Post-Game Talk: #49 | Kings at Flyers | January 24, 2023

[VladDrag]

...then you're probably shit at development.

Just checking in Mikhail Vorobyev, and just as he was in the beginning of the year, he’s producing well in the KHL. He’s scoring at a converted rate of 42 NHL points, based on Dobber Prospect’s NHLe Calculator.

And I said this earlier in the year as well, maybe the Flyers should have given this guy some leeway and practiced patience with him. You could have another middle 6 center right now (and another trade piece). But we know how players will turn out after 35 games split over two seasons.

 

[Tripod]

Domi 1 year at 3m over Desi and trading for ADA 10 out of 10.

And I am not pretending Domi is a long term solution. He is flawed big time! But its better than full out panic and give the goon a 4 year deal.

Bjustad signed for 900,000. He has 11 goals, 10 assists in AZ

 

[Striiker]

Here ya go.

Jim Jackson is dogshit.

 

[wasup]

Wings can take faceoffs, G did it all the time.

Cates is a much better defensive center than Hayes.

Hayes is a much better LW than center at this point in his career, like G, it's a case of "less is more," without the burden of playing center, Hayes can skate a lot less and his defensive responsibilities are more limited. He's not only scoring more, he's no longer a defensive liability.

I've got one thing to say about your analysis , BULLSHIT . I had wrote out a whole bunch of stuff picking apart your blurb but then realized there is no point . I'm watching LV now so you can have at it .

 

[Curufinwe]

Neither Deslauriers or MacEwen kept them from signing a center, their net cost is about $500K to $1M (because someone costing $750K to $1M would be on the active roster).

They are useless 4th line wingers who take up two contract slots and two roster spots.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There's a GDT coming in a bit. Been too busy yesterday/this AM

 

[deadhead]

Just checking in Mikhail Vorobyev, and just as he was in the beginning of the year, he’s producing well in the KHL. He’s scoring at a converted rate of 42 NHL points, based on Dobber Prospect’s NHLe Calculator.

And I said this earlier in the year as well, maybe the Flyers should have given this guy some leeway and practiced patience with him. You could have another middle 6 center right now (and another trade piece). But we know how players will turn out after 35 games split over two seasons.

It took him 3 years to reach this level in the KHL, it's not like playing him a little more at the NHL level would have made a difference.

His first year he was in a bottom six role, and probably was required to improve his defense (KHL is more defensive oriented than the SHL or AHL) to get more PT.
Second season traded to St Petersburg, put up 19 points in 41 games, but lead his team with +20.
This season the scoring is up, but he's also on a loaded team, he's 5th in scoring among forwards on his own team.

So I don't think he's "broken out" so much as probably refined his game, but if he's learned to play better defense and use his size more, could probably win a bottom six slot in the NHL.

Think the Flyers still has his rights, and his KHL contract expires after this season.
He was making the equivalent of $575K (might be less if the ruble has depreciated), so he might be tempted to take another shot at the NHL.

 

[VladDrag]

It took him 3 years to reach this level in the KHL, it's not like playing him a little more at the NHL level would have made a difference.

His first year he was in a bottom six role, and probably was required to improve his defense (KHL is more defensive oriented than the SHL or AHL) to get more PT.
Second season traded to St Petersburg, put up 19 points in 41 games, but lead his team with +20.
This season the scoring is up, but he's also on a loaded team, he's 5th in scoring among forwards on his own team.

So I don't think he's "broken out" so much as probably refined his game, but if he's learned to play better defense and use his size more, could probably win a bottom six slot in the NHL.

Think the Flyers still has his rights, and his KHL contract expires after this season.
He was making the equivalent of $575K (might be less if the ruble has depreciated), so he might be tempted to take another shot at the NHL.

How would you know what would and wouldn't have made a difference? You don't, you have no idea. You're just making things up to justify your position that he wasn't NHL material. And you know what, he might not be; he might not be able to play in the NHL. I don't know what would have happened if the Flyers gave him 80 games in the NHL.

But 35 games, over two seasons, with garbage linemates, isn't going to give you an adequate sample size to make that determination. That's the point. The Flyers didn't give him a real opportunity to develop confidence and to learn how to play at the NHL level. And as a result, they may be missing out on a middle-6 center. This is a prime example of a failure in player development. It doesn't matter if it turned out he couldn't play in the NHL. It shows an extremely flawed process - they do not put the younger marginal players in positions to succeed.

In terms of refining his game, that is player development. That's how you develop players. By age 20-22, in general players don't get markedly better at hockey skills. In other words, by their early 20's players either have sufficient skill or they don't. What they don't have is experience at the NHL level. It's not like player X gets better at poke-checking. It's that player X gets a better understanding for when to poke check, or when to step-up, or when to pass, etc. You can only do that by playing in the NHL.

 

[Beef Invictus]

How would you know what would and wouldn't have made a difference? You don't, you have no idea. You're just making things up to justify your position that he wasn't NHL material. And you know what, he might not be; he might not be able to play in the NHL. I don't know what would have happened if the Flyers gave him 80 games in the NHL.

But 35 games, over two seasons, with garbage linemates, isn't going to give you an adequate sample size to make that determination. That's the point. The Flyers didn't give him a real opportunity to develop confidence and to learn how to play at the NHL level. And as a result, they may be missing out on a middle-6 center. This is a prime example of a failure in player development. It doesn't matter if it turned out he couldn't play in the NHL. It shows an extremely flawed process - they do not put the younger marginal players in positions to succeed.

In terms of refining his game, that is player development. That's how you develop players. By age 20-22, in general players don't get markedly better at hockey skills. In other words, by their early 20's players either have sufficient skill or they don't. What they don't have is experience at the NHL level. It's not like player X gets better at poke-checking. It's that player X gets a better understanding for when to poke check, or when to step-up, or when to pass, etc. You can only do that by playing in the NHL.

The Flyers have come a long way down from being a team willing to plug Nodl into significant usage to give him every single opportunity to prove he's nothing.

 

[Tripod]

How would you know what would and wouldn't have made a difference? You don't, you have no idea. You're just making things up to justify your position that he wasn't NHL material. And you know what, he might not be; he might not be able to play in the NHL. I don't know what would have happened if the Flyers gave him 80 games in the NHL.

But 35 games, over two seasons, with garbage linemates, isn't going to give you an adequate sample size to make that determination. That's the point. The Flyers didn't give him a real opportunity to develop confidence and to learn how to play at the NHL level. And as a result, they may be missing out on a middle-6 center. This is a prime example of a failure in player development. It doesn't matter if it turned out he couldn't play in the NHL. It shows an extremely flawed process - they do not put the younger marginal players in positions to succeed.

In terms of refining his game, that is player development. That's how you develop players. By age 20-22, in general players don't get markedly better at hockey skills. In other words, by their early 20's players either have sufficient skill or they don't. What they don't have is experience at the NHL level. It's not like player X gets better at poke-checking. It's that player X gets a better understanding for when to poke check, or when to step-up, or when to pass, etc. You can only do that by playing in the NHL.

It was more important that 29 year old Phil Varone play 47 games. After all, he had 10 pts over 5 years so the Flyers had to explore that further to see if that 29 year old was going to break out.

 

[wasup]

Just checking in Mikhail Vorobyev, and just as he was in the beginning of the year, he’s producing well in the KHL. He’s scoring at a converted rate of 42 NHL points, based on Dobber Prospect’s NHLe Calculator.

And I said this earlier in the year as well, maybe the Flyers should have given this guy some leeway and practiced patience with him. You could have another middle 6 center right now (and another trade piece). But we know how players will turn out after 35 games split over two seasons.

The KHL is weaker this year with most of the talented players from Europe refusing to play there and leaving . Guys like Sedlak etc . Sedlak ran .66pts/gm over there for 2 years straight and had 8 points in 30 games over here . Vorobyev is a nothing burgar .

Context needs to be used

 

[Beef Invictus]

It was more important that 29 year old Phil Varone play 47 games. After all, he had 10 pts over 5 years so the Flyers had to explore that further to see if that 29 year old was going to break out.

Careful, or you'll be told that this was a good process.