Post-Game Talk: #6| FLYERS at Chicago |Tue., Oct. 21, 2014

[McNasty]

It really shows when you watch Chicago play just how bad this team is at puck retrieval in all three zones. Defense to a forward to another supporting forward in the blink of an eye. Our defensemen aren't capable of making that first pass which throws off the support swinging in the neutral zone. That then often leads to only one guy entering the offensive zone with any semblance of speed. By then, at least four players are back in good defensive position to defend the Flyers' two man forecheck.

The Flyers are a pretty slow team. They're not going to get much clean movement at all through the neutral zone without those clean, crisp head-man passes.

Let's be fair the breakout problems aren't just on the defense. The forwards are also guilty of hard to handle passes, and they typically all just spread out and rely on one person getting a pass at our blueline and skating it to center.

 

[Curufinwe]

So Berube plays him with Meszaros and MDZ. Two riverboat gamblers who can't defend.

 

[flyershockey]

Let's be fair the breakout problems aren't just on the defense. The forwards are also guilty of hard to handle passes, and they typically all just spread out and rely on one person getting a pass at our blueline and skating it to center.

It's a flow thing that starts with the defense though. A clean breakout relies on passes arriving when and where they're supposed to. That's why these guys have whole practices dedicated to flow drills. Without that flow, the forwards aren't going to be able to support each other as they try and move through the neutral zone. Everyone gets standing still and the only guy with any speed is the one carrying the puck.

 

[Embiid]

I think I'm impressed that Luke has the ability to see that happening, if that counts for anything.

His problem is clearly when the opposition gains the zone like he said because his lack of footspeed causes him to run around especially when he has a partner in MDZ who roves all around....and makes high risk pinches that create turnovers (zone entries). Schenn himself is not horrible at zone entries along the boards....although you attack him with enough speed on the outside and he is pretty much cooked especially if he is having to overthink b/c of an irresponsible defensive partner.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

So Berube plays him with Meszaros and MDZ. Two riverboat gamblers who can't defend.

There are very real questions to be asked about whether Berube is the right coach to handle a rebuild/transition.

- Handling of Gustafsson
- Handling of L. Schenn
- Constantly changing B. Schenn's role
- Tripling down on Couturier's purely defensive role

That's not to say that he hasn't been limited by both exigent and unforeseen circumstances or hampered by a lack of alternatives.

 

[flyershockey]

He's not. He did well to get these guys in shape after they gave up on Lavy, but he hasn't really accomplished much else with this group. And as you said, he's having a definite negative impact on the young guys.

He wants to be a coach like Claude Julien. He wants to roll four lines and pressure the puck all over the ice. The problem is that he doesn't have the personnel to do it, nor can he make a single adjustment to get more out of the roster.

 

[Bernie Parent 1974]

how this team can sleep at night after saying "our 1st period effort was embarrassing" is beyond me.

they rarely play a full 60 minute game. havent for years.

shameful

 

[JABEE]

I think this is the year for the Flyers to unload some contracts if they can. No one on the current defense is salvageable other than maybe Streit. If you can move him though and get something, you maybe should do it. Get picks off desperate playoff teams. Rebuild now. Suck for McDavid.

They are doing a good enough job of it now.

 

[Flyotes]

Same mantra the last two years.

"Full 60 minutes" and "Embarrassed" and "need to do a better job (i wonder if they have to pay Andy Reid every time they say this)."

I've been saying well over a year that the depth behind Hartnell was crap. They trade Hartnell (fine) -- but run a risky plan to secure the position (Schenn). This is the NHL. Can't just hope for the best on SL1. Needed to resolve this in the offseason.

So dopey unless they simply assumed this year was a wash.

 

[kjbhockey]

Unfortunately I was in attendance last night and it was one of the worst Flyers games I've ever been to in the 15 years I've been going to games. Imagine if we were in the Western conference, we would get creamed every night. I didn't expect them to win last night but honestly they couldn't even make a pass. Here is what I saw last night:

*Absolutely terrible at breaking out of the d-zone. They just dump into the neutral zone and pray.
*Defensive system has to change. I saw the hawks overlap at center ice (wing & center) and the dman make a tap to tap pass that allowed them to break right up the middle and push the defenders back at least 10 times.
*Tons of errant passes where we could've even tell who the intended receiver was.
*Raffl/Bellemare, these guys are 4th liners who maybe can spot fill on the 3rd line. Not top six guys.
*Luke Schenn, I don't think I need to go any further.
*Mason, looked shaky most of the night. Not swallowing pucks.
*The talent gap between the Hawks and the Flyers is as wide the grand canyon. We have a long way to go before we can complete with a caliber of team like that. If we played them 10 times we would lose 9.
*I was feet from Hextall in the pressbox. Visibly frustrating with their play. He prob knew this was coming which is why he asked for draft pick protection in 2015 with the rumored trade with Florida.
*For all of those who wanted to get rid Coburn I think you got a pretty good idea of what our D will look without him. Not pretty at all, top 3 pick bound.
*Schenn, Grossman, Del Zotto played terrible. I know Hexy was trying to protect Ghost and Morin from this team by not allowing them to play bc if you watched the pre-season on play alone those guys should've been on this team.

Sorry for the rant but that was one of the worst displays of hockey I've ever seen in person.

 

[JABEE]

Same mantra the last two years.

"Full 60 minutes" and "Embarrassed" and "need to do a better job (i wonder if they have to pay Andy Reid every time they say this)."

I've been saying well over a year that the depth behind Hartnell was crap. They trade Hartnell (fine) -- but run a risky plan to secure the position (Schenn). This is the NHL. Can't just hope for the best on SL1. Needed to resolve this in the offseason.

So dopey unless they simply assumed this year was a wash.

I have been saying this since preseason. It appears that the Flyers see this season as a wash. If you're going to do it, at least get a high pick. There is no way they went into the season with this defense without thinking this was a real possibility.

Hextall isn't going to bring up our young defensemen that beat our current starters for their spots in a fair competition that didn't take into account cap hits.

 

[swflyers93]

*Mason, looked shaky most of the night. Not swallowing pucks

I disagree on this point. For a while in the first period, he kept the Flyers in game with some great saves. I don't blame Mason for the way the season is going so far. It's like it was the Hawks versus Mason for most of the game. At different points in the game, the Flyers were doing a good job at backchecking but then it just all went to hell.

 

[Curufinwe]

Six icings last night, two by Giroux.

 

[FlyersFanz]

Sorry guys, I turned the game off last night at the end of the 1st period. Couldn't watch the train wreck anymore.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I disagree on this point. For a while in the first period, he kept the Flyers in game with some great saves. I don't blame Mason for the way the season is going so far. It's like it was the Hawks versus Mason for most of the game. .

^^^cuz thats exactly what it was..

 

[Dirty but Good]

It really shows when you watch Chicago play just how bad this team is at puck retrieval in all three zones. Defense to a forward to another supporting forward in the blink of an eye. Our defensemen aren't capable of making that first pass which throws off the support swinging in the neutral zone. That then often leads to only one guy entering the offensive zone with any semblance of speed. By then, at least four players are back in good defensive position to defend the Flyers' two man forecheck.

The Flyers are a pretty slow team. They're not going to get much clean movement at all through the neutral zone without those clean, crisp head-man passes.

This is pretty much word for word what I wanted to say last night. The Blackhawks seem to have a plan for an offensive rush starting in their defensive zone when breaking out.

The Flyers make breaking out of the zone, getting the puck through the neutral zone, and creating offensive pressure three entirely different things once they attempt to break out. As a result they are terrible at all three and have no flow to their game.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I think this is the year for the Flyers to unload some contracts if they can. No one on the current defense is salvageable other than maybe Streit. If you can move him though and get something, you maybe should do it. Get picks off desperate playoff teams. Rebuild now. Suck for McDavid.

They are doing a good enough job of it now.

Streit has been the Flyers best defenseman. I am not looking to trade him.

 

[Teezax]

Hey maybe we'll get Babcock in the offseason.....#onecandream

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I know Mason hasn't been as sharp as he was last season so far but I would put him pretty low on the list of the blame list. Could he be better? sure but the guy is seeing a lot of high quality rubber this season and the guy can only do so much.
I do worry about his confidence tho because you have to start to think the guy is going to start taking it personally the way things are going when he shouldn't. Confidence was an issue in CBJ. I really hope he doesn't lose it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, this team is going to be atrocious defensively even with a shutdown line of XXX-Couturier-Read. The only way the Flyers are winning games this year is if they try to outscore their defensive problems. Might as well try and get Couturier some softer minutes to not completely destroy the development of his offensive game. Lavy and Berube may have already done that though with the way they've used him in the first three years of his career, unfortunately.

I've been chucking coal into the boiler of this "ALL OFFENSE SCREW DEFENSE" train for a couple days now.

What's the worst that happens? We lose games? HA!

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

and I am not going to get on Umberger. yet. Hartnell had at least 2 seasons where he didn't do anything for the first couple weeks of the season. One of them being last year. If Umberger is like this in a few weeks than its an issue.

 

[flyershockey]

I've been chucking coal into the boiler of this "ALL OFFENSE SCREW DEFENSE" train for a couple days now.

What's the worst that happens? We lose games? HA!

Pretty much. There's no fixing this defense as it's currently constructed. Might as well try to keep developing the young forwards on this team that have a chance of getting better. Beating Couturier and Read into the ground with impossible defensive assignments is only going to stunt Couturier's offensive game and take years off of Read's career. And for what? To try and protect Grossmann, Schenn and MDZ a little bit? Let them be exposed so it forces Hextall's hand into making the moves needed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

At this point last year Hartnell could be pointed to as a major reason the offense was struggling, he would singlehandedly suck so badly. The fact that Umberger isn't doing that is a net positive right now, but he's not gonna be as good as Hartnell when he gets going...though Hartnell didn't really do that last year either.

 

[Teezax]

It's a shame the ignorant will look at our stats and make the assumption that they have been making for years.. "Flyers need a goalie, they haven't addressed that need in decades" etc
Mason will get the blame for this, and he is clearly undeserving of being branded the scapegoat. Being left alone every game on numerous occasions has to be taxing. I just hope his psyche doesn't deteriorate having to deal wit this all year. It's these same issues that left him demotivated in Columbus.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Pretty much. There's no fixing this defense as it's currently constructed. Might as well try to keep developing the young forwards on this team that have a chance of getting better. Beating Couturier and Read into the ground with impossible defensive assignments is only going to stunt Couturier's offensive game and take years off of Read's career. And for what? To try and protect Grossmann, Schenn and MDZ a little bit? Let them be exposed so it forces Hextall's hand into making the moves needed.

Unfortunately I don't think Berube is capable of this.