Post-Game Talk: #6| FLYERS at Chicago |Tue., Oct. 21, 2014

[flyershockey]

and I am not going to get on Umberger. yet. Hartnell had at least 2 seasons where he didn't do anything for the first couple weeks of the season. One of them being last year. If Umberger is like this in a few weeks than its an issue.

Umberger is actually pretty good positionally. He's just not nearly quick enough to make plays like he was five years ago.

 

[Fire Tortorella]

and I am not going to get on Umberger. yet. Hartnell had at least 2 seasons where he didn't do anything for the first couple weeks of the season. One of them being last year. If Umberger is like this in a few weeks than its an issue.

I've never seen a forward be as invisible as Umberger 2 weeks into the season. I can literally only think of a few plays (both positive and negative) that he's been involved in this season.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I've never seen a forward be as invisible as Umberger 2 weeks into the season. I can literally only think of a few plays (both positive and negative) that he's been involved in this season.

I am trying to remember what Hartnell did last year for the first 2 weeks.
still cant think of anything.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I am trying to remember what Hartnell did last year for the first 2 weeks.
still cant think of anything.

He actively sucked. In a very visible way.

 

[Funf]

You know, for as good as the Couts line looked in the first game or two, 2/3's of it look completely invisible now. As does the Schenn/Simmonds line. If I were Berube I'd think I'd have to cut my losses, realize that the Schenn line is never going to look as good as I want it, and put Simmonds back with Couturier so we have two dominant lines again (counting the Giroux line). Rolling 4 lines is pointless if you're watering down the top 2 so that the bottom 2 aren't complete wastes.

And as far as the D goes, there's just no way to salvage the mess other than developing our prospects. This team is in a transition period right now, and I can't be too upset with games like last night. It was awful to watch, but I'm not going to start pointing fingers and calling for trades, because virtually everyone on the team right now is in over their heads.

 

[Curufinwe]

I remember saying losing Kimmo could be what keeps them out of the playoffs this season, and someone telling me one player isn't the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs.

 

[FlyersFanz]

I am trying to remember what Hartnell did last year for the first 2 weeks.
still cant think of anything.

Fell down a lot from what I can remember..

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, Simmonds looked great with Couturier and Read. So Berube splits them up as fast as he can.

Berube Hockey!


Edit: I'm so ****ing tired of him breaking things that work to try and fix things that are broken. Don't do that.

 

[Embiid]

I remember saying losing Kimmo could be what keeps them out of the playoffs this season, and someone telling me one player isn't the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs.

Yeah some of the culprits can be found in this thread

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1746713

 

[YEM]

I remember saying losing Kimmo could be what keeps them out of the playoffs this season, and someone telling me one player isn't the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs.

a 40 year old #44 who had started to slow considerably last season wasn't going to propel this team to the lofty heights of the playoffs

 

[Curufinwe]

39 year old Kimmo was still good enough to form a 55 CF% pairing with Coburn, and be the 2nd defensemen in shorthanded ice time.

 

[Schmidty324]

a 40 year old #44 who had started to slow considerably last season wasn't going to propel this team to the lofty heights of the playoffs

You underestimate the Finnish God of Defense

 

[Curufinwe]

 

[Beef Invictus]

Even a declining Timonen would be an enormous boost to the D. The guy has been declining for years and has remained an integral part of the D nonetheless.

 

[Embiid]

a 40 year old #44 who had started to slow considerably last season wasn't going to propel this team to the lofty heights of the playoffs

Not how you start but how you finish...or is that FINNISH! He was a big catalyst last year in the second half in making the playoffs. So your argument is not valid....

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

I remember saying losing Kimmo could be what keeps them out of the playoffs this season, and someone telling me one player isn't the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs.

We would have struggled without Timonen, but I'm not convinced that the team wouldn't end up fighting for a 7-8 seed. Without Timonen AND Coburn? That's a different story.

 

[YEM]

Not how you start but how you finish...or is that FINNISH! He was a big catalyst last year in the second half in making the playoffs. So your argument is not valid....

the fact that the remaining 5 defenders sans Coburn are the blueline equivalent of a steaming fresh pile of cow plop dressed in flyers sweaters would invalidate your argument re: a 40 year old #44 right off the bat but I tried to be civil.

 

[Embiid]

the fact that the remaining 5 defenders sans Coburn are the blueline equivalent of a steaming fresh pile of cow plop dressed in flyers sweaters would invalidate your argument re: a 40 year old #44 right off the bat but I tried to be civil.

The issue with the defense corps is the pairings are not complementary more than anything...yeah Grossmann and Schenn are two of the weaker links and their NHL stock keeps dropping but the loss of Timonen screwed up the continuity of the pairings..then Coburn went down and ushered in hades. It was a big snowball effect that started with the loss of Timonen. Look who he was replaced with...MDZ...LMAO. Then you had to compensate with AMac playing 28mins a game...that is 28 mins of a dude giving up entry zones more than a hooker. There is an entire context here with the loss of Timonen you too easily discount....

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Yeah, Simmonds looked great with Couturier and Read. So Berube splits them up as fast as he can.

Berube Hockey!


Edit: I'm so ****ing tired of him breaking things that work to try and fix things that are broken. Don't do that.

more like break things that work, to make pairings that dont work... then stick with them...

 

[Funf]

You know, we only made the playoffs by like, 3 points last year. It's not unimaginable to think that having a top defensive pairing isn't going to prevent like, 2 goals against, get us one win in a one goal game, or get us to OT in another. That's all it takes. Timonen can certainly be that difference.

 

[YEM]

It was a big snowball effect that started with the loss of Timonen. Look who he was replaced with...MDZ...LMAO. Then you had to compensate with AMac playing 28mins a game...that is 28 mins of a dude giving up entry zones more than a hooker. There is an entire context here with the loss of Timonen you too easily discount....

that is a fairer point, but he's 40, he could have retired in June rather than experiencing the unfortunate health issues. And a lot of folks expected him to possibly retire after the Olympic year.

You know, we only made the playoffs by like, 3 points last year. It's not unimaginable to think that having a top defensive pairing isn't going to prevent like, 2 goals against, get us one win in a one goal game, or get us to OT in another. That's all it takes. Timonen can certainly be that difference.

OR...#44 continues to regress/slow down as he turns 40 and he's seen as part of the problem rather than the solution & his play costs you a few points going the other way...

 

[Curufinwe]

MDZ-Schenn have been on the ice for 10/17 ES goals against so far. That's what losing Kimmo has meant.

 

[Beef Invictus]

MDZ-Schenn have been on the ice for 10/17 ES goals against so far. That's what losing Kimmo has meant.

at 5v5, It's 10ga for the both of them according to Behindthenet. The rest of the D is 0, 2, 5, 6, 6; I'm not gonna sit down and work out overlap and such.


On the PK Grossmann is far and away the worst Dman with 4 GA. Schenn has 3, but also has more ice time per game.

 

[Embiid]

that is a fairer point, but he's 40, he could have retired in June rather than experiencing the unfortunate health issues. And a lot of folks expected him to possibly retire after the Olympic year.


OR...#44 continues to regress/slow down as he turns 40 and he's seen as part of the problem rather than the solution & his play costs you a few points going the other way...

Btw..meant so say zone entries...

Anyway, what is with this 40 year old hang up...yeah I mean he had slowed but as he showed in the second half last year..he was still one of if not our best defender. If the Flyers had kept Jagr he would still be a big catalyst at 40+ especially with G. Timonen even at 40 is still in that elite class of vets like Jags that provide so much even in a limited role. I remember how Mark Howe was so important when he played with his shot back.....the Flyers record was much better with him in the game than out.....

 

[Funf]

that is a fairer point, but he's 40, he could have retired in June rather than experiencing the unfortunate health issues. And a lot of folks expected him to possibly retire after the Olympic year.


OR...#44 continues to regress/slow down as he turns 40 and he's seen as part of the problem rather than the solution & his play costs you a few points going the other way...

Isn't he still a better option than Grossmann or MDZ though? Besides, that's a big hypothetical.

There's no way to know for sure how he'd perform either way, but I've always given Kimmo the benefit of doubt. He thinks the game so well, that there's a real solid chance that he's on the ice for one or two less goals than Grossmann or MDZ would be.

Seriously, just watching Grossmann, Schenn, MDZ, or whoever else continually make glaring errors on D, it's unimaginable to think that Kimmo wouldn't be an improvement over them.