Post-Game Talk: #61 | FLYERS at Senators | Friday, Mar. 18, 2022 | 7:00 pm ET | TSN5, RDS, NBCSP+

[mja]

Frost deserves to be criticized.

My problem is I point out that Frost isn’t being criticized when he deserves it.

Two simple questions:
1. Did Frost deserve criticism for his penalty?
2. Did a single poster so much as mention it in the GDT other than me?

Since you won’t answer, I will:

1. Frost absolutely deserved criticism for his penalty. And
2. No one so much as mentioned it but me.

Now you’re all continuing the excuse campaign. It’s sad.

My God, even Carchidi gets it:

I’m pointing out that people want to hide Frost’s mistakes & I’m asking why. This was not a one-off.

Are you contending that Frost’s good has outweighed the bad this season? And that his mistakes should be ignored?

I didn't watch a single second of the game, so I wasn't going to comment on Frost's play but you've made me realize the error of my ways. It's well past time we call out his turpitude, for it is sullying all of us. Why, this very morning I chipped a tooth on a particularly hard piece of toast, and in pain when I gazed at the toast, seared into not only my toast but also forever into my brain was the dreadful image of Morgan Frost's evil countenance smirking back at me!

Have no fear, brother in arms; I, too, will call out Frost's wickedness! I will validate you! We shall rise up together to overcome this outrage and defend noble Fletcher from the mendacity of the unruly mob here!

 

[deadhead]

I did watch the game. Frankly, Frost sucked, what really shocked me was the lack of burst.
Now some of that was the 2nd game in two nights on the road, which impacted the whole team, as well as a lack of energy after an emotional game.
But if you watched that German forward on Ottawa, Stutze, who drew that penalty on Frost, that's what a dynamic offensive player looks like - I don't see any of that in Frost right now.

Braun and Jones did a good job of upping their value before the TDL.

 

[Striiker]

Honestly, when certain posters constantly whine about specific players, it’s as good as a guarantee that they’re playing well and have some real skill and value to the team.

Their track record makes it pretty clear who’s good and who’s bad, since they hate guys like Frost, Ghost, Sanheim, TK, etc. and love guys like Hayes, Ristolainen, and Hagg.

Take their hatred of the player as the best possible endorsement and their love of the others and the greatest strike against. It hasn’t steered us wrong yet.

 

[deadhead]

Honestly, when certain posters constantly whine about specific players, it’s as good as a guarantee that they’re playing well and have some real skill and value to the team.

Their track record makes it pretty clear who’s good and who’s bad, since they hate guys like Frost, Ghost, Sanheim, TK, etc. and love guys like Hayes, Ristolainen, and Hagg.

Take their hatred of the player as the best possible endorsement and their love of the others and the greatest strike against. It hasn’t steered us wrong yet.

Well, you're not talking to me since I love TK and like Sanheim a lot better since he learned to make plays in the O-zone.
I'm skeptical about Frost, since he has yet to do anything, and think some people here grossly overrated Ghost.
However, I've been one of the leaders of the Farabee fan club since the WJC-20.

And how come the people who claim they love TK don't slobber over Atkinson, who is an older, more polished version of TK?

 

[Lindberg]

Honestly, when certain posters constantly whine about specific players, it’s as good as a guarantee that they’re playing well and have some real skill and value to the team.

Their track record makes it pretty clear who’s good and who’s bad, since they hate guys like Frost, Ghost, Sanheim, TK, etc. and love guys like Hayes, Ristolainen, and Hagg.

Take their hatred of the player as the best possible endorsement and their love of the others and the greatest strike against. It hasn’t steered us wrong yet.

It's almost like its a collection of 82 games that matter and not just a singular one.

 

[Lindberg]

Well, you're not talking to me since I love TK and like Sanheim a lot better since he learned to make plays in the O-zone.
I'm skeptical about Frost, since he has yet to do anything, and think some people here grossly overrated Ghost.
However, I've been one of the leaders of the Farabee fan club since the WJC-20.

And how come the people who claim they love TK don't slobber over Atkinson, who is an older, more polished version of TK?

I haven't seen anyone here dump on Atkinson.

I do think there's a bit too much of an over attachment to Voracek. Still a good complimentary player at the right price but he wasn't as much of a difference maker as people would lead you to believe. Good at zone entries, playmaking, and handling the puck in the offensive zone but the rest of the game he was basically a non factor.

Voracek's hatred to you was comical though. I loved every minute of it. You should man up, privately message his twitter account, and buy him a beer in philly one day and post a picture of you two. Would be epic, hell I'll venmo/paypal the costs of both beers.

 

[deadhead]

I haven't seen anyone here dump on Atkinson.

I do think there's a bit too much of an over attachment to Voracek. Still a good complimentary player at the right price but he wasn't as much of a difference maker as people would lead you to believe. Good at zone entries, playmaking, and handling the puck in the offensive zone but the rest of the game he was basically a non factor.

Voracek's hatred to you was comical though. I loved every minute of it. You should man up, privately message his twitter account, and buy him a beer in philly one day and post a picture of you two. Would be epic, hell I'll venmo/paypal the costs of both beers.

Jake just frustrated me b/c I think he enjoyed playing the game more than winning, that is, he liked to skate and pass, but a 6'3, probably 220 lb skilled forward should dominate play at both ends. Imagine if G had Jake's body! Some athletes aren't wired that way, and I think Jake is probably a fun guy to be around, but also a guy who gave HC's grey hair.

I don't think Jake "hated" me, I think he just was a bit thin skinned, star athletes are used to being pampered, and some don't take well to criticism (others feed off it).

On the other hand, I find the criticism of G to be absurd, anyone watching him knows he got every ounce of production possible out of his talent package. You can't ask for more.

 

[Lindberg]

Jake just frustrated me b/c I think he enjoyed playing the game more than winning, that is, he liked to skate and pass, but a 6'3, probably 220 lb skilled forward should dominate play at both ends. Imagine if G had Jake's body! Some athletes aren't wired that way, and I think Jake is probably a fun guy to be around, but also a guy who gave HC's grey hair.

I don't think Jake "hated" me, I think he just was a bit thin skinned, star athletes are used to being pampered, and some don't take well to criticism (others feed off it).

On the other hand, I find the criticism of G to be absurd, anyone watching him knows he got every ounce of production possible out of his talent package. You can't ask for more.

I had very high expectations of Voracek but I never thought he lived up to his potential on the Flyers. Still a really valuable player but just not quite that extra gear. Only challenged for a scoring title once but came in 5th.

Giroux made Raffl a 20 goal scorer and Hartnell a one time 37 goal scorer.

The Flyers didn't need "snipers" but they could have benefited with a few more shoot first (off the rush) guys. Simmonds was a net front prescence who often times had 2 goal games (take that for what you will).

 

[Magua]

Atkinson for Voracek worked as well as it possibly could 1-for-1 in year 1. 30 goal/63 point pace? Sure, it's been an Indian summer of a season. He's a good, likable player. There's not much to criticize about Cam by himself.

Age 33 and 34, who knows? He does currently have a career high 5v5 on-ice shooting %, along with a career high 5v5 individual shooting %. His season has been in 2 stages basically: ungodly heater the first couple months, then playing with Giroux every game since mid-January. This isn't a criticism on how he's presently played. He scored tonight, but there's no more Giroux. There is room for regression on multiple fronts going forward, although maybe there's a Couturier boost. A big sell was adding a dynamite PKer......well, we still have the 7th worst PK. Atkinson has always been useless on the PP, and his use on our non-functional PP1 just further sells that point. I repeat: no more Giroux.

Really the point is, with the obvious injury caveat, that the Flyers are so far away from being legitimately good that fit players don't matter. Fletcher is obsessed with shooting %s, but it ignores that the team's biggest weaknesses are: 1) play-drivers 2) passing 3) entry/exit threats. Atkinson is 0/3 on that front. I'm not here to shit on a bright spot in this bad season -- in a different context, maybe it's perfect -- and it's not even about an aging, also declining, 1 year on his contract Voracek. But it's a myopic team building perspective that manifests over and over.

 

[deadhead]

If Frost was the player some here think he already is, with Couts and Hayes, they'd have entry guys, playmakers and passers.
And I think Brink will be a difference maker in that regard.
But you need some guys who'll shoot instead of making the extra pass that ends up with a turnover.

As with most aspects of the game, balance is the key.

Fletcher has said they need more speed and skill, which may explain the holdup in negotiations, he wants those prospects b/c the Flyers lack that in the pipeline.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Ristolainen gets 2 penalties, no problem. Frost gets 1. He is bad
Flyers get 4? Powerplays and score on none of them. Frost is bad
Flyers are the worst team in the league. Frost is bad
Flyers have the worst Coach in the league. Frost is bad
Flyers have the worst development program in the league. Frost is bad
Flyers have the worst concept to give their young players confidence. Frost is bad
Flyers have on of the worst PPs in the whole leauge. Frost is bad
Flyers have a bad penaltykill. Frost is bad
Flyers scored nearly the fewest goals in the league. Frost is bad
Flyers suffered nearly the most goals in the league. Frost is bad
Flyers playing 60% AHL Players on their NHL Team. Frost is bad

Should i go on.

fRoSt lOvErS are so pathetic!


It seems like Frost is the center of all what is wrong with our franchise! So i give you all a easy solution!

Trade that Bum and we will start to climb to the olymp next years! Stanley Cup here we come!!!!

 

[Ironmanrulez]

I had very high expectations of Voracek but I never thought he lived up to his potential on the Flyers. Still a really valuable player but just not quite that extra gear. Only challenged for a scoring title once but came in 5th

Giroux made Raffl a 20 goal scorer and Hartnell a one time 37 goal scorer.

The Flyers didn't need "snipers" but they could have benefited with a few more shoot first (off the rush) guys. Simmonds was a net front prescence who often times had 2 goal games (take that for what you will).

Next Gear from Voracek would be Jagr! I dont think that is fair. Vorecak was on of the best playdriving, playmaking wings of the last 10 years!

He was very good for us and never the problem!

 

[Striiker]

Really the point is, with the obvious injury caveat, that the Flyers are so far away from being legitimately good that fit players don't matter. Fletcher is obsessed with shooting %s, but it ignores that the team's biggest weaknesses are: 1) play-drivers 2) passing 3) entry/exit threats. Atkinson is 0/3 on that front. I'm not here to shit on a bright spot in this bad season -- in a different context, maybe it's perfect -- and it's not even about an aging, also declining, 1 year on his contract Voracek. But it's a myopic team building perspective that manifests over and over.

Right, so instead of this being a move about adding a player who’s a “better fit” - which is what it’s been called since the start and how it’s still defended today - it’s actually the exact opposite. We traded what we need most for what we need least. ESPECIALLY given we lost Ghost at the same time, who’s 3 for 3 when it comes to the criteria you listed.

It’s hard to imagine a better way to ensure a team isn’t going to be competitive than getting rid of Voracek, Ghost, and Giroux in less than a 12 month span and adding nobody who replaces any of the highly valuable things they added to the team. That’s an ungodly amount of skill and smarts to lose.

 

[VladDrag]

I did watch the game. Frankly, Frost sucked, what really shocked me was the lack of burst.
Now some of that was the 2nd game in two nights on the road, which impacted the whole team, as well as a lack of energy after an emotional game.
But if you watched that German forward on Ottawa, Stutze, who drew that penalty on Frost, that's what a dynamic offensive player looks like - I don't see any of that in Frost right now.

Braun and Jones did a good job of upping their value before the TDL.

Stueztle is in a different league of prospect that Frost is. If you are thinking these guys have similar projections, you’re going to be upset.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Stueztle is in a different league of prospect that Frost is. If you are thinking these guys have similar projections, you’re going to be upset.

In his eyes we all think Frost is at least as good as Stützle! As funny as it is!

 

[deadhead]

Stueztle is in a different league of prospect that Frost is. If you are thinking these guys have similar projections, you’re going to be upset.

Frost should flash some of that talent on a regular basis, his strength is his speed and play making ability.
I'm not writing him off, but people make too many excuses for him - at some point potential has to become production.

 

[Lindberg]

Next Gear from Voracek would be Jagr! I dont think that is fair. Vorecak was on of the best playdriving, playmaking wings of the last 10 years!

He was very good for us and never the problem!

I don't think that's the case or at least that's not what I meant to imply.

Voracek only broke PPG once in his career nor was he ever a good two way player. I think if most people were honest they'd be just a bit disappointed with a player that had his play making, stick handling, and speed skills.

I'm not saying he wasn't very good or the problem but he was prone to bone head plays. Voracek was a guy who I thought would take over game at times but I never thought that was the case.

 

[flyershockey]

I don't think that's the case or at least that's not what I meant to imply.

Voracek only broke PPG once in his career nor was he ever a good two way player. I think if most people were honest they'd be just a bit disappointed with a player that had his play making, stick handling, and speed skills.

I'm not saying he wasn't very good or the problem but he was prone to bone head plays. Voracek was a guy who I thought would take over game at times but I never thought that was the case.

I've always maintained that Voracek had the game to be the next Hossa, but the mentality geared towards a Viktor Kozlov career development. That's an old player comparison, but that's how long I've been on the fence with Jake lol.

I've really got no complaints with the Atkinson/Voracek swap, at least for the first year or two. I just don't know about Atkinson at 34 or 35.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Had a great relaxing night by paying no attention to the Flyers whatsoever.

I ended up watching The Adam Project.
Good movie

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Ristolainen gets 2 penalties, no problem. Frost gets 1. He is bad
Flyers get 4? Powerplays and score on none of them. Frost is bad
Flyers are the worst team in the league. Frost is bad
Flyers have the worst Coach in the league. Frost is bad
Flyers have the worst development program in the league. Frost is bad
Flyers have the worst concept to give their young players confidence. Frost is bad
Flyers have on of the worst PPs in the whole leauge. Frost is bad
Flyers have a bad penaltykill. Frost is bad
Flyers scored nearly the fewest goals in the league. Frost is bad
Flyers suffered nearly the most goals in the league. Frost is bad
Flyers playing 60% AHL Players on their NHL Team. Frost is bad

Should i go on.

fRoSt lOvErS are so pathetic!


It seems like Frost is the center of all what is wrong with our franchise! So i give you all a easy solution!

Trade that Bum and we will start to climb to the olymp next years! Stanley Cup here we come!!!!

This is a top 10 post.

 

[Lindberg]

I've always maintained that Voracek had the game to be the next Hossa, but the mentality geared towards a Viktor Kozlov career development. That's an old player comparison, but that's how long I've been on the fence with Jake lol.

I've really got no complaints with the Atkinson/Voracek swap, at least for the first year or two. I just don't know about Atkinson at 34 or 35.

Jake is a head case. That's clear as day.

You don't make it to the NHL without a love of hockey but all signs point to not that high of a compete level compared to fellow peers. Seems like quite a few years he didn't come into camp in the best of shape and spends a good bit of time on hfboards reading posts about his game performance.

He just doesn't internally have that drive in which your only comparison is your self. That's how you'll play up to your true potential.

 

[Lindberg]

Really the point is, with the obvious injury caveat, that the Flyers are so far away from being legitimately good that fit players don't matter. Fletcher is obsessed with shooting %s, but it ignores that the team's biggest weaknesses are: 1) play-drivers 2) passing 3) entry/exit threats. Atkinson is 0/3 on that front. I'm not here to shit on a bright spot in this bad season -- in a different context, maybe it's perfect -- and it's not even about an aging, also declining, 1 year on his contract Voracek. But it's a myopic team building perspective that manifests over and over.

Voracek to me was a frustrating player but objectively looking back is that more on the organization for it's continual mismanagement and misguided practices?

The organization routinely did things to sabotage their own performance. Hakstol admitting he wasn't good at communicating while being hired for that trait. Their affinity for Lappy but yet firing their best performance coach in Joe Mullen. It's truly a wonderful case study in how incompetence at an organization can't be overcome by talent.

 

[Rebels57]

Wright, Cooley, Savoie here we come! Giddy up.

Yawn

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I didn't watch a single second of the game,

Yet you feel the need to excuse Frost.

Why?

 

[mja]

Yet you feel the need to excuse Frost.

Why?

On the contrary, comrade! Morgan Frost is an undesirable who must be purged from our midst. In fact, I've heard tell that his team-killing play is unambiguously and categorically responsible for both Giroux's decision to leave the team, as well as Giroux's preference for Florida as a possible destination, under the reasoning that Frosty would melt in such an environment, and thus Giroux will be safe from further Frost-related damage.

Thanks, Frosty.