GDT: 7 // Coyotes @ Flyers // What The Hell Is Going On? edition

[Ebb]

What my vast hockey knowledge (attained via watching the Coyotes play for 15+ years) and hearing acumen tells me is that this game was a big ole clusterbuck. I'm glad for the win (although I napped through the second period--which was probably a good thing), but hope we can do better against the Western teams.

One of the reasons we struggled in the East is possibly because the Coyotes are a pale imitation of how Eastern teams (who spend more money) are built. So, when we head East and play teams that have been built this way for years, we end up falling short.

In the West, our "speediness" stands out more (most Western teams--similar to Philly--go for size and grit over speed). Of course, I haven't browsed the Western rosters for this season yet, so perhaps things are changing.

In any event, I'll take the win and hope for more of the same as the team continues to play together and hopefully starts clicking more (and staying healthy--please).

 

[Lawson of Anarchy]

Then it's not true..... as the above states he did not play at all and you have house league experience.

Really? wow. Petty semantics. There is no record of anyone playing house league hockey. Look on hockeydb or eliteprospects and you will see every junior player's stats - Tip is there but no record of Hitch.

Anyway, I think I have stated the case clearly that you do not need any special hockey skill to have an elite hockey mind. Earlier someone had posted that they felt that was the case but I think we can agree that it is not.

 

[XX]

Scoring is up league wide.

I'm not worried about the kids or the roster, but Tip needs to find some stable lines and quickly. Shuffling guys around constantly isn't helping anything.

Really? wow. Petty semantics. There is no record of anyone playing house league hockey. Look on hockeydb or eliteprospects and you will see every junior player's stats - Tip is there but no record of Hitch.

Anyway, I think I have stated the case clearly that you do not need any special hockey skill to have an elite hockey mind. Earlier someone had posted that they felt that was the case but I think we can agree that it is not.

You're arguing with someone who has zero interest in your side and what you have to say.

 

[kihekah19*]

Really? wow. Petty semantics. There is no record of anyone playing house league hockey. Look on hockeydb or eliteprospects and you will see every junior player's stats - Tip is there but no record of Hitch.

Anyway, I think I have stated the case clearly that you do not need any special hockey skill to have an elite hockey mind. Earlier someone had posted that they felt that was the case but I think we can agree that it is not.

Just busting your chops man..... has no one a sense of humor.

I agree and have stated as much COUNTLESS times. What I'm advocating is the averages are in favor of one who has playing experience. There is always an exception to the law of averages, it's only logical.

 

[kihekah19*]

Scoring is up league wide.

I'm not worried about the kids or the roster, but Tip needs to find some stable lines and quickly. Shuffling guys around constantly isn't helping anything.



You're arguing with someone who has zero interest in your side and what you have to say.

Really? I actually don't have a problem with the above. The line shuffling may be a problem, I don't find the notion particularly interesting because many have expressed same, but that certainly doesn't make it wrong, or right.

 

[Lawson of Anarchy]

Just busting your chops man..... has no one a sense of humor.

Ah! My apologies. Hard to pick up on sarcasm on these forums!

 

[kihekah19*]

Ah! My apologies. Hard to pick up on sarcasm on these forums!

Well, I went for the smart az grin

I knew you were referring to hockeydb, or the like.

 

[_Del_]

What my vast hockey knowledge (attained via watching the Coyotes play for 15+ years) and hearing acumen tells me is that this game was a big ole clusterbuck.

I concur. I have no NHL coaching experience, but my skating resume rivals or surpassss Ken Hitchcock. Hitchcock IS a professional coach, and professionals are unquestionably correct always, ergo, I am equally or more correct than Ken Hitchcock (who also thought this game was a sloppy mess -- he PM'd me. You'll have to take my word for it).

 

[RR]

We need a separate thread for *****ing off at each other....and now back to the game. Domi and Duclair both look ready to break out. I'm really worried about Stone. Concussions are tricky (if that's what he has).

I agree. It's one of the reasons I don't post often. I don't know the game as well as many of you, so why derail the thread being told what an idiot one is that results in an argument taking up multiple posts. I just prefer to read and learn. And skip posts by certain posters. That's one of the reasons I stopped moderating. I couldn't put anyone on ignore.

 

[TheLegend]

His career stat line suggests otherwise...

And if you take that as evidence, Wayne Gretzky's stats should have got us three or four Stanley Cups by now.

 

[TheLegend]

Ah! My apologies. Hard to pick up on sarcasm on these forums!

Given the history of our franchise over the past decade we've all become somewhat of a grizzly bunch.

But we all want the same thing.... to see this team do well. The differences come in how they get there.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

But we all want the same thing.... to see this team do well. The differences come in how they get there.

I think the toughest part is reconciling context. At our remove from the day-to-day on the ice, it's easy for us to say, "We have a lot of good talent in the system - all we need is some time for them to learn and develop, and eventually flourish." From that perspective, we can easily convince ourselves that a bad year this year is acceptable - or maybe even a couple more bad years - because we hope that eventually things will align so that we're competitive.

But from a player's perspective - particularly the veterans who are on the roster - there's no such thing as a throwaway or "learning" season. An NHL hockey player has, on average, ten chances in a career to win the Stanley Cup. Selling them on the idea that one or two of those chances are automatically ruled out in favor of "developing" the younger players is usually an extremely difficult task.

Then there's the paying customer perspective - particularly the season ticket holders, whose investment goes into the five figures per annum. How many of them are content with spending that much money on a "project team"? Is that really the kind of entertainment they want to use their disposable income on?

None of these groups is in the wrong, all of these positions are valid. It's just tough to remember it all the time when crafting clever bon mots on a message board...

 

[Jakey53]

Ken Hitchcock and Scotty Bowman never played pro...

I didn't say pro.

Same. I find it hard to believe that hockey is too difficult and nuanced to understand without having played in the NHL. That's ridiculous. At the same time, I'd not suggest that Hitchcock is no smarter than me based on our skating experience, but I don't think anyone or their decisions are beyond questioning just because they are an NHL coach.
This idea that the game is too complicated or nuanced for people who never skated is just a small play on the main "you're an idiot" theme running through the threads from a small group of posters in whose view professionals have never made mistakes and are beyond the criticism of mere mortals. Except, ironically enough, the professional skaters who aren't executing...

Maybe if you played the game you would have a different view and understanding of the game. I'm not trying to be ignorant or arrogant, just stating a fact. All coaches can be questioned about their decisions, that is your right, but 99% of the time they are right and you are wrong. We are all human, we all make mistakes everyday.

 

[Jakey53]

I concur. I have no NHL coaching experience, but my skating resume rivals or surpassss Ken Hitchcock. Hitchcock IS a professional coach, and professionals are unquestionably correct always, ergo, I am equally or more correct than Ken Hitchcock (who also thought this game was a sloppy mess -- he PM'd me. You'll have to take my word for it).

Ice capades don't count.

 

[cobra427]

For god's sake, hockey is not heart surgery. What separates a professional hockey, basketball, football, or baseball player from those who don't make it to that level is purely physical ability. There are plenty of extremely smart, intuitive players who never make the Big Show because they aren't big, fast, or strong enough. And there are plenty of professional players who have long careers because their physical gifts make up for the fact that they have a ten-cent head.

There's a hoary aphorism out there that says, "Those who can't do, teach." That's very true in many cases, but it's also true in many cases that some of the best coaches and strategists in sports have been people who didn't have a pro career first. The reason why? Because they are able to think the game or sport on a separate level from the playing field. They are able to divorce themselves from the conventional wisdom and exploit unconsidered avenues. Look at what Theo Epstein has done in his career as a baseball GM.

How much validity you ascribe to the opinions of professional players and coaches is up to you. In my experience, there is no such thing as a sacrosanct authority that cannot be challenged.

What separates pro athletes is the mental aspect of the game not the physical aspect. True you have to have a certain amount of physical ability to make it, but past that, it is 100% mental. There are tons of physically gifted athletes that never make it to the pro level.

If you have ever made it to the pro level of any sport, you certainly have a high understanding of that game. If you have played and made it up the coaching ranks to the pro level, you have a high understanding.

Being a GM is totally different then being a coach at a high level. GM's are making well thought out business decisions.

 

[kihekah19*]

What separates pro athletes is the mental aspect of the game not the physical aspect. True you have to have a certain amount of physical ability to make it, but past that, it is 100% mental. There are tons of physically gifted athletes that never make it to the pro level.

It's both, takes the whole package.

 

[Jakey53]

What separates pro athletes is the mental aspect of the game not the physical aspect. True you have to have a certain amount of physical ability to make it, but past that, it is 100% mental. There are tons of physically gifted athletes that never make it to the pro level.

If you have ever made it to the pro level of any sport, you certainly have a high understanding of that game. If you have played and made it up the coaching ranks to the pro level, you have a high understanding.

Being a GM is totally different then being a coach at a high level. GM's are making well thought out business decisions.

That is what I was trying to say, but I guess I came off as arrogant.
You can watch a million games from your couch at home, but there is not way of understanding the game like a coach or the players. I'm no different, I question a coaches decision but I don't see what they see in a certain player, such of broken coverage, bad execution, not following the game plan etc. etc. The coaches in the NHL spend hundreds of hours a week looking at film, running practices etc. and are getting big money for their expertise. Same goes for the players who have spent a lifetime honing their skill and then have some one sitting on their couch saying they know or understand the game as well as the do is plan stupid.