "experts" on this board. Has been for years.
He's gotten numerous opportunities and done nothing with them, at least Tippett shows he might have a future as a role player, Frost really has to produce as an offensive player or what? Waiting . . . waiting . . . waiting . . .

You're ignoring a ton of stats to make these proclamations. As well as important context, like how Tippett isn't being jerked around at every single turn. Will you be appealing to authority to defend this take? Because that's all you've got on this one.

And you know it. You've done a full 180 on Frost just because Tortorella and Fletcher want you to. All your opinions are formed by asking one question: "what are the failures I adore doing?"

 

[Flyerfan4life]

You're ignoring a ton of stats to make these proclamations. As well as important context, like how Tippett isn't being jerked around at every single turn. Will you be appealing to authority to defend this take? Because that's all you've got on this one.

And you know it. You've done a full 180 on Frost just because Tortorella and Fletcher want you to. All your opinions are formed by asking one question: "what are the failures I adore doing?"

i cant wait for AA to clear medical...

you know this shit Org. is gunna waiver some youth to sign him...

im thinking they expose Frost...

 

[Curufinwe]

Only someone biased toward skill over actual play would think Frost is better than Cates.

Cates makes plays all over the ice

Cates is getting blown off the ice this season. The only regulars with inferior Corsi Rel are Risto and MacEwen.

 

[deadhead]

Cates is getting blown off the ice this season. The only regulars with inferior Corsi Rel are Risto and MacEwen.

TK is getting blown off the ice, the only regular with inferior xGFrel are Risto.

TK -12.96
Frost -9.33
MacEwen -6.88
Cates -5.33
Farabee -2.60

Funny, it's the inexperienced guys who are struggling, in the case of TK and Cates, the problem is probably tough matchups without a top center.
In the case of Frost and MacEwen . . .

Allison +6.49
Laczynski +10.95
Deslauriers +12.69
Sedlak +16.77

 

[Curufinwe]

TK actually makes plays all over the ice. Ones that result in shots being taken and goals been scored.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I often think back to the hilarious cherrypicking of stats that was done to proclaim that TK was a 4th liner because Hakstol was a 4th liner. Anyone watching rationally knew he would break out the second he had a chance though. And he did.

The same people who got TK badly wrong are also wrong about guys like Frost and York.

 

[deadhead]

I often think back to the hilarious cherrypicking of stats that was done to proclaim that TK was a 4th liner because Hakstol was a 4th liner. Anyone watching rationally knew he would break out the second he had a chance though. And he did.

The same people who got TK badly wrong are also wrong about guys like Frost and York.

Wrong as usual.
TK the first three seasons was dependent on playing with G and Couts to be productive, away from them he was a liability.
The last three seasons, he went from being carried on lines to carrying lines.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Wrong as usual.
TK the first three seasons was dependent on playing with G and Couts to be productive, away from them he was a liability.
The last three seasons, he went from being carried on lines to carrying lines.

This is flat out not what happened.

What do you mean wrong as usual? My assessments and predictions usually come to pass. Yours never, ever do. For example, your "TK belongs on the 4th line and isn't a top six player" evaluation versus my "he will break out the second he has support" evaluation.

 

[deadhead]

Go look at TK's play with and without G and Couts.
He was terrible without them his first three seasons.
Because like most young players, he didn't have a clue, made bad passes that led to odd man rushes, didn't back check consistently . . . they CYA for him, but without skilled veterans setting him up and covering for his mistakes, TK was awful.

Last year, on the other hand, despite his scoring slump, he played a solid overall game whereever he was in a constantly shifting lineup because he matured as a player. Which is why I didn't worry about his low S%, scorers have those seasons where nothing goes in, but if they play a fundamentally sound game, they still have value while you wait for the hockey Gods to smile on them again.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Go look at TK's play with and without G and Couts.
He was terrible without them his first three seasons.
Because like most young players, he didn't have a clue, made bad passes that led to odd man rushes, didn't back check consistently . . . they CYA for him, but without skilled veterans setting him up and covering for his mistakes, TK was awful.

Last year, on the other hand, despite his scoring slump, he played a solid overall game whereever he was in a constantly shifting lineup because he matured as a player. Which is why I didn't worry about his low S%, scorers have those seasons where nothing goes in, but if they play a fundamentally sound game, they still have value while you wait for the hockey Gods to smile on them again.

You're moving the goalposts. The claim was that if you gave him top six linemates, he would produce at a top six level. It was obvious watching him that he would. When that happened, he did. The claim wasn't about whether he could singlehandedly carry a line.

The same nonsense is going on with other players, again. There is in fact an in-between area where a player can be good and useful with support. It doesn't have to be either "AHL while shit-trash vets play" and "Dominating the NHL."