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GDT: #66: FLYERS at Islanders, Sunday, Mar. 3, 2019, 3:00 pm ET

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BiggE

BiggE

SELL THE DAMN TEAM
Jan 4, 2019
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I think he did pretty well with Simmonds too. Scouts see what we’ve seen, a player clearly on the downside that is quickly becoming a liability at ES. If not for the intangibles that GMs love so much, they would have got even less.

Hartman is faster, better with the puck on his stick, younger and will cost much less than Simmonds going forward. Seems like a pretty good trade to me.
 
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Striiker

Striiker

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JojoTheWhale said:
He moved Simmonds for a fair return even if I didn’t like the approach he took to the assets coming back. He called Myers up and created room for him through Folin’s trade and keeping Schlemko down. He sent Weise down. He traded Weise. He sent Lehtera down. He hired Rick Wilson, who has been a real positive. Feel free to tell me those were automatic, but after the previous era, I’m going to suggest we should know better than to brush them aside. For as much as Hartman was not what I wanted, he’s in no way a Filppula.

In the Talbot deal, I know what was said and I didn’t like it either, but the implied thought that keeps getting glossed over is that Talbot is a perfectly fine 1B type bet. So as long as he doesn’t overpay him, that’s fine assuming Stolarz wasn’t in their plans.

He’s not been good in the margins and that DEFINITELY matters, more than most think. But it’s largely been the margins where the errors are. That alone makes him an above average GM so far.
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Again, I'm not saying he's in the negative, just that I don't see him as a positive yet either. And so long as he's not a positive, I have no faith in hockey people to be a pleasant surprise. My expectations will remain low until a big enough positive shifts them. So far nothing he's done has been good enough to do so.

So when looking at that specific situation I mentioned, I would see recognizing that Hagg is a problem, and then removing the problem, as a huge positive and there's nothing that's happened yet that leads me to believe that's something to expect.
 
TCTC

TCTC

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Mar 25, 2013
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BiggE said:
I think he did pretty well with Simmonds too. Scouts see what we’ve seen, a player clearly on the downside that is quickly becoming a liability at ES. If not for the intangibles that GMs love so much, they would have got even less.

Hartman is faster, better with the puck on his stick, younger and will cost much less than Simmonds going forward. Seems like a pretty good trade to me.
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Yeah, I don't know how anyone can say this wasn't a good trade when we got the better player. If you expected to get a better return for Simmonds, blame Hextall for not trading him when he had more value.
 
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deadhead

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Hagg will garner some value, it'll be obvious to a smart GM that he's grossly misused here and can be bought low, then pair him with a puck moving RHD and you have a cheap 3rd pair D-man.

Morin - Gudas will present the same issues as Hagg - Gudas, who handles the puck in the D-zone.
One reason they kept Morin down was fears that he'd cough up the puck under NHL pressure.
The real issue is Gudas shouldn't be paired with a LHD who can't take the puck handling load off his back.

Fletcher hasn't made any mistakes so far, he's cleared out the trash, though that was inevitable and obvious.
A 6th for Weal is looking like a steal, with Lyon burning up the AHL Stolarz was expendable.
He didn't rush players up from the AHL to show he was "doing something, anything" or make bad TDL deals.

Varone plays b/c he's better than Vorobyev or Bunnaman right now, with Giroux back at LW where he belongs, Knight is the only viable option at 4C this year. Notice Bailey has gone MIA, and he outplayed NAK at LHV. A scrub by any other name . . .
 
Bruckuss

Bruckuss

FML & FCF
Apr 1, 2012
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re: Hagg, future trade value should not be a factor. We have a spoil of riches on Defence, and some other club will be looking for young, cost controlled physical D men, there will be a market for him and the return is not a massive difference maker.

If we are still "in", then I can see keeping him for experience sake for now.

If out, you definitely give Sam the shot when he is ready, and eased in as a 7th is a fine way to do so.
 
Stizzle

Stizzle

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Feb 3, 2012
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Striiker said:
Again, I'm not saying he's in the negative, just that I don't see him as a positive yet either. And so long as he's not a positive, I have no faith in hockey people to be a pleasant surprise. My expectations will remain low until a big enough positive shifts them. So far nothing he's done has been good enough to do so.

So when looking at that specific situation I mentioned, I would see recognizing that Hagg is a problem, and then removing the problem, as a huge positive and there's nothing that's happened yet that leads me to believe that's something to expect.
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Just because they haven't removed Hagg yet is not indication Fletcher doesn't know he sucks. The fact that Hagg's ice time plummeted the second Fletcher's hand picked coach arrived is a great indication.

As JoJo said, Hagg likely does hold a fair amount of trade value to a certain sector of GM's. He's young, cheap, has size, is relatively experienced, and hitzzzzz. Scratching him would kill that value.
 
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Striiker

Striiker

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Stizzle said:
Just because they haven't removed Hagg yet is not indication Fletcher doesn't know he sucks. The fact that Hagg's ice time plummeted the second Fletcher's hand picked coach arrived is a great indication.

As JoJo said, Hagg likely does hold a fair amount of trade value to a certain sector of GM's. He's young, cheap, has size, is relatively experienced, and hitzzzzz. Scratching him would kill that value.
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It's possible. I'm just saying I'm not gonna hold my breath.
 
Alex K

Alex K

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The people, who want Amac instead of Hagg are totally insane! It's like asking for a fire instead of flood.
 
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deadhead

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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MacDonald - Gudas makes more sense than Hagg - Gudas.
Morin - MacDonald may be more workable than Morin - Gudas.
It's still hard to put 3 balanced combos together right now.
 
mja

mja

Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
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deadhead said:
Varone plays b/c he's better than Vorobyev or Bunnaman right now, with Giroux back at LW where he belongs, Knight is the only viable option at 4C this year. Notice Bailey has gone MIA, and he outplayed NAK at LHV. A scrub by any other name . . .
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Varone is 28 years old. He's not an NHL player and is not part of the future of the club. He's not even appreciably better than Vorobyev. You just have to work in the prospects at some point and deal with their struggles. Neither Vorobyev nor NAK were given any kind of a real chance. The funny thing is that we've done this with Nolan Patrick and Ivan Provorov, but other players have gotten far less slack without any real justification. Patrick's and Provorov's draft pedigree may have something to do with that, but that isn't a real justification.

There's no doubt in my mind that if Hak were still at the helm, Sanheim would still be getting fed 3rd pairing minutes and not even remotely looking like the two-way beast he's looking like right now, or that Lindblom would likely be toiling away on the 4th line instead of looking all the world like a permanent fixture in the top 6.
 
deadhead

deadhead

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Yeah, just don't pull a "BC."
Hextall left with him with enough assets that he can lose trades for 2-3 years and still improve the team, as long as those losses aren't lopsided.
So far, I like the fact that he seems more cautious than he was in Minnesota, maybe he learned something there?
 
bennysflyers16

bennysflyers16

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Jan 26, 2004
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I wonder what Preds fans are thinking. Simmer did not look good last night at all. Plus on 1 shift Tanev and Lowry both smoked Jets and all he did was yell at them.
 
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TheKingPin

TheKingPin

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Nov 16, 2005
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Good that cbus lost. Carolina is already up 2-0. The bunch of jerks seems to be as motivating as bucket of deplorable‘s.

Win tomorrow and 3 pts back of Pitt and cbus for the last spot. Pitt already up 1-0. Cbus plays jets tomorrow.
 
TCTC

TCTC

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Mar 25, 2013
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We really should've won that game in Montreal. We could've been within 1 point tomorrow...
 
Ghosts Beer

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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deadhead said:
Yeah, just don't pull a "BC."
Hextall left with him with enough assets that he can lose trades for 2-3 years and still improve the team, as long as those losses aren't lopsided.
So far, I like the fact that he seems more cautious than he was in Minnesota, maybe he learned something there?
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Fletcher is intelligent & thoughtful. He had a ton of “win now” pressure on him late in Minnesota to save his job that pressured him into some decisions.

I think he’s going to do very well here. He’s smart & he learned from early mistakes.

Holmgren inherited a great situation, cap & system wise, from Clarke and left it a mess. To Hextall’s credit, he fixed Holmgren’s mess & left Fletcher with a situation similar to what Homer inherited — bad record, but huge cap space & excellent young players on the cusp of breakouts.
 
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