Post-Game Talk: #61 | Flyers at Devils | February 25, 2023

[dragonoffrost]

Beef covered it in malt vinegar.

At least it wasn't Ketchup from some peoples opinions.

 

[Beef Invictus]

At least it wasn't Ketchup from some peoples opinions.

Ketchup is the wall-mounted TV of condiments.

 

[Curufinwe]

So funny that Hayes and Sanheim were the only two skaters to not get scored on.

 

[dragonoffrost]

So funny that Hayes and Sanheim were the only two skaters to not get scored on.

Saw the goal coming and skated hard for the bench?

 

[Curufinwe]

Sanheim played 15;22 with Risto - no goals allowed.

Risto allowed a goal with Seeler (1:43), Angelo (0:36) and Braun (0:16).

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[kudymen]

Sanheim played 15;22 with Risto - no goals allowed.

Risto allowed a goal with Seeler (1:43), Angelo (0:36) and Braun (0:16).

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Obvious solution is to bench Sanheim and come up with a “funny” nickname for him.

 

[Rebels57]

gotta be the worst flyers team I've ever seen. Top to bottom, a horrible team.

Luckily for us, Fletcher very clearly doesn't have a thing to worry about

Not just horrible, but filled to the brim with unlikeable players.

 

[VladDrag]

Fletcher did turn it around for a year, and if not for COVID and Hart melting down, maybe they run it back in 2020-21 - but that team had a very narrow window. And when that window closed, they should have blown it up last spring and summer (trade Risto, don't trade for TDA, etc.). The talent simply wasn't there but does anyone think if Fletcher wanted to start a rebuild he would have been allowed to do so?

I've wanted to bring this up for a while, and I figured this would be a good opportunity to do so. So, DH, don't take this as a specific attack.

The 19-20 was a good team, but they weren't one of the best teams in the league. People always remember those last 9 games were they went 8-1 before being shut down for a significant period. During that stretch, the points % was like 90%, which is impossible to sustain. They were right around the 60-65% for the 60 games prior to that.

During that time frame, They lead the league in save percentage. Defensively, they actually had an increase in xGA/60 BUT a decrease GA/60. Like an unfathomable amount of GA, as in a no where near sustainable. There was no way that was going to continue long term.

Offensively, during that timeframe, get this, they also lead the league in shooting percentage. Now, they did have an increase in xGF/60, but they also had a significant increase in GF/60. So yeah, they had some additional offense going at the time, but pucks were going in like crazy. Not sustainable either.

Then during the actual playoffs, their defensive struggles continued, they continued to experience elevated xGA numbers, but the goaltending remained relatively consistent. They had issues generating offense during the playoffs. That was their biggest issue. They couldn't generate shit, at all.

 

[snoop88]

the 19-20 team was actually really good, and reminded me a lot of the 2008 Flyers and 2022 Phillies. Good trades and free agent signings, bringing in personality and character, and good young prospects coming into their own. A fresh roster after many stale years.


The difference was the 2020 Flyers had a lower ceiling. the limitations was reaching the 2nd round. It was obvious and the team should've been blown up by the trade deadline 2021. Instead we tread water and here we are.

 

[Curufinwe]

2021 was also weird because they had historically bad goaltending.

 

[deadhead]

Fletcher did what he was told, brought in the players that got them back to the playoffs, tried to maximize the last peak years of G and Voracek and Simmonds. Problem was when you patch your way to the playoffs, it's not sustainable. Fletcher wasn't going to make waves and jeopardize his job, so he crossed his fingers and tried to muddle through. Which probably bought him a year. As long as the POB have power, they'll never rebuild.

The development argument is BS, if the Flyers had talented players they weren't developing, other teams would buy low and we'd see those players emerge elsewhere - we see that all over the league. The fact that those prospects did nothing elsewhere suggests scouting, and overvaluing their own players, was the real problem. These kids are only in the system for a year or two, most were in college, otherwise juniors until 20. You see Twarynski, Bunnaman, Myers, Rubtsov, Vorobyev et al do anything after they left? Ghost is the same player in Arizona that he was in 2018-19, he just got healthy.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Fletcher did what he was told, brought in the players that got them back to the playoffs, tried to maximize the last peak years of G and Voracek and Simmonds. Problem was when you patch your way to the playoffs, it's not sustainable. Fletcher wasn't going to make waves and jeopardize his job, so he crossed his fingers and tried to muddle through. Which probably bought him a year. As long as the POB have power, they'll never rebuild.

The development argument is BS, if the Flyers had talented players they weren't developing, other teams would buy low and we'd see those players emerge elsewhere - we see that all over the league. The fact that those prospects did nothing elsewhere suggests scouting, and overvaluing their own players, was the real problem. These kids are only in the system for a year or two, most were in college, otherwise juniors until 20. You see Twarynski, Bunnaman, Myers, Rubtsov, Vorobyev et al do anything after they left? Ghost is the same player in Arizona that he was in 2018-19, he just got healthy.

No, he didn't.

 

[VladDrag]

the 19-20 team was actually really good, and reminded me a lot of the 2008 Flyers and 2022 Phillies. Good trades and free agent signings, bringing in personality and character, and good young prospects coming into their own. A fresh roster after many stale years.


The difference was the 2020 Flyers had a lower ceiling. the limitations was reaching the 2nd round. It was obvious and the team should've been blown up by the trade deadline 2021. Instead we tread water and here we are.

I guess it depends on how you define really good. As you define really good as 2nd round limit, I agree with you. My point is that I've seen multiple people claim how good that team was and I just don't think they were as good as some claim to be.

When it comes the team itself, DH was right, the window was closing. 5 of the 6 top scorers were 27 and older. But, they had a chance to get better in the offseason. They could have shot higher than Hayes and Braun. I'm not going to kill them for the buy low Niskanen option.

Instead they hitched their wagon to Hayes...and 3 days after that contract was signed, J.T. Miller was traded. Now I have no idea what it would have taken for the Flyers to get Miller, but they had the picks and the prospects at the time to do it. So the problem, imo, wasn't the process. I'm fine if they pushed the chips in the middle and said, we're going for it. The problem, imo, was that they went after the wrong players.

But you're right, 20-21 they should have traded Laughton, never tried to acquire Risto, and sold off what the could. It was clear by that time, they should have begun the process of rebuilding.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Fletcher did what he was told, brought in the players that got them back to the playoffs, tried to maximize the last peak years of G and Voracek and Simmonds. Problem was when you patch your way to the playoffs, it's not sustainable. Fletcher wasn't going to make waves and jeopardize his job, so he crossed his fingers and tried to muddle through. Which probably bought him a year. As long as the POB have power, they'll never rebuild.

The development argument is BS, if the Flyers had talented players they weren't developing, other teams would buy low and we'd see those players emerge elsewhere - we see that all over the league. The fact that those prospects did nothing elsewhere suggests scouting, and overvaluing their own players, was the real problem. These kids are only in the system for a year or two, most were in college, otherwise juniors until 20. You see Twarynski, Bunnaman, Myers, Rubtsov, Vorobyev et al do anything after they left? Ghost is the same player in Arizona that he was in 2018-19, he just got healthy.

Fletcher was definitely not told to make the worst moves he could. He was probably told to make the team good. He made them bad.

Thats bad.

The development argument is true and your refusal to believe the Flyers could be doing something wrong doesn't change that. Stop cherrypicking. It's really dishonest. If a position requires dishonesty to defend, then it's not worth defending.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Fletcher did what he was told, brought in the players that got them back to the playoffs, tried to maximize the last peak years of G and Voracek and Simmonds. Problem was when you patch your way to the playoffs, it's not sustainable. Fletcher wasn't going to make waves and jeopardize his job, so he crossed his fingers and tried to muddle through. Which probably bought him a year. As long as the POB have power, they'll never rebuild.

The development argument is BS, if the Flyers had talented players they weren't developing, other teams would buy low and we'd see those players emerge elsewhere - we see that all over the league. The fact that those prospects did nothing elsewhere suggests scouting, and overvaluing their own players, was the real problem. These kids are only in the system for a year or two, most were in college, otherwise juniors until 20. You see Twarynski, Bunnaman, Myers, Rubtsov, Vorobyev et al do anything after they left? Ghost is the same player in Arizona that he was in 2018-19, he just got healthy.

If you had the power - would you fire Chuck Fletcher today, as in fully off the team - and not just some kind of promotion.

 

[freakydallas13]

If you had the power - would you fire Chuck Fletcher today, as in fully off the team - and not just some kind of promotion.

"No because you see nothing he did was his fault...."

*17 paragraphs later*

".... And of course it's Hextall's fault really. I do not defend Chuck."

I'm confused, are you saying Chuck is incompetent, or you just attempting to deflect a joke with while not addressing the fact that Chuck claimed the opposite of what you are claiming now?

Please elaborate.

@deadhead you never elaborated. Can you please clarify for me?