Post-Game Talk: #61: FLYERS at Canadiens, Thursday, Feb. 21, 2019, 7:30 pm ET

[Starat327]

Part of the reason it looks like other teams are much faster than the Flyers is the way they carry speed through the neutral zone. Yes, breakout design is a big part of that, as is the state of Hagg and MacDonald, but so is Forward personnel and I don't mean from a speed standpoint.

They have exactly one Forward you can scheme up space for on a breakout and reasonably expect a controlled zone entry. One. Until that changes, your transition game isn't going to generate true threat on a consistent basis with 6 Hampus Lindholms back there. Foot speed would be nice, but speed of threat transference is what I want most from a Forward right now.

Panarin is ideal. I don't really care what the number is unless we're getting towards 14. The difference between signing Panarin at 11 and 13 is that you have to churn one more roster spot with reasonable quality, which happens to be coming in spades.

you know what, Jojo? Nobody wants your logic, alright. Take it elsewhere. We'd like to continue talking about how poor all our good players are.

 

[baudib1]

you know what, Jojo? Nobody wants your logic, alright. Take it elsewhere. We'd like to continue talking about how poor all our good players are.

He at least had the courtesy of not pissing off half the board by telling them the only guy who can make controlled entries on the fly is Voracek.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

you know what, Jojo? Nobody wants your logic, alright. Take it elsewhere. We'd like to continue talking about how poor all our good players are.

I apologize profusely and would like to submit my revised version, pending approval.

I think we should work towards a Laberge-Vecchione-Puljujarvi front line.

 

[Ruck Over]

I apologize profusely and would like to submit my revised version, pending approval.

I think we should work towards a Laberge-Vecchione-Puljujarvi front line.

Riser in the draft - NCAA Champion - High draft pick with great WJC experience

Can't fail!

 

[baudib1]

It only took 10 days for this to become a thing

Prediction: Myers will be great from the start and we'll wonder why it took Fletcher 20+ games to get him in Philly.

GDT: - #56 Penguins at FLYERS, Monday, Feb. 11, 2019, 7:00 pm ET

Charlie O'Connor:
Canadiens 5, Flyers 1: 10 things we learned from a blowout...

Myers is 6-foot-5-plus skater who is already physically strong enough to take on pretty much anyone at the NHL level, even at age 22. Combine those tools with his natural attacking mentality, and you’re left with something like the anti-Andrew MacDonald — who lacks high-end skills and mostly plays a low-risk style without the puck, preferring to keep opponents to the outside rather than actively trying to jar the puck loose. It remains to be seen whether Myers’ style will manifest itself in strong long-term results at the NHL level, but last night it certainly did — he posted a fantastic 71.43% Corsi For Percentage and an even-better 86.99% rate by Expected Goals.

 

[deadhead]

The (lack of) skill of AMac, Hagg and Simmer is definitely a problem.

They're more scapegoats than anything else.

AMac and Hagg have seen a steady decline in their minutes, yet the team plays worse.
And Simmonds is in a 3rd line role, most good teams don't roll more than two lines that can score, so he can't be the primary reason we struggle.

Upgrading the 3rd pair and bottom six will make a slight improvement in this team, but it's not the panacea that will fix all ills. Neither will a new coach.

This team has average speed up front and one of the smallest D-men groups in the NHL.
Unless you upgrade with quality players (i.e. replace Simmons with a fast forward with top six potential, Morin is for real, replace MacDonald with a veteran top four RHD), who cares?

Complete rebuilds take about 7 years or so, we're in year 5, we need to keep adding talent. We don't have enough.

 

[deadhead]

It only took 10 days for this to become a thing

GDT: - #56 Penguins at FLYERS, Monday, Feb. 11, 2019, 7:00 pm ET

Charlie O'Connor:
Canadiens 5, Flyers 1: 10 things we learned from a blowout...

Though one reason Myers looks so comfortable was playing him 20 minutes a night in the AHL to start the season and letting him build confidence and enough experience so that the NHL isn't an overwhelming experience.

Chicken and egg sort of thing, you only know if a player is ready after the fact. And even then - which is the real Hart? The one on the great win streak or the one who just laid two eggs?

 

[baudib1]

Seven years is an arbitrary number Hextall pulled out of his ass to create more time for himself. Other franchises turn things around in much quicker time.

Winnipeg went from 78 points to 114 in two years. Call it four years if you want to start at the beginning of Maurice's tenure.

Nashville was out of the playoffs in 2013-14, fired its coach, and made the SCF in three years.

 

[baudib1]

Though one reason Myers looks so comfortable was playing him 20 minutes a night in the AHL to start the season and letting him build confidence and enough experience so that the NHL isn't an overwhelming experience.

Or maybe he's just a good player who's been better than Hagg and AMac for a long time.

 

[Curufinwe]

We've been screaming at Fletcher to get Myers in the lineup since early January when MacDonald got hurt and he had the perfect chance to give the kid a go.

 

[Rebels57]

Seven years is an arbitrary number Hextall pulled out of his ass to create more time for himself. Other franchises turn things around in much quicker time.

Winnipeg went from 78 points to 114 in two years. Call it four years if you want to start at the beginning of Maurice's tenure.

Nashville was out of the playoffs in 2013-14, fired its coach, and made the SCF in three years.

What Hextall actually said was "it won't take 5 years."

Then as we entered his 5th season he moved the goal post and basically said the first 2 years didn't count.

He didn' know how to build a winner. Plain and simple. It was evident 2 years ago. Drafting is only one part of the equation.

 

[Rebels57]

We've been screaming at Fletcher to get Myers in the lineup since early January when MacDonald got hurt and he had the perfect chance to give the kid a go.

Definitely needed to get Christian Folin in there

 

[Curufinwe]

Seven years is an arbitrary number Hextall pulled out of his ass to create more time for himself. Other franchises turn things around in much quicker time.

Winnipeg went from 78 points to 114 in two years. Call it four years if you want to start at the beginning of Maurice's tenure.

They missed the playoffs in 5 out of their first 6 seasons in Winnipeg, and were swept the one time they did make it before 17-18. Chevy took 7 years to make the Jets into a team that could win playoff rounds.

List of Winnipeg Jets seasons - Wikipedia

On June 8, 2011, Cheveldayoff was unveiled as the new general manager of the new Winnipeg Jets, replacing Rick Dudley

 

[baudib1]

They missed the playoffs in 5 out of their first 6 seasons in Winnipeg, and were swept the one time they did make it before 17-18.

List of Winnipeg Jets seasons - Wikipedia

I don't know what your point is here. Is it semantics? Are you still rebuilding after a 114-point season?

 

[baudib1]

We've been screaming at Fletcher to get Myers in the lineup since early January when MacDonald got hurt and he had the perfect chance to give the kid a go.

Some of us wanted Myers in the lineup since training camp as well. And there was an AMac injury early in the year that was also a perfect chance to give the kid a go.

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't know what your point is here. Is it semantics? Are you still rebuilding after a 114-point season?

Semantics? The 78 point season you picked as the point after which the Jets turned things around was their GM's fifth season in charge of the team.

 

[Striiker]

Definitely needed to get Christian Folin in there

I still say Folin is better than Hagg or MacDonald.

 

[Rebels57]

I still say Folin is better than Hagg or MacDonald.

He definitely is. You barely notice him. Hagg and MacDonald are very noticable in a bad way.

 

[Striiker]

He definitely is. You barely notice him. Hagg and MacDonald are very noticable in a bad way.

Exactly!

I don't expect our #7 to be great... just don't completely f*** us every time you're on the ice, the way Hagg, Mac, and Manning have these last few years. Folin is invisible 90% of the time, which is perfect.

 

[baudib1]

Semantics? The 78 point season you picked as the point after which the Jets turned things around was their GM's fifth season in charge of the team.

The tenure of GMs doesn't necessarily decide endpoints in rebuilding processes, as evidenced by deadhead saying this is only year 5, which would mean he's counting it as starting at the start of the Hextall era, and Hextall isn't here anymore.

I chose to start from their lowest point or the hiring of Paul Maurice two years earlier.

 

[Rebels57]

Exactly!

I don't expect our #7 to be great... just don't completely **** us every time you're on the ice, the way Hagg, Mac, and Manning have these last few years. Folin is invisible 90% of the time, which is perfect.

Mark Alt was also better than Hagg, Mac, and Manning in that role.

 

[Curufinwe]

Which makes no sense, because the Jets were rebuilding the whole time. And it took seven years for them to turn into a powerhouse.

 

[baudib1]

Which makes no sense, because the Jets were rebuilding the whole time. And it took seven years for them to turn into a powerhouse.

It's a different rebuild when they hire a new coach and trade the guy (Evander Kane) who was seen as the cornerstone to their rebuilding process.

On the other hand, you can say the Flyers have been rebuilding for 43 years.

 

[Curufinwe]

Evander Kane was never seen as a corner stone.

Maurice was hired in 2013. The 78 point season was his third year as head coach.

Paul Maurice - Wikipedia

 

[deadhead]

They missed the playoffs in 5 out of their first 6 seasons in Winnipeg, and were swept the one time they did make it before 17-18. Chevy took 7 years to make the Jets into a team that could win playoff rounds.

List of Winnipeg Jets seasons - Wikipedia

Chicago and LA took that long to build their SC teams:
Chicago, missed playoffs 4 years, lost in 1st rd, missed playoffs 5 more years
LA, missed playoffs 6 years, lost in 1st rd next two years
Toronto, missed playoffs 7 years, lost in 1st rd, missed playoffs 3 years, lost in 1st rd next two years
Even TB, missed playoffs 3 years, lost in 1st rd, missed playoffs 6 years, won Cup two years later, missed playoffs 3 years, lost in CF, missed playoffs 2 more years.

You can slap together a team that makes the playoffs once or twice then folds in a couple years
But if you want to build a SC contender from scratch, it takes a long time.