Proposal: 4th pick plus Mantha ➕? For Werenski?

[ArmChairGM89]

.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Maybe from a pure production standpoint on Perry? But Perry was never as good of a skater as Mantha, and Mantha has 2 inches and 30 pounds on Perry. Mantha has a lot more dazzle to his game, someone like Rick Nash comes to mind, and when at his best he can be among the very best.

Even though their career stats are very similar, 10 times out of 10 I'd take Corey Perry over Rick Nash. Better peak years, better in the clutch, better playoff performer.

Nash was a guy who reminded me of a poor man's Jarome Iginla. Bullish power winger, good in close and a great shot. Nash's problem was that he never made the players around him better and never made good use of his linemates.

Corey Perry could drive the play into the offensive zone or he could be in the passenger seat and let Getzlaf be the driver while he was the recipient of some great passing. He (Perry) had great synergy with playmaking forwards that I never really saw out of Nash over the course of his career in Columbus (I lost track of him during his NYR days). Mantha works with Larkin much like Perry did with Getzlaf. They feed off each other.

Mantha is a better skater than Perry but his overall game isn't that different.

 

[MBH]

Wait, are you seriously calling Mantha elite? I guess it is always 5 o'clock somewhere.

Mantha's about to be 26.
His career highs.
25 goals
48 points.

Last year, he really did step forward. But it's also possible, since he only played 43 games, that he didn't have a chance to have his annual 20-game slumps.

I fully expect Mantha to have a true breakout year, eventually, if we have hockey and he can stay healthy.

But he's at his athletic prime. It's not going to be long before the wear and tear gets to him.
I'm really not all that impressed by him buffing up and playing a 234 pounds, to be honest.

 

[MBH]

If you guys so desperate to get great defenseman let just get Drysdale at 4

Sanderson is there at 4.
Your 25-minute a night LD to go with 25-minute a night RD Seider.
Put them on different pairings and you've got a lockdown D on the ice 50 minutes a night.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Nash was a guy who reminded me of a poor man's Jarome Iginla. Bullish power winger, good in close and a great shot. Nash's problem was that he never made the players around him better and never made good use of his linemates.

Nash also never had a single player worth a damn playing along side him in his prime years in CBJ. Perry was very fortunate to have a legit 1C for the duration of his career. Also played with Selanne, plus Bobby Ryan before all his struggles. I think prime Rick Nash is a better player than prime Corey Perry, but circumstances determined the ultimate peak of their statistics.

He (Perry) had great synergy with playmaking forwards that I never really saw out of Nash over the course of his career in Columbus

This statement is my exact point. Antoine Vermette, RJ Umburger, Manny Malhotra, the corpse of Sergei Fedorov. These are the centers that Columbus tried to put around Rick Nash.

 

[Gniwder]

Mantha's about to be 26.
His career highs.
25 goals
48 points.

Last year, he really did step forward. But it's also possible, since he only played 43 games, that he didn't have a chance to have his annual 20-game slumps.

I fully expect Mantha to have a true breakout year, eventually, if we have hockey and he can stay healthy.

But he's at his athletic prime. It's not going to be long before the wear and tear gets to him.
I'm really not all that impressed by him buffing up and playing a 234 pounds, to be honest.

Mantha has the toolset to be elite, but yeah he goes into slumps or gets injured. If he could put it all together for a season and avoid fights, he could definitely have a breakout season.

He may decline after 30, but with his size and shot, he'll be useful for much longer, especially on the PP. Look at Ovy, still a scoring monster despite slowing down a lot. Same with Hull when he was here.

But hey, the streakiness and injuries really brought down his market value so hopefully he'll sign a reasonable contract.

 

[odin1981]

I think Mantha and Werenski is kind of low hanging fruit in terms of a hockey trade that could make sense, but I can't help but feel that #4 is a massive overpayment on top of Mantha. I could see Werenski for Mantha+something, but certainly not Mantha+Drysdale/Sanderson. Just kind of tossing in those two D prospects as placeholders that could make sense in that slot. A controlled, 26 year old budding winger to plop next to Dubois for the better part of the next decade, plus drafting someone you hope can effectively replace Werenski in 2-3 years...I would do that if I were Columbus without much second thought.

#1 D's go for more than a first round pick and a top 6 winger.

 

[Go Wings]

Columbus would not move Werenski but if they would I would absolutely move the 4th pick for him in a heartbeat. Werenski is a very good defensemen and had a great year. He had 20 goals in 63 games, a left shot, big and only 23.

Any here saying they wouldn't move the 4th overall pick needs to get a clue and stop living in the potential of the draft. Werenski has already established himself as a top pairing guy that create offense and run a powerplay. Drysdale "might" become that in years. After the top 3 this draft drops a bit. To get Werenski right away to play with Hronek and maybe eventually Seider would be a huge win. Imagine if they signed Krug too.

Werenski/ Hronek
Krug/ Seider
Lindstrom/ Dekeysker

Now tell me that isn't a MASSIVE improvement on the blueline.

 

[Oddbob]

MASSIVE overpayment that really helps us very little. Werenski fills one hole, while Mantha creates another one, and then we lose out on a Top 4 pick as well.

 

[Oddbob]

Mantha is elite at his position.

Pace smace, Mantha isn't even a Top 10 winger in the NHL let alone elite. Unless he finishes an actual season with more than 70 games and more than 30-35 goals he is far from elite.

 

[Oddbob]

I’d take Mantha over Tarasenko and he’s on par with laine rantanen and stone (might give stone an edge for his defense) and wheeler will be 35 next year.

honestly just being in the top 10 makes you elite and he’s firmly there. That means he’s the best RW all but 9 teams. Out of what will be 32 teams.

Are you for real? Tarasenko fewest pts the last 5 years is 68, while Mantha's highest is 48, and Rantanen and Stone are much better. I wish Mantha was better but he isn't and his going to improve runway is quickly running out.

 

[MBH]

Mantha has the toolset to be elite, but yeah he goes into slumps or gets injured. If he could put it all together for a season and avoid fights, he could definitely have a breakout season.

He may decline after 30, but with his size and shot, he'll be useful for much longer, especially on the PP. Look at Ovy, still a scoring monster despite slowing down a lot. Same with Hull when he was here.

But hey, the streakiness and injuries really brought down his market value so hopefully he'll sign a reasonable contract.

Mantha is not Ovie or Hull.
Yzerman wouldn't be wrong to play some hardball on the Mantha contract. And if he doesn't sign - move him out for highest possible value.

 

[Gniwder]

Mantha is not Ovie or Hull.
Yzerman wouldn't be wrong to play some hardball on the Mantha contract. And if he doesn't sign - move him out for highest possible value.

Of course not, he actually skates better than Ovie or Hull but his slapper isn't as big. But fact of the matter is, he's got a good shot, and will be useful past his prime.

If I have a concern about age, it's Larkin. His entire game is based on speed and that will diminish with age.

 

[MBH]

Of course not, he actually skates better than Ovie or Hull but his slapper isn't as big. But fact of the matter is, he's got a good shot, and will be useful past his prime.

If I have a concern about age, it's Larkin. His entire game is based on speed and that will diminish with age.

Larkin will be one to watch, because he plays a hard-charging game, even if he doesn't throw hits.
But Larkin is younger than Mantha and has topped Mantha's career high for 3 straight seasons now.

 

[Killerjas]

If you guys so desperate to get great defenseman let just get Drysdale at 4

You don't pick for position, you pick BPA

 

[TheMule93]

You don't pick for position, you pick BPA

He's got an argument got bpa at 4

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I don't really think this trade makes sense for either team... but how does a really, really good 23 year old two way defenseman "not line up with our window"? There is no chance for us to be good again in the next 15 years?

Generally speaking players peak in their 23-25 aged seasons and plateau for a little bit before they begin their decline in their age 28 to 29 season. We'd be trading for someone that may have already peaked and is potentially going to begin to plateau as they transition into their most expensive seasons. While Werenski is signed for the next 2 seasons at 5M per year the Wings are not a team that can take advantage of those cap savings as they're neither close to the cap or close to competing. As well, given who his agent is I'd expect he'll be looking at 8-9M+ come his next contract. I probably should've worded the age part a little differently. Werenski would almost certainly help our team given the black hole that is our defense. The problem is that given his age we'll not only be paying a premium in terms of trade assets, but also for his salary.

If we want to try and get a top pairing D we should draft Drysdale and wait and see what happens with our prospects. A trade like Mantha+4th overall is something that would set the rebuild even further back. Truthfully, I think Mantha for Werenski is about even all things considered and is something that could make sense for both sides.

The only thing Mantha is 'elite' is in how he finds a way to get injured every season.

Mantha is in the discussion for being the best player on the team. I don't think anyone has any qualms about Larkin being called elite so I don't think we should be looking to move Mantha either. He has been injured frequently, but over the past 2 seasons he's been one of the better defensive forwards on the team while also scoring and driving possession. In a way the injuries could be a blessing as we may be able to get him signed for less than 7 or 8M on a longer term deal.

 

[pz29]

Absolutely not!

 

[TCNorthstars]

Generally speaking players peak in their 23-25 aged seasons and plateau for a little bit before they begin their decline in their age 28 to 29 season. We'd be trading for someone that may have already peaked and is potentially going to begin to plateau as they transition into their most expensive seasons. While Werenski is signed for the next 2 seasons at 5M per year the Wings are not a team that can take advantage of those cap savings as they're neither close to the cap or close to competing. As well, given who his agent is I'd expect he'll be looking at 8-9M+ come his next contract. I probably should've worded the age part a little differently. Werenski would almost certainly help our team given the black hole that is our defense. The problem is that given his age we'll not only be paying a premium in terms of trade assets, but also for his salary.

If we want to try and get a top pairing D we should draft Drysdale and wait and see what happens with our prospects. A trade like Mantha+4th overall is something that would set the rebuild even further back. Truthfully, I think Mantha for Werenski is about even all things considered and is something that could make sense for both sides.



Mantha is in the discussion for being the best player on the team. I don't think anyone has any qualms about Larkin being called elite so I don't think we should be looking to move Mantha either. He has been injured frequently, but over the past 2 seasons he's been one of the better defensive forwards on the team while also scoring and driving possession. In a way the injuries could be a blessing as we may be able to get him signed for less than 7 or 8M on a longer term deal.

I certainly have qualms about calling Larkin elite. He is not. He has elite speed, but that is where his eliteness ends.

 

[SirloinUB]

Werenski is one of my favourite D in the league but at this point of the rebuild I believe we should focus on asset accumulation, especially when those assets are very good pieces.

Yes we need elite D to contend, but for now I’d prefer to stockpile as many high end pieces as possible. For that reason trading Mantha + a top 4 pick is counter productive to our rebuild.

If Mantha + a 2nd could get it done, I’m all over this trade but Columbus wouldn’t and shouldn’t do that anyway.

 

[Gniwder]

Larkin will be one to watch, because he plays a hard-charging game, even if he doesn't throw hits.
But Larkin is younger than Mantha and has topped Mantha's career high for 3 straight seasons now.

Well at least we agree on something, lol.

The only reason why Larkin has topped Mantha is because he gets into stupid fights, he's got just as many goals in less games. Larkin is all speed, Mantha is a more complete player but without the compete level. If the kid learns how to get revenge by scoring instead of punching, he'd actually be elite.

I have issues with calling Larkin elite, other than speed, because when the game slows down he's very mediocre. Look at the PP.

Back to the topic, I'd rather have Mantha and Drysdale over Werenski. This team would be absolutely boring to watch without one scorer, elite or not.

 

[GMR]

The only thing Mantha is 'elite' is in how he finds a way to get injured every season.

He either needs to stop fighting or learn how not to punch like a girl.

He's elite compared to his teammates obviously, but not an elite player overall. Not one of the best at his position. More consistency is needed before being labeled "elite". He has skill and size but misses too many games. To be elite means playing at a superstar level for several seasons.

Basically what others said.

That said, I wouldn't trade him and a pick for Werenski.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

What does Mantha add to the Blue Jackets that we dont already have?

I doubt Kek trades ZW one year into his bridge contract for that package

 

[Anisimovs AK]

If everyone here saying that he doesn't intend on being in Columbus long term is true, then no.

The problem is that is essentially a hyperbole of the situation. Werenski is friends with Larkin, and thats about as far as it goes in reality.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

Nash also never had a single player worth a damn playing along side him in his prime years in CBJ. Perry was very fortunate to have a legit 1C for the duration of his career. Also played with Selanne, plus Bobby Ryan before all his struggles. I think prime Rick Nash is a better player than prime Corey Perry, but circumstances determined the ultimate peak of their statistics.



This statement is my exact point. Antoine Vermette, RJ Umburger, Manny Malhotra, the corpse of Sergei Fedorov. These are the centers that Columbus tried to put around Rick Nash.

But when he played with Brad Richards and St Louis in New York his statistics and impact on the game stayed exactly the same