Post-Game Talk: #60| Capitals at FLYERS | Wednesday, February 22, 2017

[Delete99991]

An opinion which cannot be reconciled with the fact he has the 2nd highest shooting percentage on the team, and the 2nd most 5 on 5 goals, behind only Simmonds who has played 16 extra games.

You're kidding, right?

All his goals - I think literally every one this season - are either off a deflection, a jam-in from the crease area, or an empty-netter.

He NEVER creates shots and outside of the odd centering pass into a crowd doesn't create much overall.

You guys gotta stop this spreadsheet bs. We all watch every game, or most games. You are absolutely fooling yourself if you think his level of offensive play is acceptable for his role.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yep, you've firmly crossed into the Irrational Jeff Carter Hate Realm. "His goals don't count as much as other goals because of how they're scored."

 

[hatcher]

You're kidding, right?

All his goals - I think literally every one this season - are either off a deflection, a jam-in from the crease area, or an empty-netter.

He NEVER creates shots and outside of the odd centering pass into a crowd doesn't create much overall.

You guys gotta stop this spreadsheet bs. We all watch every game, or most games. You are absolutely fooling yourself if you think his level of offensive play is acceptable for his role.

HAHAHAHA Coots creats nothing. Line killer forsure.

 

[Beef Invictus]

HAHAHAHA Coots creats nothing. Line killer forsure.

Why does every player produce at a higher rate with Couturier?

 

[Striiker]

You're kidding, right?

All his goals - I think literally every one this season - are either off a deflection, a jam-in from the crease area, or an empty-netter.

He NEVER creates shots and outside of the odd centering pass into a crowd doesn't create much overall.

You guys gotta stop this spreadsheet bs. We all watch every game, or most games. You are absolutely fooling yourself if you think his level of offensive play is acceptable for his role.

Do those not count?

So how many of Simmonds goals count this year?

 

[SuchySays]

All his goals - I think literally every one this season - are either off a deflection, a jam-in from the crease area, or an empty-netter.

I didn't know sniped goals counted more than these. Thanks for that.

 

[cymbalizm]

I don't see how someone can watch this team this season and come to this conclusion.

They really need an upgrade at C. It's crystal clear at this point.

Don't get me wrong, it's in no way ideal. But if you have voracek, simmonds, schenn, konecny, a decent FA pickup, maybe weal, maybe a lindblom call-up, all playing well or even decent, add in a fourth line that isn't just a complete pushover, I'm saying things could be much worse just for next year. The impending defensive and (hopefully) bottom 6 upgrade is gonna take immense pressure off of the offense as a whole, specifically the centers.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I rather not bank on Laughton & Cousins again. They need to acquire a legitimate 3C option for next year. Sadly I think Bellemare will be defaulted a spot again anyway next year.

 

[hatcher]

Why does every player produce at a higher rate with Couturier?

Doesn't say much.

 

[cymbalizm]

Making a move for hanzal could be big, but don't really know the logistics there. Hope you're wrong about bellemare, fear you're right

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Hanzal will be way too much and he's often injured. No thanks.

 

[Crescent Street]

I didn't know sniped goals counted more than these. Thanks for that.

This crap has to stop. He was responding to the shooting % statistic as an evaluator of Couturier's offensive ability. It would be different if he were a pure shooter or had a worthwhile wrister or slap shot. But he doesn't. He scores garbage goals and using shooting % as some metric to quantify his offensive ability in a 2nd line role is outrageous.

Yes a goal is a goal, no matter how it's scored. But to use shooting % to form an argument for Coots offensive prowess is ridiculous.

 

[Appleyard]

Hanzal will be way too much and he's often injured. No thanks.

Plus with less PP time the stats say he would score like Couturier... even though Couturier has played harder minutes than him.

Seasons non-PP PPG 2013-17:

Couturier: 0.42
Hanzal: 0.43

I mean... he would be an upgrade in middle six... but we'd be paying $5m+ for a guy who basically scores like Couturier in easier minutes while not being as effective defensively.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I still like Namestnikov from Tampa as a potential trade piece. He's still young & doesnt cost much in cap/salary. He'll be in his last year of his current contract next year but he's an RFA & shouldn't cost a lot on his next contract. I also don't think he'll cost a lot in trade assets either. Maybe a pick or two but it shouldn't cost a first rounder.

Lindblom - Giroux - Simmonds
Konecny - Couturier - Voracek
Raffl - Namestnikov - Schenn
Lyubimov - Cousins - Weise
Laughton

That would be ideal to me but I highly suspect at least Bellemare will be back.

 

[Delete99991]

Do those not count?

So how many of Simmonds goals count this year?

As Crescent says, I was rebutting a counterclaim to my point that Couturier takes low-percentage perimeter shots (or no shot at all, more often).

Read the whole dialogue before auto-arguing, please.

 

[Delete99991]

I still like Namestnikov from Tampa as a potential trade piece. He's still young & doesnt cost much in cap/salary. He'll be in his last year of his current contract next year but he's an RFA & shouldn't cost a lot on his next contract. I also don't think he'll cost a lot in trade assets either. Maybe a pick or two but it shouldn't cost a first rounder.

I agree. If he's available and there isn't a sense he wants a monster deal I'd be very interested.

 

[Striiker]

Funny that, when talking about Couturier, it's only total points that matter, not 5v5 production.

But when it's Giroux, 5v5 production is all that matters, not total points.

 

[cymbalizm]

we'd be paying $5m+

wow, yeah, no thanks Marty

 

[Striiker]

As Crescent says, I was rebutting a counterclaim to my point that Couturier takes low-percentage perimeter shots (or no shot at all, more often).

Read the whole dialogue before auto-arguing, please.

How was anyone supposed to know that you were singling out the shooting percentage part of that post instead of what you should have been focused on, which is 2nd most 5v5 goals?

I guess I gave you too much credit and thought you'd be focused on the right part.

 

[LI Fly Guy]

Funny that, when talking about Couturier, it's only total points that matter, not 5v5 production.

But when it's Giroux, 5v5 production is all that matters, not total points.

The whole argument is tiresome. Points are points and production is production. I don't mind relying heavily on the power play as long as we don't give up goals 5V5. That seems to be the plan but the PP has gone cold. Couturier has been a good player and will continue to improve.

These stat guys are funny. They've told us for years how amazing of a player Raffl is, now they bury a guy like Schenn because his goals are only on the power play. I'll take the 60 point guy regardless how he gets them any day. Thanks.

 

[Delete99991]

Striiker's posts are 72 for a Coots snob in tone and snark. Very teenager-y.

Always up on his high horse while this team continues to dwindle.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

X

X

Ok, so no attitude at all. This is so all over the place I can't keep track of it anymore. What do you guys want Couturier to do that he doesn't? Please don't say points.

 

[Delete99991]

My goal here is to eliminate this fog of propaganda that surrounds this player. He is playing absolutely marginal hockey and has been for well over a year.

Here's what I think happened: we all (myself included) fell in love with the guy in that Pittsburgh series. We decided "here's what he already is - elite defensively and capable of a hat trick on the road in the playoffs - and here's what he will be: 60 points and Selkes".

None of that has materialized, and in fact he has regressed. Nobody even refutes these basic points: he is not a great skater (or at least, his speed and burst are average to below average). He can't shoot. He can't pass. He doesn't create.

I am also not sure whether he's elite defensively, or merely responsible and high-IQ.

I just want real critical discussion about him Jojo, that's all. He's not what we hoped he'd be.

 

[LI Fly Guy]

My goal here is to eliminate this fog of propaganda that surrounds this player. He is playing absolutely marginal hockey and has been for well over a year.

Here's what I think happened: we all (myself included) fell in love with the guy in that Pittsburgh series. We decided "here's what he already is - elite defensively and capable of a hat trick on the road in the playoffs - and here's what he will be: 60 points and Selkes".

None of that has materialized, and in fact he has regressed. Nobody even refutes these basic points: he is not a great skater (or at least, his speed and burst are average to below average). He can't shoot. He can't pass. He doesn't create.

I am also not sure whether he's elite defensively, or merely responsible and high-IQ.

I just want real critical discussion about him Jojo, that's all. He's not what we hoped he'd be.

I'm willing to concede he's been a disappointment. But he definitely plays defense at a selke level but that's a reputation award. I think realistcly he's a 45-50 point shutdown guy if he stays healthy for a year.

 

[Striiker]

One of the reasons this stupid discussion comes up constantly is the anti-Couturier people exaggerate so much.

"Zero offense" "line killer" "zero skill" etc etc etc.

Then the pro-Couturier people jump on that and suddenly it's 10 pages of this **** all over again.