Post-Game Talk: #58| PHI 3 at EDM 6| Feb 16, 2017 | Jordan Weal (UBI) update to be issued Feb. 21

[Striiker]

ANYBODY THAT watched Columbus knew.. Hextall made huge mistake there. You knew it after 10 days.. That was unacceptable from new GM. I hope he learned.

... so you're literally asking for him to repeat the same kind of trade but now you say it was an unacceptable mistake?

So you want another unacceptable trade? Or not? You're so confused right now that it's making me confused about what you even want.

 

[Striiker]

lolz I can't read now
Actually, I don't speak Gibberish, so you're half right.

Coming from the guy that couldn't find the word "yes" in a five sentence post...

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

... so you're literally asking for him to repeat the same kind of trade but now you say it was an unacceptable mistake?

So you want another unacceptable trade? Or not? You're so confused right now that it's making me confused about what you even want.

Buddy, you know the real problem here is that you can't read. Same for me. We may as well accept it.

 

[Striiker]

Buddy, you know the real problem here is that you can't read. Same for me. We may as well accept it.

We can read and write in English, but the problem is that that's not the common language here. I think we need a translator.

 

[orangecrush8]

Did anything happen after Manning was boarded by Draisatl?

 

[bennysflyers16]

Are we really selling low on Schenn ?
He is the top PP goal scorer in the league, between now and the draft seems like a perfect time to make a hockey trade with Schenn ??

 

[Flyotes]

The team needs players who are more than one thing.

 

[deadhead]

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...r=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists

The PP points are very close to the guys ahead of them. So that argument doesn't work, even if we pretend PP points don't count.

Good try though.

Giroux was 51st in ES points during that period.
Since then, he's been in PEB territory.

 

[Striiker]

Giroux was 51st in ES points during that period.
Since then, he's been in PEB territory.

OK? So that means he's done?

So shortsighted.. it's insane.

 

[deadhead]

Wait, so Giroux, who was 10th in points amongst centers last year, and was 5th in points among centers this year until exactly 2 months ago (32 games) is no longer a 1C and never will be again? Because of a terrible two months? Where the entire team has been absolutely awful?

Even if you include this disaster of the past 2 months, he's 12th in C scoring over the past two years.

Not at ES, he isn't.
Last year he was 74th in scoring 5x5.
Two years ago he was 104th in scoring 5x5.
Three years ago 22nd
Four years ago 47th
Five years ago 16th

That's a pretty obvious decline.
A 1C has to be a dominant player at ES, almost by definition.

 

[deadhead]

We're not in cap hell anymore, we don't HAVE to move anyone if the value isn't there, but Hextall should be listening to offers.

 

[Striiker]

And, as we all know, scoring at 5v5 is an individual endeavor, not a team one. His scoring has nothing to do with teammates and quality of the team, it's not like he's a playmaker or something.

A good player does it all himself, 100%. He takes the puck from the opponent himself, he leaves the defensive zone by himself, he skates up the ice by himself, he enters the offensive zone by himself, he dances around the defense by himself, and then he shoots the puck straight in.

Teammates aren't responsible for any of these steps and having poor teammates can't effect it at all. Like, for example, having defensemen who can't stop opponents, having defensemen who can't recover the puck, having teammates who can't make smart/quick breakout passes, having linemates who can't enter the offensive zone with speed/possession, or having teammates who can't finish when passed to.



Thank god for Deadhead, without him I might think this is a team sport or something.

 

[Ruck Over]

Previous posts in thread- did not read.

This team is hot garbage right now. I love the Flyers, but they are literally putting me to sleep during the telecast. Sure, starting at 9 pm had a hand in that as well, but I fell asleep at 4-1, and woke up to see the score become 6-3. Ugh.

Really starting to doubt Hakstol, and the Gordon + Weise moves, and lack of other roster changing moves are beginning to let doubts creep about Hextall as well.

This team looks soooo unlucky. But at some point, whatever the coaches are doing to change that luck has to be acknowledged as not working. Stats, splats. I fully recognize the talent on this team is lacking compared to the elite teams. I blame the coaching for creating a trap-era Devils style of uninspired play that both limits whatever talent may be on this team, and just sucks to watch.

I don't understand how they can drivew play, be unlucky, and so boring. That Canadians game felt like a loss it was so dull. Then they play well against St. Louis everywhere but the scoreboard. And last night against Edmonton, they allowed themselves to get pushed around instead of fighting fire with fire. Props to Manning on actually fighting, but at 4-1, that game was already over. Instead of just giving them a pound of flesh, either make them earn it, or take another off of them. Calgary was chippy, and Edmonton used that same play book to push the Flyers around- lame.

This team needs to do something, PBS is going to start taking the Flyers market share away for quality tv programming.

 

[Striiker]

Also, to add to my last post, doing things at a high level doesn't guarantee production/results.

If anyone here seriously says that visually, over the past ~5 years, that Giroux doesn't look like a 1C on the ice and have an impact on the game like other comparable 1Cs (not guys like Crosby but Tavares, Toews, Stamkos, ect), you're either a liar or just have no clue what you're watching.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I feel as if this is a suitable time to point out the Flyers have some nice prospects on some pretty fun junior/Euro/college/minor teams and access has never been easier. Plus you have the added bonus of draft watching.

 

[Rebels57]

Hakstol will be fired either over the summer or 2-3 months into next season, and all will be right with the world. Hextall is probably doing his research now. He'd be a fool not to.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sorry I do not watch football, basketball or baseball. I can't name a single player on Redskins team.

Well. The Redskins operate in a fashion consistent with what you want with the Flyers, or they did until they hired a real GM. They quit on guys the moment they struggled, cut guys loose or traded them when their value was low, and repeatedly watched them rebound or blossom elsewhere. They were a laughingstock organization.

It wasn't a good idea in the NFL. It isn't a good idea in any sport.

 

[deadhead]

Giroux plays with the best wingers on the Flyers, and the falloff has been the last three years, before that he was an elite center. But players age, some faster than others, some play at a fairly high level into their mid-30s, others start fading before they turn 30. He's not big or fast, so he has a smaller margin as he ages. However, lots of numbers show hockey players peak around age 26.

I don't know how you can watch Giroux the last couple years and not see a decline, he's just not as quick as he was in his prime. It showed up in ES first, now we're seeing on the PP as teams pressure him more often.

This team does have a lack of toughness, the only guys who want to hit are Gudas, Manning and MDZ on defense, and Simmonds, Schenn, Weise, Cousins and Konency on offense. If there is a real flaw with VdV and PEB, it's not that they're mediocre, we have lots of mediocre bottom six forwards the last few years - it's that they lack an edge.

 

[Striiker]

Giroux plays with the best wingers on the Flyers, and the falloff has been the last three years, before that he was an elite center. But players age, some faster than others, some play at a fairly high level into their mid-30s, others start fading before they turn 30. He's not big or fast, so he has a smaller margin as he ages. However, lots of numbers show hockey players peak around age 26.

I don't know how you can watch Giroux the last couple years and not see a decline, he's just not as quick as he was in his prime. It showed up in ES first, now we're seeing on the PP as teams pressure him more often.

This team does have a lack of toughness, the only guys who want to hit are Gudas, Manning and MDZ on defense, and Simmonds, Schenn, Weise, Cousins and Konency on offense. If there is a real flaw with VdV and PEB, it's not that they're mediocre, we have lots of mediocre bottom six forwards the last few years - it's that they lack an edge.

Probably the same way you can watch players and think Simmonds and Gudas are slow, Vandevelde is a safe player, and about a million other blatantly incorrect observations you've made.

Clearly your eye test is deeply deeply deeply flawed so it's not surprising that you're exaggerating things yet again.

Giroux is the same player he's always been, with the exception of the times he's been injured and not playing like himself. A slump can just be a slump, you don't need to worry about a flood as soon as it starts to rain. Being a playmaker means you rely a certain amount on others for points, he can only do so much to put guys in a position to score, if they don't finish then no point. Voracek is a good player, but not much of a goalscorer... Raffl is Raffl, Schenn is Schenn. Not exactly a group of consistent 5v5 goalscorers that he's setting up here. And lets not forget the role that having competent defensemen play in 5v5 scoring...

Has he played great all year? Of course not. Has he had bad games? Absolutely. Should that be exaggerated and panicked about? Nope, but here we are.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

some players can never win in this town. it has been that way forever. it isn't just hockey either. Giroux is in the midst of the worst slump of his career. He isn't slowing down. I can pretty much guarantee he cares and probably puts more pressure on himself than any player on this team. trading him would be a mistake.
How long have we asked for a sniper on Giroux's wing? a long ass time.
The best goal scorer on this team gets most of his goals from 10-12 feet in. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but this team has been lacking a pure sniper for awhile now. We have had a few in recent memory but they were traded.

 

[Striiker]

some players can never win in this town. it has been that way forever. it isn't just hockey either. Giroux is in the midst of the worst slump of his career. He isn't slowing down. I can pretty much guarantee he cares and probably puts more pressure on himself than any player on this team. trading him would be a mistake.
How long have we asked for a sniper on Giroux's wing? a long ass time.
The best goal scorer on this team gets most of his goals from 10-12 feet in. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but this team has been lacking a pure sniper for awhile now. We have had a few in recent memory but they were traded.

Yep, it's no accident that Giroux had his best year with Hartnell on his wing. Voracek is a better overall player, but definitely not a better goalscorer.

If you look at Giroux highlights you see he was never a burner like a Konecny type, he's always been about brains, vision, and passing. That hasn't changed. Also, while not a speed demon, skating definitely isn't an issue... even now he's not slow. Just last night he had a shift where he came flying through the neutral zone with tons of speed, ended up in the offensive zone, realized nobody was around to take a pass or do anything meaningful, so he had to just fling it on net from the outside.

He's in a slump, like most of the team, but that's all it is. People trying to make it about his overall ability or about effort are simply incorrect.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Mike Schmidt, the best 3rd baseman ever and a top 20 position player, got the "If he's so good" treatment. It's sadly how it works.

 

[deadhead]

Gee, we have a small center with brains, vision and passing, and he's fiesty as well. A lot cheaper than Giroux to boot.
And people consider Cousins to be a marginal 3rd line center.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Yep, it's no accident that Giroux had his best year with Hartnell on his wing. Voracek is a better overall player, but definitely not a better goalscorer.

If you look at Giroux highlights you see he was never a burner like a Konecny type, he's always been about brains, vision, and passing. That hasn't changed. Also, while not a speed demon, skating definitely isn't an issue... even now he's not slow. Just last night he had a shift where he came flying through the neutral zone with tons of speed, ended up in the offensive zone, realized nobody was around to take a pass or do anything meaningful, so he had to just fling it on net from the outside.

He's in a slump, like most of the team, but that's all it is. People trying to make it about his overall ability or about effort are simply incorrect.

no it wasn't an accident at all. I get why they traded away Hartnell. But trading him could probably be viewed as a miss by Hextall. Hoping to catch lightning in a bottle with Umberger and it obviously didn't work out.
hopefully now with some cap relief on the way this summer and with some of the kids on the way they can get Giroux some help. But it goes beyond just finding Giroux a sniper. This team needs scoring depth. This team right now is pretty easy to get unfavorable matchups against. creating that depth will create problems for the other team and take some pressure off Giroux as well

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Mike Schmidt, the best 3rd baseman ever and a top 20 position player, got the "If he's so good" treatment. It's sadly how it works.

it was pretty bad how he was treated. the guy gave everything to the Phillies organization and many in the fanbase and media pissed all over him.