Post-Game Talk: #8 | Hurricanes at Flyers | October 29, 2022 | 7:00 PM | Loss 3-4 (OT)

[Tripod]

MacEwan played 3:36 PP time.. lol. This team is a f***ing joke. f*** Tortorella.

In 1 game???

So we now live in a world where Zack Attack gets more PP time than Frost, Allison and Sanheim combined.

 

[renberg]

Provorov is defensively looking better but still can't figure out how to field or break out a puck a lot of the time.

There’s no need for this club to carry four defensemen on $5M+ contracts. Sanheim has a NMC; no club in their right mind would take on Risto with that deal of his; TDA isn’t going to get much of a return. That leaves Provorov on the trading block. Hopefully that’s known around the League and Fletcher is waiting for a decent return- a young, skilled center? Trade Provorov, bring up York and carry on.

 

[deadhead]

Maybe people haven't noticed that JVR is injured?

I mean what are your options at 2LW other than N Cates? Laughton is playing center, and even though not ideal as a 2C, he's still > Frost. Bellows?

MacEwen was on the PP b/c he gives them a big body in front of the net, the only other option right now is Allison and I think they're handling him with kid gloves right now (it's not like he's injury prone?). He also works hard to keep possession - he's not out there to make nifty passes.

The biggest problem the Flyers have right now is handling an aggressive forecheck, but they just played the two most aggressive teams 3 times (FLA and CAR). Part of the problem is winning puck battles, then making quick outlet passes - the best hands in a crowd is N Cates. They've also got some bad habits, like blindly flinging the puck along the boards instead of looking up and seeing if a clean passing lane is available.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Is refusing to play prospects with upside in favor of dead-end players good development?

 

[Beef Invictus]

To quote Ralph Kramden, "Some people are never satisfied".

Why would anyone be satisfied with a bad team?

 

[flyersnorth]

Really enjoyed the game.

TK and Farabee are fun to watch right now - showing great chemistry and really high-end skills.

Bellows is .... slow. Wow. That in itself is almost a write-off for me.

Sedlak, Allison, even MacEwen had decent games.

In general, though, this just isn't a team that has the puck very much. And when they do get it, they are so eager to get rid of it.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Why would anyone be satisfied with a bad team?

The better question is.. why is a Devils fan on the Flyers board telling us how we should feel about a horrible team?

 

[bennysflyers16]

In 1 game???

So we now live in a world where Zack Attack gets more PP time than Frost, Allison and Sanheim combined.

Like how does Allsion not get that PP time. More skilled, 1000 times better shot, complete incompetence.

Is refusing to play prospects with upside in favor of dead-end players good development?

A few here the answer is Yes !

 

[freakydallas13]

In 1 game???

So we now live in a world where Zack Attack gets more PP time than Frost, Allison and Sanheim combined.

MacEwan's pp time is half of Alison's total ice time.

 

[Hextallent63]

Didn’t say he was bad. He lets in at least one really soft goal a game. Go watch the first two goals last game and the first goal tonight.

you know hart had zero camp right?

 

[Striiker]

Is refusing to play prospects with upside in favor of dead-end players good development?

The worst part is this is when they’re missing multiple top of the lineup guys like Couturier, Atkinson, and JVR.

If Dino Torts is refusing to play the kids now, when we have tons of holes that need to be filled by offensive players, imagine how bad it’s going to be when big names come back. Instead, he’s giving guys like Cates and MacEwen chances, while obviously superior players get single digit icetime.

I can’t wait for the luck to inevitably end and watch his head explode as they start getting blown out.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I’ll entertain the idea that Torts is doing what he’s doing regarding ice time/usage as his form of “development”. Tough love for the youngsters as a way of teaching them.

Either way, that was the big concern regarding development - and his techniques in today’s game. Having to constantly be fearful about being sat after a rough game, or getting a sniff of ice time isn’t how you develop talent in this league.

A part of me thinks it’s not even about development though. He just thinks that instilling this obsession with effort above all is the primary objective - and will play whatever Neanderthal necessary to instill that. Talent extraction be dammed.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

That was Hart’s first negative goals saved above expected game at -0.68. Raanta was a positive 0.14. So it’s not like it was a huge advantage/disadvantage in the goaltending matchup. Hart’s previous games he was above 2+ goals against according to those metrics.

So he didn’t sink them really last night. He just didn’t prop them up either.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Maybe people haven't noticed that JVR is injured?

Unsurprising given that he's barely noticeable when he's healthy.

 

[Curufinwe]

I’m missing his point per game pace already

 

[deadhead]

I’ll entertain the idea that Torts is doing what he’s doing regarding ice time/usage as his form of “development”. Tough love for the youngsters as a way of teaching them.

Either way, that was the big concern regarding development - and his techniques in today’s game. Having to constantly be fearful about being sat after a rough game, or getting a sniff of ice time isn’t how you develop talent in this league.

A part of me thinks it’s not even about development though. He just thinks that instilling this obsession with effort above all is the primary objective - and will play whatever Neanderthal necessary to instill that. Talent extraction be dammed.

I don't think it's "tough love," I mean he's playing Farabee (22) and Cates (23) a lot of minutes.
It's more that he's not going to play a kid just because he's a "prospect," and he tries to put all his players in position to succeed.
Deslauriers is actually playing very well, but one reason is Torts knows his limitations and doesn't ask him to do too much.

Frost is struggling, even if some want to live on the da Nile. He got plenty of minutes to start the season and was meh.
Allison right now lacks the burst he had two years ago. Laczynski has been solid but in a sheltered role.
And other players are getting longer looks, but that doesn't mean they'll be playing a month from now.

But the focus right now is more on the veterans, because Torts doesn't yet know who is the core of the team.
So he'll let that shake out before he starts auditioning kids who are "bubble players" (not ready for major roles).

 

[Beef Invictus]

Everyone would look "meh" playing with MacEwen. Cates is worse than Frost with better linemates and he's still fed ice time. Let's not pretend Tortorella is an enlightened coach who runs in pure merit. He's all bias.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Man, it's interesting to see who is doing what on this weird ass team. I hate MacEwen but he's playing like less of a total moron and using that energy to better use, but the PP deployment is insane.

Konecny looks like the best player on either team most nights.

Provorov is defensively looking better but still can't figure out how to field or break out a puck a lot of the time.

Hayes seems like he would be in the press box if they had literally any other NHL centers. Instead he plays 22 minutes a night.

Frost just isn't getting the minutes he needs to figure shit out. He kinda alternates great shift/bad shift in the little time he gets, which probably isn't enough to build on the great shifts.

Sedlak made...a number of nice plays?

What a weird f***ing team. My great fear is that Fletcher takes this start as a sign that there's something there and goes and spends more assets to "fix" their center problem. Woof.

This is a really good post…this is seriously weird, why is this team alive…. Good management WOULD use this as a chance to sell high

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Is refusing to play prospects with upside in favor of dead-end players good development?

If you kill their development, they’re all dead end players. So does it really even matter?

 

[Magua]

Square peg round hole . Cates has never been a point producer , but somehow we are going to force him into that role and it will work . I have heard enough crap on here that Minn Duluth was not an offensive team and was the reason for his low point totals . Cates was 3rd to 6th in scoring on his low scoring team and he went in after his draft plus two year. He is not a F ing point producer .

That being said he is a good penalty killer , defensively sound responsible player , ideal for 3 -4 line LW spot , penalty kill and put out late in games when we have the lead .

Cates has posted the 4th worst point/60 and the worst shots/60 in the league so far at ES. He's seeing similar ice time to Barkov, Barzal, Giroux, Malkin. We all like Cates as a versatile lineup piece, but the team believes this Jeep Wrangler is a Porsche 911.

I said this the other day, but it's just bias, plain and simple, because he has been awful, with optimized usage and no excuses. But they prefer the flavor of his awful because he plays the "right way" -- even though there is no right way, and he absolutely has not been playing the right way. But it comes down to things like size, a certain defensive play, a particular boards battle. His net impact ends up in the same dumpster.

Cates excelled last season, on the wing, with Frost as his center. Both are struggling. Yet, the very thought of trying this escapes them. Definitely something Torts has showed is he just wants 2 scoring (debatable) lines over depth. Half the lineup is for scrap minutes.

 

[wasup]

I don't think it's "tough love," I mean he's playing Farabee (22) and Cates (23) a lot of minutes.
It's more that he's not going to play a kid just because he's a "prospect," and he tries to put all his players in position to succeed.
Deslauriers is actually playing very well, but one reason is Torts knows his limitations and doesn't ask him to do too much.

Frost is struggling, even if some want to live on the da Nile. He got plenty of minutes to start the season and was meh.
Allison right now lacks the burst he had two years ago. Laczynski has been solid but in a sheltered role.
And other players are getting longer looks, but that doesn't mean they'll be playing a month from now.

But the focus right now is more on the veterans, because Torts doesn't yet know who is the core of the team.
So he'll let that shake out before he starts auditioning kids who are "bubble players" (not ready for major roles).

Stop with your player evaluations already .

You say shit one week then something totally different the week later . You eye test needs a lot of work and you prospect evaluations are a wreck . I'm still waiting for Sushko Ratchiffe Willie etc that you say are on there way . Ya Wisdom will be here shortly Hodgson is a rock star , Brown did that thing in the playoffs for Vegas for a few games , omg .

Allison looks slow , ya is that the same guy that started 10 feet behind their D man last night then blew by him to the net to score a goal . Oh just wait , I think they are just protecting him by limiting his ice time to 5-6 mins a game .

Seeler over Z is exactly work hard not smart which sums up Torts 100 percent .

You literally have excuses for them at every turn no matter what . Give it a rest .

 

[Beef Invictus]

Cates has posted the 4th worst point/60 and the worst shots/60 in the league so far at ES. He's seeing similar ice time to Barkov, Barzal, Giroux, Malkin. We all like Cates as a versatile lineup piece, but the team believes this Jeep Wrangler is a Porsche 911.

I said this the other day, but it's just bias, plain and simple, because he has been awful, with optimized usage and no excuses. But they prefer the flavor of his awful because he plays the "right way" -- even though there is no right way, and he absolutely has not been playing the right way. But it comes down to things like size, a certain defensive play, a particular boards battle. His net impact ends up in the same dumpster.

Cates excelled last season, on the wing, with Frost as his center. Both are struggling. Yet, the very thought of trying this escapes them. Definitely something Torts has showed is he just wants 2 scoring (debatable) lines over depth. Half the lineup is for scrap minutes.

Using players correctly instead of forcing all of them to be things they aren't? What a concept.

 

[Rebels57]

Stop with your player evaluations already .

You say shit one week then something totally different the week later . You eye test needs a lot of work and you prospect evaluations are a wreck . I'm still waiting for Sushko Ratchiffe Willie etc that you say are on there way . Ya Wisdom will be here shortly Hodgson is a rock star , Brown did that thing in the playoffs for Vegas for a few games , omg .

Allison looks slow , ya is that the same guy that started 10 feet behind their D man last night then blew by him to the net to score a goal . Oh just wait , I think they are just protecting him by limiting his ice time to 5-6 mins a game .

Seeler over Z is exactly work hard not smart which sums up Torts 100 percent .

You literally have excuses for them at every turn no matter what . Give it a rest .

As long as people keep taking the bait, like they have for nearly a decade, it won't ever stop.

 

[mr4tno]

Maybe people haven't noticed that JVR is injured?

I mean what are your options at 2LW other than N Cates? Laughton is playing center, and even though not ideal as a 2C, he's still > Frost. Bellows?

MacEwen was on the PP b/c he gives them a big body in front of the net, the only other option right now is Allison and I think they're handling him with kid gloves right now (it's not like he's injury prone?). He also works hard to keep possession - he's not out there to make nifty passes.

The biggest problem the Flyers have right now is handling an aggressive forecheck, but they just played the two most aggressive teams 3 times (FLA and CAR). Part of the problem is winning puck battles, then making quick outlet passes - the best hands in a crowd is N Cates. They've also got some bad habits, like blindly flinging the puck along the boards instead of looking up and seeing if a clean passing lane is available.

Mac Nothing should be no where near an NHL roster and he plays in our top 6. Cromagna thinking at its best

 

[deadhead]

Everyone would look "meh" playing with MacEwen. Cates is worse than Frost with better linemates and he's still fed ice time. Let's not pretend Tortorella is an enlightened coach who runs in pure merit. He's all bias.

Only someone biased toward skill over actual play would think Frost is better than Cates.

Cates makes plays all over the ice, like bottling up the opposing team in their D-zone for a minute in the 3rd period while protecting a lead - not as sexy as a rush down the ice that ends up in a turnover, but more valuable.

Cates is overused b/c with JVR out, there are few alternatives, or are you eager to see Bellows get 15 minutes a night at LW?
But he has really good hands in the crowd, wins more than his share of puck battles. What he lacks is the skill package to make things happen on his own, he's a complementary player.

I'll say it again, Frost is grossly overrated by the so-called "experts" on this board. Has been for years.
He's gotten numerous opportunities and done nothing with them, at least Tippett shows he might have a future as a role player, Frost really has to produce as an offensive player or what? Waiting . . . waiting . . . waiting . . .