Post-Game Talk: #70 | 3/20/2015 | Red Wings @ Lightning | Another loss to Yzerman

[Claypool]

Gotta be honest and say I hope he leaves in the summer. I really wish we would just fall out of the playoffs so we can finally see some change in our management.

I love these types of posts. As soon as they have a bad stretch, in a season where they've been challenging for first in the conference, the conversation shifts to blowing the team up and hoping to missing the playoffs. They played a great road game on back to back nights against a top team and were in it until one mistake cost them. Yep, time to fire everyone.

 

[theYman]

Sucks I keep missing games but might as well be these. Geez another loss with no points. Man the offense is atrocious. Is it our transitional game hurting us?

 

[Sheriff Bert]

This offseason, I don't care what it takes, we just need to upgrade the defense. I'm okay with the second pair, but Big E is playing #7 style hockey, and it would be even worth trading Smith if it means a true top 4 guy like Phanuef. As much crap as Phanuef gets, a change of scenery would be best for him, and he cannot be worse than Smith any way you put it.

Like Zidlicky, but Mike Green would be pretty nice too.

 

[InjuredChoker]

This offseason, I don't care what it takes, we just need to upgrade the defense. I'm okay with the second pair, but Big E is playing #7 style hockey, and it would be even worth trading Smith if it means a true top 4 guy like Phanuef. As much crap as Phanuef gets, a change of scenery would be best for him, and he cannot be worse than Smith any way you put it.

Like Zidlicky, but Mike Green would be pretty nice too.

phaneuf is going to be way, way worse than smith in few years.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

phaneuf is going to be way, way worse than smith in few years.

Ericsson is going to be way worse then ericsson in a few years, and at best 1/4 as good as phaneuf.

Phaneuf would easily be on par with kronwall today as our best overall dman.

Our defence is the WORST among all 16 playoff teams as well as the two or three teams fighting for a playoff spot.

Its our system/structure and smart two-way forwards that prevent it from being any worse.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Ericsson is going to be way worse then ericsson in a few years, and at best 1/4 as good as phaneuf.

Phaneuf would easily be on par with kronwall today as our best overall dman.

Our defence is the WORST among all 16 playoff teams as well as the two or three teams fighting for a playoff spot.

Its our system/structure and smart two-way forwards that prevent it from being any worse.

i agree with pretty much all of that. not sure if the D is the worst but it's one of.

even as big E is going to absolutely suck in few years, it doesn't mean that we should be going after phanuef. unless we can dump ericsson in that trade which is highly unlikely.

i think that should mean that we should avoid to go after players like phaneuf who are going to offer nothing but empty cap space in some years, as we already have players who are done or seriously overpaid soon.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Gotta be honest and say I hope he leaves in the summer. I really wish we would just fall out of the playoffs so we can finally see some change in our management.

Well I am pretty sure you will get one third of your wish. Don't think we will miss the playoff or Holland will be gone anytime soon.

 

[RedWingzz]

Nyquist looking like Stephen Weiss out there. Fumbling the puck at the blueline isn't a very good idea. Solid play Gus....

 

[Outl4w]

That Ben Bishop has been amazing against Det over the last two years.

 

[Outl4w]

i agree with pretty much all of that. not sure if the D is the worst but it's one of.

even as big E is going to absolutely suck in few years, it doesn't mean that we should be going after phanuef. unless we can dump ericsson in that trade which is highly unlikely.

i think that should mean that we should avoid to go after players like phaneuf who are going to offer nothing but empty cap space in some years, as we already have players who are done or seriously overpaid soon.

If we could get Tor to take Big E , Weiss, and say Jurco/Smith/Pulk plus a 2016 2nd would you take it?

 

[InjuredChoker]

If we could get Tor to take Big E , Weiss, and say Jurco/Smith/Pulk plus a 2016 2nd would you take it?

probably yes.

not because i think phaneuf is good or worth it to have his contract but to get rid of weiss and big E makes it lesser of the evils.

i think he might have few years left and the rest of the assets aren't that valuable.

wings would actually save cap space there so more room to address other issues.

 

[Shaman464]

If we could get Tor to take Big E , Weiss, and say Jurco/Smith/Pulk plus a 2016 2nd would you take it?

They retain salary and the prospect isn't Pulkks or Jurco, then yes. If not, no way.

 

[Kronwalled55]

If we could get Tor to take Big E , Weiss, and say Jurco/Smith/Pulk plus a 2016 2nd would you take it?

Toronto would be dumb to do that though. Rebuilding teams don't want baggage.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

If we could get Tor to take Big E , Weiss, and say Jurco/Smith/Pulk plus a 2016 2nd would you take it?

no way toronto takes weiss AND ericsson

no way we trade ericsson, he is a lifer red wing

that all said, ericsson in the right position on our depth chart is good, ericsson as the #2 dman on any playoff team is bad

kronwall-zidlicky
dekeyser-phaneuf
ericsson-marchenko
ouellet

our depth is so much better this way band guys in their right spots

 

[8snake]

no way toronto takes weiss AND ericsson

no way we trade ericsson, he is a lifer red wing

that all said, ericsson in the right position on our depth chart is good, ericsson as the #2 dman on any playoff team is bad

kronwall-zidlicky
dekeyser-phaneuf
ericsson-marchenko
ouellet

our depth is so much better this way band guys in their right spots

I agree that this defense needs to be re-made...but Kronwall-Zids? That's not a top pair on a contending team. Old and bad defensively. They would be eaten alive on the forecheck. As much as I like Zids since he's been here he would be exposed big time going against #1 lines. I don't think you can just add Dion and shuffle everyone around. Dramatic changes need to be made.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I agree that this defense needs to be re-made...but Kronwall-Zids? That's not a top pair on a contending team. Old and bad defensively. They would be eaten alive on the forecheck. As much as I like Zids since he's been here he would be exposed big time going against #1 lines. I don't think you can just add Dion and shuffle everyone around. Dramatic changes need to be made.

fair enough

good point

then we dont resign zidlicky and instead go for a petry

kronwall-dekeyser
phaneuf-petry
ericsson-marchenko
ouellet

basically if we go into next season with the same defence we have today we're never going to take steps forward

 

[8snake]

fair enough

good point

then we dont resign zidlicky and instead go for a petry

kronwall-dekeyser
phaneuf-petry
ericsson-marchenko
ouellet

basically if we go into next season with the same defence we have today we're never going to take steps forward

Agree completely with your last sentence. Getting better at moving the puck and getting Ericsson out of the top 4 is essential.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I love these types of posts. As soon as they have a bad stretch, in a season where they've been challenging for first in the conference, the conversation shifts to blowing the team up and hoping to missing the playoffs. They played a great road game on back to back nights against a top team and were in it until one mistake cost them. Yep, time to fire everyone.

Not that I want us to miss, and I do want Babcock to stay, but they've challenged for first at some point in basically every season in the past few years. It just doesn't last, and it wasn't going to last this year either.

 

[SoupGuru]

Even strength on ice goals for percentage of total (Goals For / (Goals Against + Goals For )). Basically, if you have the same number of goals against than you have goals for, you're at 50%.

Start of season through December

Smith: 45.2
Ericsson: 45.5
Kronwall: 46.5
DeKeyser: 53.3
Quincey: 54.5
Kindl: 60


January and February

Kronwall: 44
Smith: 46.2
Ericsson: 50
DeKeyser: 60.9
Quincey: 61.5


Since March 1st (9 games)

Ericsson: 16.7
Smith: 28.6
Kronwall: 30.8
Quincey: 50
DeKeyser: 50
Zidlicky: 71.4


Basically, we're getting our ***** handed to us at even strength lately. And we've really only had one pair of defensemen that can hold their own at even strength over the season.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Even strength on ice goals for percentage of total (Goals For / (Goals Against + Goals For )). Basically, if you have the same number of goals against than you have goals for, you're at 50%.

Start of season through December

Smith: 45.2
Ericsson: 45.5
Kronwall: 46.5
DeKeyser: 53.3
Quincey: 54.5
Kindl: 60


January and February

Kronwall: 44
Smith: 46.2
Ericsson: 50
DeKeyser: 60.9
Quincey: 61.5


Since March 1st (9 games)

Ericsson: 16.7
Smith: 28.6
Kronwall: 30.8
Quincey: 50
DeKeyser: 50
Zidlicky: 71.4


Basically, we're getting our ***** handed to us at even strength lately. And we've really only had one pair of defensemen that can hold their own at even strength over the season.

difference between zids and smith is hilarious.

and yes, either kronwall is regressed or ericsson drags him down. i lean on both. he hasn't been good for months.

 

[detredWINgs]

I agree that this defense needs to be re-made...but Kronwall-Zids? That's not a top pair on a contending team. Old and bad defensively. They would be eaten alive on the forecheck. As much as I like Zids since he's been here he would be exposed big time going against #1 lines. I don't think you can just add Dion and shuffle everyone around. Dramatic changes need to be made.

I dont think that potential pairing is a guaranteed problem at all. It would be our fastest executing pair by miles. It would be the first time in eons (for both) where they could move the puck at their highest level because their partner would actually be able to respond effectively.

I also disagree that that pairing would get trapped on the forecheck anymore than our top pairing already does. In fact, I'd say that's the biggest issue with our top pairing relative to other teams top pairings. And a big part of that is Ericsson's slow decision making. The guy is solid when he has time to make a play and also knows where he needs to be if he has the time to get there, but he isn't fast enough to execute in terms of skating nor decision-making. What's so bothersome about the top pairing as it is now is that it allows the opposition's forecheck to establish itself despite the fact that we're usually the first to the puck. It's that second pass that usually kills us because we take the extra time to dish the puck and by the time that happens, we're in a battle for the puck.

With Kronwall-Zidlicky, that wouldn't be half the problem. Where we would have the forechecking problem, however, is that a Kronwall-Zidlicky pairing would play further up the ice. And that pairing would probably struggle themselves to regain possession after the forecheck is established through early zone entry. But heres the thing: we have that problem with the top pairing already. It just comes about differently.

So why entertain the switch? Because there's likely a net gain in offense there. Not in terms of direct production, but a faster executing top pairing means the puck is moving faster up the ice and/or getting into the hands of your forwards sooner.

Having seen how Zidlicky plays, I probably wouldn't be an advocate for this in a vacuum, but given how poorly theKronwall-Ericsson unit has executed defensively (while offering little boost offensively at even strength), I think it would be just as viable a pairing defensively. And I think it would surprise people in that respect in the same way Kronwall-Smith surprised a lot of people last year in the playoffs.

Sadly, this long-winded analysis is probably moot since it seems only injury is going to get Ericsspn off the top unit. It certainly isn't going to be relentless defensive gaffs.

 

[SoupGuru]

difference between zids and smith is hilarious.

and yes, either kronwall is regressed or ericsson drags him down. i lean on both. he hasn't been good for months.

Yeah, honestly I have no idea how Smith and Zidlicky can be so different since they're paired up mostly.

 

[TatarTangle]

Yeah, honestly I have no idea how Smith and Zidlicky can be so different since they're paired up mostly.

One sucks and the other isn't bad. Defense needs Marchenko back, IMO. Get two RHS on the backend. Roll something like;

Kronwall - Marchenko
DeKeyser - Zidlicky
Quincey - Ericsson

 

[Frk It]

difference between zids and smith is hilarious.

and yes, either kronwall is regressed or ericsson drags him down. i lean on both. he hasn't been good for months.

I don't think he's regressed too bad, just has such a huge burden to carry with that group, so that's why I think he has trailed off towards the end of the season.

Ericsson is a legitimate pylon, he needs to he replaced or put on the 3rd pair.

 

[InjuredChoker]

One sucks and the other isn't bad. Defense needs Marchenko back, IMO. Get two RHS on the backend. Roll something like;

Kronwall - Marchenko
DeKeyser - Zidlicky
Quincey - Ericsson

marchenko on top pairing isn't realistic option.