Post-Game Talk: #57 | Devils 5 at FLYERS 4 (1-0 shootout) | Tue., Feb. 13 2018

[YamCork]

I come to HFFlyers just to read Captain Dave's posts.

Is there really any other reason?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Even Khudobin’s having a really good season as a backup. So it’s not all just goaltending/Rask. The two of them have been underwhelming to degrees in recent seasons coming into this year.

Boston has a better overall team & a better coach than the Flyers too.

Khudonbin is going to make some team think he can be an every day starter. some team is going to do it.
Boston is better than this team in every area. they are better than most teams in the East. its them and Tampa and everyone else jockeying for the other 6 spots.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I come to HFFlyers just to read Captain Dave's posts.

I'm sorry that you have to endure that nonsense lol

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Khudonbin is going to make some team think he can be an every day starter. some team is going to do it.
Boston is better than this team in every area. they are better than most teams in the East. its them and Tampa and everyone else jockeying for the other 6 spots.

I'd add Toronto there too, just below those teams. I don't really trust Anderson to stay at this level, but that's just me. The defense is far from perfect, but they could play spoilers for a few rounds and get lucky, depending how things go. I wouldn't want to play them in a 7-game series, especially if it was an older team. They could also get swept. I see them as a real wild card.

 

[ybnvs]

I'm sorry that you have to endure that nonsense lol

Dude, you're a riot and I absolutely love it and hope you continue on with your sick, sadistic, satirical posts. In the darkest moments this franchise has to endure, you are the light at the end of the tunnel for us fans on this forum. You don't even need to have sound rationale, just speak your mind, and we love you.

Not only are your posts well writ, but your dark sense of humor resonates beautifully with my inner dark thoughts. I tend to internalize and suppress the Devil inside of me, but you unleash it like the Devil and God are raging inside of you. It's romantically dark. You truly are a wordsmith and you bring smiles and laughter to a great many people on this board -- and being fans of any Philly team, this is MUCH needed since we can never have nice things (EXCEPT A 2018 SUPER-f***ING-BOWL RING) and are always forced to endure such bad luck all of the time.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Dude, you're a riot and I absolutely love it and hope you continue on with your sick, sadistic, satirical posts. In the darkest moments this franchise has to endure, you are the light at the end of the tunnel for us fans on this forum. You don't even need to have sound rationale, just speak your mind, and we love you.

Not only are your posts well writ, but your dark sense of humor resonates beautifully with my inner dark thoughts. I tend to internalize and suppress the Devil inside of me, but you unleash it like the Devil and God are raging inside of you. It's romantically dark. You truly are a wordsmith and you bring smiles and laughter to a great many people on this board -- and being fans of any Philly team, this is MUCH needed since we can never have nice things (EXCEPT A 2018 SUPER-****ING-BOWL RING) and are always forced to endure such bad luck all of the time.

I'd like to disagree with you, but it's difficult when you speak such truth.

 

[JXC]

Off topic yes, but could it be resisted? I’d argue No.

 

[Curufinwe]

Why was voracek shooting instead of giroux?

I don't have a problem with Voracek getting regular caps for the shootout but theyre should be no reason why Giroux isn't almost always in that first group.

There is a very good reason. He hasn't been good at shootouts since the last Winter Olympics.

NHL.com - Stats

Oh dear god, there's another one. What is it with things not mattering? Every tiny edge you can get matters. It's insanely difficult to win NHL games.

Indeed, which is why Giroux losing his shootout mojo four years ago has been a huge problem.

 

[Curufinwe]

The worst was the Devils had already rotated back to the Hall/Hischier combo when Flip got on the ice. There weren't enough facepalms to give at that strategy. The OT should be nothing more than a Giroux/Voracek/Ghost and Couturier/Konecny/Provorov at this point. Maybe sprinkle in some Laughton, Patrick, and Raffl to give the forwards a breather if they get stuck out there.

It's simply not possible to only use two sets of players in an extended OT. Skating at 3 on 3 is too draining for that.

I notice you didn't mention the last forward to score a goal in OT for the team on your list of extras.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I'd add Toronto there too, just below those teams. I don't really trust Anderson to stay at this level, but that's just me. The defense is far from perfect, but they could play spoilers for a few rounds and get lucky, depending how things go. I wouldn't want to play them in a 7-game series, especially if it was an older team. They could also get swept. I see them as a real wild card.

Toronto is in a weird spot. they dont match up with Boston at all. I am sure Toronto is fine with playing Tampa in round 1 this year if this regular season is any indication.

 

[flyershockey]

It's simply not possible to only use two sets of players in an extended OT. Skating at 3 on 3 is too draining for that.

I notice you didn't mention the last forward to score a goal in OT for the team on your list of extras.

No need to get all pissy because I didn't include Jordan Weal on a list of preferred list of forwards to use in OT. He had a nice goal against Carolina, sure.

A lot of teams rely heavily on two forward combos if they can keep their shift lengths within reason. The general concept is that using guys like Filppula and MacDonald is essentially punting the shift. The Flyers are god awful in the shootout. Go try to win the game in the 3 on 3 session.

 

[deadhead]

. You don't even need to have sound rationale, just speak your mind, and we love you.

"Sound rationale" and the Cap'n are two ships passing in the night.
It is his irrational nature that makes him so entertaining.
Salmon and snake venom are a powerful force.

 

[gto64dr]

Like I said. I was at the game last night and we lost because of crappy D not Nuevy. I lost count of many times Nuevy was crashed by the Devils or our own guys. And how many failed clearingss we have. We need to scrap Manning or McDonald and get some size and attitude in front of our goalies. We also need to assign some players to actually run the other teams goalies. Ever wonder why other teams goalies always look like Vezina winners, little to no traffic in front of them.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Like I said. I was at the game last night and we lost because of crappy D not Nuevy. I lost count of many times Nuevy was crashed by the Devils or our own guys. And how many failed clearingss we have. We need to scrap Manning or McDonald and get some size and attitude in front of our goalies. We also need to assign some players to actually run the other teams goalies. Ever wonder why other teams goalies always look like Vezina winners, little to no traffic in front of them.

Would have to think we def have one of the smallest softest D cores in the league. In our goalies kitchen is free space most nights,

 

[Curufinwe]

A lot of teams rely heavily on two forward combos if they can keep their shift lengths within reason.

If you have stats from other teams showing that they rely more heavily on their top 6 players than the Flyers do in OT, I would like to see them. These numbers are up to date as of last night's game, and my quick maths say the top 6 have got 74% of the available ice time in overtime this season.

9 Provorov - 23:02
14 Couturier - 22:01
93 Voracek - 19:29
28 Giroux - 19:21
53 Ghost - 18:18
11 Konecny - 13:29

51 Filppula - 10:39
17 Simmonds - 9:43
47 MacDonald - 5:47
19 Patrick - 3:25
40 Weal - 3:24
23 Manning - 2:36
3 Gudas - 2:24
6 Sanheim - 1:45
8 Hagg - 0:46
21 Laughton - 0:18

 

[Ghosts Beer]

There are going to be a few turnovers and high danger chances every game. It's inevitable. Neuvirth didn't really bail them out with any huge saves, and gave up one absolutely atrocious backbreaking goal. I'll grant that he made some nice stops in OT.

The Hall 90-degree angle goal: completely inexcusable.
The Moore goal? Shot from the blueline. Not tipped. Not a rocket. Maybe he was screened because Provorov didn't exactly clear the crease, but How about a stop?
Hischier's goal -- okay, two on one after a brutal turnover by Provorov. A huge stop would've been nice, but rough situation.
The Hall EN goal -- lousy defense. Provorov didn't do a great initial job on Hall, who ends up getting it to Hischier and then no one (Simmonds) ties him up for the rebound. Can't really blame Neuvirth.

All in all, though, they should not have scored 4 goals in regulations. Sometimes you need a little more from your goalie.

 

[Hurricane28]

Neuvirth made a couple big stops in the 3rd to keep them ahead, but again net front defense cost them in the final two minutes

 

[deadhead]

Like I said. I was at the game last night and we lost because of crappy D not Nuevy. I lost count of many times Nuevy was crashed by the Devils or our own guys. And how many failed clearingss we have. We need to scrap Manning or McDonald and get some size and attitude in front of our goalies. We also need to assign some players to actually run the other teams goalies. Ever wonder why other teams goalies always look like Vezina winners, little to no traffic in front of them.

Wait, wait, I thought size didn't matter?

One reason Weise and Lehtera dress over Leier is they did crowd the net at times on offense, something only Simmonds does on a regular basis, and Raffl at times, though he's moveable.
Hopefully, when Patrick grows up, Lindblom and eventually Vorobyev and Allison and Ratcliffe/Strome will give us some bodies that will crash opposing nets.

On defense, I think one reason they like Hagg is he has potential as a crease clearer, needs to improve his awareness and how to use leverage, but he is a rookie.
Provorov, Gudas are physical, but they're also average size, it's harder to generate leverage and move people when you're stationary, so you need to be bigger. Same issue with Manning.
Ghost, MacDonald are invisible in front of the crease.

Sanheim was useless as well, he's tall but lacks strength. Put 10 lbs on that frame and he probably can move people and win board battles.
Morin and Myers will be difference makers in this regard, those two have man sized bodies.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Wait, wait, I thought size didn't matter?

One reason Weise and Lehtera dress over Leier is they did crowd the net at times on offense, something only Simmonds does on a regular basis, and Raffl at times, though he's moveable.
Hopefully, when Patrick grows up, Lindblom and eventually Vorobyev and Allison and Ratcliffe/Strome will give us some bodies that will crash opposing nets.

On defense, I think one reason they like Hagg is he has potential as a crease clearer, needs to improve his awareness and how to use leverage, but he is a rookie.
Provorov, Gudas are physical, but they're also average size, it's harder to generate leverage and move people when you're stationary, so you need to be bigger. Same issue with Manning.
Ghost, MacDonald are invisible in front of the crease.

Sanheim was useless as well, he's tall but lacks strength. Put 10 lbs on that frame and he probably can move people and win board battles.
Morin and Myers will be difference makers in this regard, those two have man sized bodies.

Interesting -- I actually think one of Hagg's strengths is his knack for leverage. It's why he can throw solid hits without ever taking penalties. He does it quietly, but somehow hits pretty hard. Doesn't mean he doesn't get beaten in the crease occasionally, but so does Provorov.

Speaking of Hagg, he also played only 15 minutes last night and 0 minutes shorthanded, so maybe they are going to start treating him more like the third pairing defenseman he really is.

 

[Lotusflower]

There is a very good reason. He hasn't been good at shootouts since the last Winter Olympics.

NHL.com - Stats



Indeed, which is why Giroux losing his shootout mojo four years ago has been a huge problem.

Not to be flippant but this is the Flyers were talking about here, right? The worst shootout team ever historically if I'm not mistaken?

You don't have to tell me Giroux hasn't been good I can see it with my own 2 eyes. Problem is, who on the roster deserves to be ahead of G shooting? Weal? Patrick who's got one goal to his credit?

Give me a break. G's got more moves than anyone else on the roster and has proven he can be a difference maker there in the past. Which no one else on our roster can match.

 

[Tripod]

Not to be flippant but this is the Flyers were talking about here, right? The worst shootout team ever historically if I'm not mistaken?

You don't have to tell me Giroux hasn't been good I can see it with my own 2 eyes. Problem is, who on the roster deserves to be ahead of G shooting? Weal? Patrick who's got one goal to his credit?

Give me a break. G's got more moves than anyone else on the roster and has proven he can be a difference maker there in the past. Which no one else on our roster can match.

But if he isn't scoring, you have to try other options. Weal was 2 for 2 I believe, now has missed his last 2 times. It makes sense why they went back to him to see if he would score given he was 2-1.

Jake has converted more than G. He only does 1 of 3 things, but still converts more.

I too would have went back to Patrick, see if he goes 2-0. Why not? He can shoot and has a longer reach for dekes.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Their shootout stats over the last 3 seasons are pretty stunning.
G at only 23%. Simmonds at 22%. Couturier 0 for 4. Konecny 0 for 6. Ghost 1 for 5. Schenn was 0 for 5 the last two seasons; Cousins was 2 for 10.

Weal 4 for 8 is at least something. Voracek at 36.4 should always be top 3, also, apparently, with this group. I stand corrected wanting G to go before him. But I'm all for giving Patrick a few more chances, that's for sure.

Oh, and the goalies? Neuvirth has saved 75% (24/32); Mason was 70% (42/60); Elliott is a putrid 44% (4/9) as a Flyer.

 

[Appleyard]

Giroux has not looked the same in the SO since he had those two in quick succession where he deked the goalie into the rafters and by fluke they did not go... sometime in ~2014-15.

I believe one was vs the Isles? Where it looked 100% like going in and like stayed on the line/goalie got super lucky?

He does not go half as creative any more really. Every now and again he pulls a great move out and generally scores, but he tries to shoot quite a lot now.


At one point his SO% was up there amongst the best ~10-15 guys ever at it. Clocking 40%.
(I just checked... going into 14-15 he was 17/40... 42.5%!)

 

[Beef Invictus]

@deadhead if the Flyers are to exhausted to push in the third, rather than being instructed to be conservative, why aren't you slaughtering Hakstol for failing to keep the team conditioned, rather than using it as a feeble excuse for him?


He's to blame either way.

 

[Hurricane28]

Giroux has not looked the same in the SO since he had those two in quick succession where he deked the goalie into the rafters and by fluke they did not go... sometime in ~2014-15.

I believe one was vs the Isles? Where it looked 100% like going in and like stayed on the line/goalie got super lucky?

He does not go half as creative any more really. Every now and again he pulls a great move out and generally scores, but he tries to shoot quite a lot now.


At one point his SO% was up there amongst the best ~10-15 guys ever at it. Clocking 40%.
(I just checked... going into 14-15 he was 17/40... 42.5%!)

I really think the Flyers would benefit from shooting last and not first. Plus mixing up the lineup to try to generate something.