Post-Game Talk: #70| FLYERS 2 at Devils 6 | Thurs., March 16, 2017 | Injury update: Mason (post #1)

[Ghosts Beer]

So you dont have a better option at 3C then?

I just go Giroux - Schenn - Couturier down the middle and keep $5M in cap room open. And maybe I get more than a 7th and Filppula for a season for it. Maybe I don't. But they aren't contenders next season with or without Filppula.

 

[Striiker]

How are you going to feel about those once our window will open and future is now?

By the time this team is really ready to compete, most (if not all) of those contracts will be gone.

 

[SuchySays]

I just go Giroux - Schenn - Couturier down the middle and keep $5M in cap room open. And maybe I get more than a 7th and Filppula for a season for it. Maybe I don't. But they aren't contenders next season with or without Filppula.

Just because Tampa got a 4th from Pittsburgh for Streit doesn't subtract the one we got from them.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

By the time this team is really ready to compete, most (if not all) of those contracts will be gone.

Sorry, I should phrased it better. How will you feel when Hextall goes back to that well again? There's always Gordons waiting to be signed. One could even say that going into stanley cup finals with Roman Polak is low risk move as well. I mean how big of an impact could it possible have, right?

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Just because Tampa got a 4th from Pittsburgh for Streit doesn't subtract the one we got from them.

Just because he is on the market doesn't mean you have to get him.

 

[Striiker]

Sorry, I should phrased it better. How will you feel when Hextall goes back to that well again? There's always Gordons waiting to be signed. One could even say that going into stanley cup finals with Roman Polak is low risk move as well. I mean how big of an impact could it possible have, right?

In the future the holes are probably going to be filled by prospects, but when these guys were signed the prospects weren't ready.

They were temporary placeholders until there were better options available, and soon they will be.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I just go Giroux - Schenn - Couturier down the middle and keep $5M in cap room open. And maybe I get more than a 7th and Filppula for a season for it. Maybe I don't. But they aren't contenders next season with or without Filppula.

Schenn isn't a center.

 

[BernieParent]

Just because Tampa got a 4th from Pittsburgh for Streit doesn't subtract the one we got from them.

Oh come on, don't sugarcoat it. Of course the Flyers lost their 4th in the Streit trade. I'm pretty sure that they traded their own 4th just to get it done, and the 2020 7th round pick for 4 years of Filppula at $7 million per has completely screwed this team over for years to come. What an abominable TDL!!!!

Gloom! Doom! All is lost!!!!

My two cents: the PEB resigning is ridiculous, and giving Neuvirth a raise is just a margin less ridiculous because once he has successfully been exposed in the ED and overlooked like the semi-moldy tomato at the bottom-front of the produce basket, he'll return to cover the lesser 2/5ths of the Flyers net next season. The Weise and Gordon signings were excellent moves on paper; unfortunately, this season requires a roll and a half of toilet paper. There is NOTHING wrong with the Filppula signing this season or next. And if VdV gets resigned, we know that one or both of Hakstol or Hextall has been hacked by the Russians to destroy America one sports franchise at a time.

 

[deadhead]

Under Berube

2013-2014 - .595 - Lost in Round 1 to NYR (.912)
2014-2015 - .512 - Out Of Playoffs (.914)

Under Hakstol so far..

2015-2016 - .585 - Lost In Round 1 to WAS (.920)
2016-2017 - .514 - Out Of Playoffs

(.903)

Maybe it's the players?
Hextall has been dumping veterans shince he arrived, the plus has been digging out of cap hell and garnering a lot of extra draft picks, the minus has been a decline in depth, especially scoring.

2013-14, Hartnell, Vinnie and Read have 20 goal seasons
Giroux, Voracek, Simmons, Schenn, Couts, Raffl
Kimmo, Coburn and Streit on defense
Now they had Grossman and Schenn on defense, we have faster but less physical equivalents in MacDonald and Schultz.

Fourth line still sucked, Rinaldo, Hall, Rosehill, but Downie was the 10th forward.

That was a more talented team than the current Flyers, but headed to cap hell. And nothing in the pipeline except Ghost, who was still in college.

We've hit bottom, should have been there last year but top flight goaltending saved the season.
Next year we start the climb back up to contention.

 

[Rebels57]

I just go Giroux - Schenn - Couturier down the middle and keep $5M in cap room open. And maybe I get more than a 7th and Filppula for a season for it. Maybe I don't. But they aren't contenders next season with or without Filppula.

A) Have you watched Schenn play Center? He is abysmal.

B) Hextall was not going to spend that cap space this summer because to do so would require going LONG TERM to a veteran free agent. He instead uses it for one year and has it available the following summer unless Filppula earns an extension.

This is the last im going to say on it because its so painfully obvious and the *****ing about it is utterly ridiculous to me.

 

[deadhead]

I think knowledgeable fans understood that it was a five year rebuild, this was year 3, and last year was a goalie generated fluke. With an average goalie performance, the Flyers would be the same 85 point team last year that they were the year before and this year.

Hextall knows this, he's been patching to keep the team respectable while dumping salary and accumulating assets. Filppula and PEB are stopgaps while the young centers develop, the same way Streit, Schultz and MacDonald are warm bodies while the young defensemen develop. The only real disappointment was Weise, and the last couple games he's starting to look like the player Hextall thought he was signing, playing with Couts and Schenn.

With the salary cap, there is no quick way to build a team, and if you want a top contender that's more than a flash in the pan, you have to patiently build through the draft. And that takes five years or so.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

A) Have you watched Schenn play Center? He is abysmal.

B) Hextall was not going to spend that cap space this summer because to do so would require going LONG TERM to a veteran free agent. He instead uses it for one year and has it available the following summer unless Filppula earns an extension.

This is the last im going to say on it because its so painfully obvious and the *****ing about it is utterly ridiculous to me.

I really dont know why folks cannot grasp it honestly.
what is the worst possible thing that happens? Fippula doesnt work out at the end of next season and he leaves via free agency if Hextall cant find a suitor at the deadline or Fippula doesnt agree to a trade somewhere.
Unless some are thrilled with PEB there fulltime

 

[JojoTheWhale]

And I still think it doesn't fully get Hextall's attention.

He's extending a 32 year old Bellemare at a raise for 1.45M per.

He's extending Neuvirth at a raise despite being one of the worst goalies in the NHL this season.

He's signing trash like Weise to 4 year contracts.

He's trading for Filppula at the deadline, who will be 33, take up $5M in cap room, and require expansion draft protection, in a desperate pipe dream that another aging vet can get the team in the playoffs.

He doesn't get it. These established "character" veterans are not what this team needs. That ship has sailed. They don't help. They hold back. I said it before -- it is Ruben Amaro-esque. Clinging on to hope with veterans and not fully embracing a rebuild where kids and the team take some lumps.

Hextall doesn't recognize how bad his roster is, and he's way too scared to turn it over to youth.

I don't like some of the moves either, but this is indefensible. If you really believe this, you don't understand the level of multi-faceted incompetence he displayed.

Amaro stripmined the farm system, routinely overpaid by one significant asset in trades, routinely handed out vesting options, extended Howard when there was absolutely no need to do so, and most importantly -- and this is a direct quote from Jeff Passan -- "leaves behind a Phillies organization at least a decade behind others in knowledge of how modern baseball actually operates."

I think Steve Yzerman is the best GM in hockey. He sure has made some mistakes, though. That's how the world works. You either can't separate the individual decisions from the bigger picture or you don't understand anything about the Amaro Phillies.

 

[TheKingPin]

I think knowledgeable fans understood that it was a five year rebuild, this was year 3, and last year was a goalie generated fluke. With an average goalie performance, the Flyers would be the same 85 point team last year that they were the year before and this year.

Hextall knows this, he's been patching to keep the team respectable while dumping salary and accumulating assets. Filppula and PEB are stopgaps while the young centers develop, the same way Streit, Schultz and MacDonald are warm bodies while the young defensemen develop. The only real disappointment was Weise, and the last couple games he's starting to look like the player Hextall thought he was signing, playing with Couts and Schenn.

With the salary cap, there is no quick way to build a team, and if you want a top contender that's more than a flash in the pan, you have to patiently build through the draft. And that takes five years or so.

Last year was an uptick due to overachieving goalies. This year downtick secondary to underachieving goalies. Overall this team with provy and TK should be better than last years team. This looks worse because of the metro having a unusually high performing year including long win steaks etc. makes the playoffs seem further away than they would be in past years. I think next year will be better than last year considering all of this.

 

[kudymen]

Well that was bleh

 

[OzFlyers]

I really dont know why folks cannot grasp it honestly.
what is the worst possible thing that happens? Fippula doesnt work out at the end of next season and he leaves via free agency if Hextall cant find a suitor at the deadline or Fippula doesnt agree to a trade somewhere.
Unless some are thrilled with PEB there fulltime

Agreed, I really like the Fippula trade.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

A) Have you watched Schenn play Center? He is abysmal.

B) Hextall was not going to spend that cap space this summer because to do so would require going LONG TERM to a veteran free agent. He instead uses it for one year and has it available the following summer unless Filppula earns an extension.

This is the last im going to say on it because its so painfully obvious and the *****ing about it is utterly ridiculous to me.

I don't like Schenn much. But have you watched Filppula play center? 2 points in 8 games and -6. And frankly a downright horrifying CORSI. You're acting like he's been good when he has been terrible.

My point continues to be: There was no need to add a soon 33 y/o Filppula right now to take up an expansion draft protection slot and $5M in cap space for next year when the season was already a loss.

It was a needless move and another bad decision by Hextall based on misevaluating his roster and the impact of an aging vet.

And yes, the fact that they got a 4th, 7th, and Filppula for Streit, and then Streit was traded for a 4th, means by commutative property that they essentially relieved Tampa of Filppula for the equivalent of a 7th.

Also, I'm sick of hearing about the "who else would Hextall sign this summer?" argument regarding Filppula -- as if Hextall MUST use the $5M in cap space before next season or a bomb is going to go off, like the one on the bus in Speed.

The $5M in space is an asset. It's worth more than a 7th round pick and the addition of an aging vet in a desperate hopeless attempt to make the playoffs. It, for example, could have given them needed flexibility in a trade down the road. And as I said, I guarantee a player they will now have to leave exposed in the expansion draft because of Filppula would have been tradable for more than a 7th round pick.

I also am sick of hearing a defense of the Weise, Gordon, and Filppula moves as being allegedly "good on paper at the time." All that means is a handful of posters were wrong in defending Hextall at the time and now don't want to admit it. A very small group of posters disliked those moves from their inception for the right reasons. It's the same as all the mocking I got about declaring the Flyers' top six scoring "thin" (and that was without Konecny) in the preseason. When are you going to acknowledge you have made the same horrible misevaluations about this team as Hextall?

 

[Lotusflower]

San Joses patience with their core has paid off. They caught flack for years then put it all together when they were all over 30 years old. I think we should stay the course with them and see how a better D, depth and coaching serves them.. unless you can trade one core piece for another (Duchene for example).

Edit: I consider 28, 93, 17, 14 to be our veteran core with 9, 11, 53 the next gen core.

San Jose's roster is different from ours though. Jumbo Joe, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, and Vlasic as a core brings an excellent mix of size, skating, two-way play and consistent 5 on 5 difference-making in playmaking and goalscoring.

Our roster is a group of misfit toys that has struggled to get anything done 5 on 5 for the last 3 plus years.

Giroux is a declining force at 5 on 5; he can still take over games on special teams but the game is much faster now than it was 5 years ago and it shows every game with him.
Voracek can be a force 5 on 5 and on the PP but he's streaky and anemic as a goal scorer
Couturier is elite defensively and underrated as a 5 on 5 scorer but not a guy you can lean on offensively by any means
Simmonds is versatile but has really never been a big difference maker 5 on 5

Hakstol has done a terrible job and for the most part I agree that the best case scenario right now is to stick with the current core but I look at this core and seriously question its ability to carry us deep into the playoffs 2+ years down the line even with greater depth at forward and defense

 

[hatcher]

Voracek has killed filp. Filp has made a lot of awesome plays but know finish and just like with g vorac k has no chemistry with anyone really outside afew games. Hexy contracts he's given out are terrible. If not for drafting he'd be fired and if the roster doesn't get blown up or added to in a major way he should get the axe anyway.

 

[Curufinwe]

I just go Giroux - Schenn - Couturier down the middle and keep $5M in cap room open. And maybe I get more than a 7th and Filppula for a season for it. Maybe I don't. But they aren't contenders next season with or without Filppula.

Schenn has shown he's not up to playing center as his main position.

The Flyers also got a 4th from Tampa. They couldn't agree to a deal with Pittsburgh as Bob MacKenzie reported, so they could have been left keeping Streit and getting nothing in return the way Buffalo were with Kulikov and Franson. Just to be clear, your argument that the 2017 4th doesn't count because Tampa got a 2018 4th from Pittsburgh for Streit makes no logical sense whatsoever.

The $5M in space is an asset. It's worth more than a 7th round pick and the addition of an aging vet in a desperate hopeless attempt to make the playoffs.

Filppula was acquired for this season, and next season as well. There was no misevaluation in deciding Schenn needs to play primarily winger, and the trade wasn't based on trying to make the playoffs this season.

 

[Hiesenberg]

I don't know why the Expansion Draft protection keeps coming up. Honestly I can't even find 7 forwards I'd LEGITIMATELY protect. I honestly can't find 3 Dmen either.

 

[hatcher]

I don't know why the Expansion Draft protection keeps coming up. Honestly I can't even find 7 forwards I'd LEGITIMATELY protect. I honestly can't find 3 Dmen either.

Exactly. It's time for a change.

 

[Curufinwe]

If they protect Raffl as the 7th forward, it means Read/Weise/Bellemare/Cousins/Laughton will be unprotected. And as Appleyard has pointed out, Vegas can only take 10 RFAs which makes it less likely they take Cousins or Laughton.

So it'll probably be Read. If Weise had scored closer to his previous two seasons, I think it would have been him.

 

[Striiker]

If I were them I'd take Weise instead.

If I had to bet, I'd guess Weise outscores Read next year.

 

[Hiesenberg]

I think Weise actually will be the better player moving forward. Honestly his cap hit isn't that bad and they can pencil him into the bottom 6 for a few years and forget it.

I think Weise is a logical target for LV.