Completely disagree. Provorov and Sanheim are not ready yet. They are still young in dman years. The D as a whole was terrible last night. Sanheim was bad....no way around it. I love the kid but he and Provorov would benefit so much from a minutes-eating NHL Vet. If they got a top4 NHL d-man next year with Hart; they would be a legit Cup contender. If they make no moves on the blue line; they will be the same as in the last few years. And Myers and Morin could very well have an effect on Gostisbehere. If they both prove to be NHL caliber in quick fashion then the D surplus could be used as a tradeable assets. Who that d-man is will remain to be seen if they prove good enough to make the lineup.
Post-Game Talk: #59: FLYERS 3 at Red Wings 1, Sunday, Feb. 17, 2019, 6:00 pm ET
- Thread starter MiamiScreamingEagles
- Start date
Completely disagree. Provorov and Sanheim are not ready yet. They are still young in dman years. The D as a whole was terrible last night. Sanheim was bad....no way around it. I love the kid but he and Provorov would benefit so much from a minutes-eating NHL Vet. If they got a top4 NHL d-man next year with Hart; they would be a legit Cup contender. If they make no moves on the blue line; they will be the same as in the last few years. And Myers and Morin could very well have an effect on Gostisbehere. If they both prove to be NHL caliber in quick fashion then the D surplus could be used as a tradeable assets. Who that d-man is will remain to be seen if they prove good enough to make the lineup.
kudymen
Hakstok was a fascist clique hiver lickballs.gif
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
If the odd bad game means they're not ready then there's not a single top 4 defensemen in this league.
The defense is perfectly fine if used correctly. None of them should be traded and nobody needs to be added. Ghost is the last guy who should move too, he's the least replaceable one of them all.
Rich Nixon
No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Couple notes here:
They probably do need a stable veteran in there of some type, and Provorov and Sanheim have more than "the odd bad game." Sanheim not so much lately, he's more of a period-by-period guy, but Provorov has had some really mediocre weeks, alternating with decent ones. I'm not sure the defense is "fine" yet, and I'd like to see Myers, Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, and probably Morin all on the roster, with a better veteran than Gudas in the top 4.
I agree, there's no reason in the world to trade Ghost, but I laugh at the "least replaceable" defense of him. He's also the least necessary. Most teams that are very good don't have a player like him, and plenty of teams win championships without him. He's awesome and he's a Flyer and keep him, but it's like having a whole bunch of cars and saying like "This automatic 1999 Subaru 2.5RS Coupe is the least replaceable!" I mean, right, there's only like 500 of those in the world, and it's a neat little car, but it's not the best, or fastest, or most comfortable, or most reliable, or most practical, or anything...it's just the least replaceable.
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Provorov & Sanheim need to separated. That's the main point. If you add a top4 Vet RHD to this blue line and get rid of MacDonald; it would make the Flyers so much better.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
If you think Ghost is the least necessary then you don't understand the point of hockey, which is to score more than your opponent and win games. He does that better than anyone else and is the most valuable player on the defense.
Most players don't have a player like him? Yeah, no shit, that's why he's the least replaceable... there's so few player in the entire league who can replace him. You literally just agreed with me. It's the same as if someone said McDavid is the least replaceable player on the Oilers and then I come in and say "well every team that's ever won a cup did so without McDavid!"... as if that de-values him... no, it just means he's a super rare player. And obviously I mean least-replaceable ON OUR TEAM. He's not the best defensemen in the league but he's the best ON OUR TEAM. The one it would be hardest for us to live without.
Disagree....this blue line is not ready to compete for a cup. The are not ready to win a playoff series,constituted the way are now. And I do not want Gostisbehere traded but we disagree on him. I do not see him as a 29 minute d-man on a Cup winning team. I think he is good at what he does but he is not the least replaceable.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Hes the best we have. Easily.
Maybe one day someone will be better than him, but we're not at that point yet.
And minutes per game is an invalid way of judging players ability.
This is borderline on arrogance..... its your opinion that he is the best d-man on the Flyers. Provorov is pretty good too. he scored 17 goals last year...tied for the most in the NHL. Its legitimate to say that Provorov is the best on the Flyers. A lot of people around the NHL will say the same thing.
Provorov was better than Gostisbehere last year. And TOI is not a factor in rating a d-man?; we disagree on that one too. The key to a #1 d-man during the playoffs is controlling and calming the game when the puck is on your stick and doing it night after night while skating near 30 minutes a night. See Pronger, Nidermayer, Doughty, Keith, etc. Carlson last year with Caps.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
No he wasn't
Ghost was easily our best defensemen last year...
The gap in offense was much bigger than the gap in defensive play. Even with Hakstol being stupid enough to not let Ghost play at the end of games.
landsbergfan
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
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Ahh my friendly reminder of why I no longer talk to naysayers about Corsi
No he wasn't
Ghost was easily our best defensemen last year...
The gap in offense was much bigger than the gap in defensive play. Even with Hakstol being stupid enough to not let Ghost play at the end of games.
You have issues. Provorov had 17 goals with getting no PP time. You just admitted that Gostisbehere doesn't play at end of games but yet he is irreplaceable. LOL!
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
So your two criteria for defensemen are goals and time on ice?
No wonder you're so wrong here.3 of those 17 goals from Provorov were empty net, so against occupied nets the count was 13 to 14. MEANWHILE Ghost outscored Provorov by 24 points (while playing 4 less games)... a bigger gap than the scoring between McDavid and Voracek. And Provorovs lack of PP points is his own fault, since he's literally one of the worst PP defensemen in the league.
Hakstol being too stupid to use Ghost properly isn't a strike against the player. By your logic, MacDonald and Hagg are top 4 defensemen... still want to try this argument?
The fact that your arguments are this weak and easily shut down shows that your position is weak. Just give up.
Yes, there are absolutely people who do. Google it.
Tripod
I hate this team
why not both?
Provy ????
Sanheim Gudas
Ghost Myers
Morin
Doesn't that make the most sense for next year? I have no issue if they feel we need a GOOD vet. Not a depth guy. But an actual good one. That allows Morin to work his way back into the mix as injuries occur, on b2b, etc... Then the following year, Gudas moves on, Morin moves up, and then run with:
Provy ????
Sanheim Myers
Morin Ghost
Friedman
Provy ????
Sanheim Gudas
Ghost Myers
Morin
Doesn't that make the most sense for next year? I have no issue if they feel we need a GOOD vet. Not a depth guy. But an actual good one. That allows Morin to work his way back into the mix as injuries occur, on b2b, etc... Then the following year, Gudas moves on, Morin moves up, and then run with:
Provy ????
Sanheim Myers
Morin Ghost
Friedman
Larry44
#FireTortsNOW
- Mar 1, 2002
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Even a blind lazy squirrel finds a nut once in a while.Don't forget the nice assist on the GWG by JVR!
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
When I suggested that Sanheim's great metrics were partially due to being sheltered, I got abused.
Now you're using the same argument to suggest his bad metrics really aren't his fault?
You have to maintain perspective, the fact that Sanheim is struggling on the first pair doesn't mean he hasn't improved, it just means he's both uncomfortable at RHD and isn't good enough right now (really a matter of consistency from shift to shift) to be on the first pair. I suspect he'd be fine on the 2nd pair with a good RHD.
He wasn't as good as he looked sheltered with Gudas, he's not as bad as he looks playing top competition.
Tripod
I hate this team
And that's almost every single person thinks Sanheim and Gudas on the 2nd pair, is where he should be playing. Even his biggest supporters think this.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
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Ghost outscores Kimmo when he was a Flyer, but I'd take Kimmo over Ghost any day of the week.
The first responsibility for a defenseman is to play defense and control the tempo of the game.
Scoring is nice, but that's why you pay your top forwards big money.
Do the Flyers need to get rid of Ghost. No.
Would a solid veteran RHD make this defense much better. Yes.
Talent helps, but so does fit.
The first responsibility for a defenseman is to play defense and control the tempo of the game.
Scoring is nice, but that's why you pay your top forwards big money.
Do the Flyers need to get rid of Ghost. No.
Would a solid veteran RHD make this defense much better. Yes.
Talent helps, but so does fit.
Rich Nixon
No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
You have this rather unpleasant tendency where someone offers you a nuanced disagreement and you fly off the handle proclaiming that they don't understand the sport. I'm sure many, many a poster and observer around here believe that also, so I'll go ahead and say that: You get really obnoxious for no real reason. Relax. You aren't the totem of all hockey knowledge, your opinion is not sacrosanct. I enjoy all of your postings here except when you get into this mode.
I told you, it's very true that he's the hardest to replace and the rarest of the bunch. That's what the analogy was about. Gostisbehere is a good player who should remain a Flyer. But that doesn't mean he's more important to their eventual success than the player that Provorov is now, or that at least one of Myers or Sanheim will end up being. He'll be a big part of this defense if it becomes as good as it could be, but he won't be the biggest-and that will benefit him.
Nothing controversial about it. He needs a good coach who deploys him as he should be, and a steady partner who complements him-if I'm bringing in a veteran defender, it's likely to play next to him, not replace him.
Curufinwe
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2013
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Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
He's currently our best defensemen and until that changes he's definitely more important than the rest. If you want to say that one day someone like Sanheim or Myers will be better, than you're being EXTREMELY optimistic and at the very least I'd say we need to wait until that actually happens before deciding he's expendable or "least necessary". Same reason we can't trade Couturier just because we have Patrick and Frost.
Also, by "irreplaceable" I didn't simply mean rarest or most unique. I meant we don't have anyone who is good enough to fill his shoes (quality-wise). We can't replace the value he brings to this team, hence "irreplaceable".
And I say that as someone who loves our other defensemen, as proven by how often I say we don't need to add a top 4 guy. We have the pieces to be a great team, they're already pretty damn good and guys like Sanheim and Myers are far from their peak. But none of them are on Ghosts level right now so it blows my mind when I see people saying they make him expendable or that they can replace him already. The chances that any of them ever have a year as good as what he's already accomplished is very small, so it's ridiculously premature for some to think he's already someone we can afford to trade. On top of that, he's being consistently f***ed around by coaches and so often paired with downright trash players. He's playing in situations that absolutely limit a players ability, so what he's already done isn't even the best I can imagine him doing.
