Post-Game Talk: #49 | Kings at Flyers | January 24, 2023

[dragonoffrost]

It's not that he is not great , he is down right shitty at defense . In his last two games alone he is minus 7 and cost us both games . If one of the young guys did that they would be stapled to the bench .

Yes move Risto up with Sandheim as a reward for playing well and TDA to the third pair playing 14 mins a night and not just for 1 or 2 games . Until he figures shit out . It's not a lack of skill it's his brain that needs to be reworked .

If you play well your ice time increases is a crock of shit . Allison has been playing really well since our west coast trip and he sees 4 line mins period no matter how he plays . Cates has played good defensively and is a black hole offensively but keeps getting pp time and 1st line mins , hell last night he was the most played forward on the team 20:11 mins and mustard a bit one shot on goal and was 6/23 on faceoffs . He has 57 shots on goal in 49 games and just about dead last in pts/60 at 5vs5 . Where the Fu$%&k does that scream offense .

I have said Torts is doing well in some areas but he continues to bury his head in the sand while trying to drive a square peg into a round hole . It has not worked with a mallet so he has gone to a 5 lbs hammer and is now looking for a sledge hammer . His standard seems to vary depending on who you are .

The one thing TDA has done is take the pressure off Seeler .

Allison is a wing and Cates is playing out of position at Center.... Apples to Oranges

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Look beside Sanheim for the reason for those issues...Sanheim is trying to do too much. Shit even Torts has realized the issue with that pair and benched the issue.

Sanheim is struggling in his own right, & has for much of the season regardless of partner. It can’t all be blamed on TDA.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Ya we can blame Flusher but it's Torts who keeps putting him out . Yesterdays presser Torts says he really likes his offence but needs work closing out guys in their own end . He does not even see the problem of constant turnovers or passes right to the opposition leading directly to goals . He is constantly caught up the ice with no reguard for playing D . He and Sandheim were terrible yesterday and who the F does he put out for OT .

People on here claiming Torts is a coaching wonder child need to give it a break . He has done some good things yes , but there are countless bonner moves and decisions all the time .

Who can be put out on the roster vs who should be put out there?

If the question is who should be put out there, its one of the kids 100 out of a 100. I don't care if its Picard, Ginning, Z You play a rookie every day the rest of the year, put up with the sins of the youth, and find out. Could they flop? Sure. But at least you have more information for next year.

Choosing being Braun and ADA is lose lose. Braun you get blandness, slowness, oldness and nothing in the future. Maybe a 4th at the deadline? ooooohhhhh aaaaahhhhhhh. If you pick ada you get fun skills, poor d, lousy 5x5 unless you have a top 8 team who can hide him, and a slightly better pp. You also slow the pp development of York. Not saying York is a pp1 as of today. I am saying if you were rebuilding instead of refarting you play him there 40 games.

The trade of ADA to a team coach by Torts is baffling at best galactically stupid at worse. So when I see Flusher and the front office I think....

 

[JXC]

Sanheim is struggling in his own right, & has for much of the season regardless of partner. It can’t all be blamed on TDA.

People here have been blaming Sanheim’s mistakes on his partners for years. “Sabotage”

I like Sanheim.

But I think Torts is right - they’re playing much better but they don’t have the top tier players to overcome mistakes by ordinary players like Sanheim Frost Hart TDA

 

[dragonoffrost]

Sanheim is struggling in his own right, & has for much of the season regardless of partner. It can’t all be blamed on TDA.

It's a hell of a lot worse with TDA.

Funny how Provy and TDA looked like trash and Sanheim and TDA look like trash... Maybe if the first parts of those equations improve away from part 2 of each it might be part 2 more than part 1.

People here have been blaming Sanheim’s mistakes on his partners for years. “Sabotage”

I like Sanheim.

But I think Torts is right - they’re playing much better but they don’t have the top tier players to overcome mistakes by ordinary players like Sanheim Frost Hart TDA

This alone proves you haven't watched games this year. Without that one person this team is fighting for the top pick.

 

[Flyer lurker]

People here have been blaming Sanheim’s mistakes on his partners for years. “Sabotage”

I like Sanheim.

But I think Torts is right - they’re playing much better but they don’t have the top tier players to overcome mistakes by ordinary players like Sanheim Frost Hart TDA

Sanheim and Provorov are in the 2 to 3 range and not 1's. They need a solid pairing to look good. They aren't Hedman who can turn Schenn and Ruttu into 20 minutes players. ADA has the midas touch to turn whatever he touches into manure. He must have learned from Flusher.

 

[wasup]

Allison is a wing and Cates is playing out of position at Center.... Apples to Oranges

Then move Cates back to wing and put Hayes at center cause he is playing out of position as well and he can at least take a draw .

 

[deadhead]

Wings can take faceoffs, G did it all the time.

Cates is a much better defensive center than Hayes.

Hayes is a much better LW than center at this point in his career, like G, it's a case of "less is more," without the burden of playing center, Hayes can skate a lot less and his defensive responsibilities are more limited. He's not only scoring more, he's no longer a defensive liability.

 

[Curufinwe]

Then move Cates back to wing and put Hayes at center cause he is playing out of position as well and he can at least take a draw .

Torts is pot committed to playing Cates and Hayes out of position and using two dmen in OT no matter how terrible the results are.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Is there video of the TDA dive?

 

[Flyer lurker]

Is there video of the TDA dive?

Here ya go.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Torts is pot committed to playing Cates and Hayes out of position and using two dmen in OT no matter how terrible the results are.

There is not any evidence out there that Cates is a top 3 c or quite frankly will turn into a top 3 c. You want to make a case long term Hayes's best spot is on the wing? I can see it. But developing a 3rd line wing to play c when he can't play c is bizarre.

 

[deadhead]

There is not any evidence out there that Cates is a top 3 c or quite frankly will turn into a top 3 c. You want to make a case long term Hayes's best spot is on the wing? I can see it. But developing a 3rd line wing to play c when he can't play c is bizarre.

It's not like they have a lot of options.
The only viable center in LHV is Desnoyers.
Gauthier is still a question mark and in college.
Avon is an undrafted signing who is a D+2 in the CHL.
Laczynski is injured, again.

 

[Tripod]

Here ya go.

So we put out 2 Dmen and neither one was the man back.

Makes sense.

 

[Tripod]

It's not like they have a lot of options.
The only viable center in LHV is Desnoyers.
Gauthier is still a question mark and in college.
Avon is an undrafted signing who is a D+2 in the CHL.
Laczynski is injured, again.

Whose fault is it that their are not more options?

Maybe don't spend almost 2 million on a 4th line LW who is incapable of playing up in the lineup. Maybe don't sign MacEwen and sign a capable C instead.

 

[Magua]

Sanheim played much better with Risto than he has with TDA.

Could that be because TDA has been a bottom 2 defender in the league, and he has the worst relxGA/60 among all NHL defenders? Is that a good stylistic fit for Sanheim? Is that a good stylistic fit for ANY defender? He absolutely tanked Provorov too. This is an unplayably costly player right now, big mistakes and net impact.

Sanheim's statistical track record is spotless as a play-driver, with pretty much everyone. Ristolainen has a career as one of the worst in the league. You've done this before, trying to credit Sanheim's stats to Ristolainen, and it's just plain weird. Like no shit Sanheim performed better with Risto than with this version of TDA.......and your point is? You can't just outright rip TDA because there has to be an angle.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Could that be because TDA has been a bottom 2 defender in the league, and he has the worst relxGA/60 among all NHL defenders? Is that a good stylistic fit for Sanheim? Is that a good stylistic fit for ANY defender? He absolutely tanked Provorov too. This is an unplayably costly player right now, big mistakes and net impact.

Sanheim's statistical track record is spotless as a play-driver, with pretty much everyone. Ristolainen has a career as one of the worst in the league. You've done this before, trying to credit Sanheim's stats to Ristolainen, and it's just plain weird. Like no shit Sanheim performed better with Risto than with this version of TDA.......and your point is? You can't just outright rip TDA because there has to be an angle.

Polishing up Ristolainen as the secret key to unlocking Sanheim is a way of giving credit to Fletcher for "fixing" a Hextall error, I'm sure.

 

[deadhead]

Whose fault is it that their are not more options?

Maybe don't spend almost 2 million on a 4th line LW who is incapable of playing up in the lineup. Maybe don't sign MacEwen and sign a capable C instead.

Neither Deslauriers or MacEwen kept them from signing a center, their net cost is about $500K to $1M (because someone costing $750K to $1M would be on the active roster).

The problem is all the centers they drafted flopped, Patrick, Vorobyev, Rubtsov, JOB, Bunnaman.
When you use 4 1st rd picks on centers, and end up with 1 starter . . .

 

[Beef Invictus]

Neither Deslauriers or MacEwen kept them from signing a center, their net cost is about $500K to $1M (because someone costing $750K to $1M would be on the active roster).

The problem is all the centers they drafted flopped, Patrick, Vorobyev, Rubtsov, JOB, Bunnaman.
When you use 4 1st rd picks on centers, and end up with 1 starter . . .

...then you're probably shit at development.

 

[deadhead]

Could that be because TDA has been a bottom 2 defender in the league, and he has the worst relxGA/60 among all NHL defenders? Is that a good stylistic fit for Sanheim? Is that a good stylistic fit for ANY defender? He absolutely tanked Provorov too. This is an unplayably costly player right now, big mistakes and net impact.

Sanheim's statistical track record is spotless as a play-driver, with pretty much everyone. Ristolainen has a career as one of the worst in the league. You've done this before, trying to credit Sanheim's stats to Ristolainen, and it's just plain weird. Like no shit Sanheim performed better with Risto than with this version of TDA.......and your point is? You can't just outright rip TDA because there has to be an angle.

Worked for Tennessee.

If TDA is dragging Sanheim down, and he's comfortable with Risto (Sanheim has said so), it kinda makes sense to pair Sanheim with Risto. Risto does compliment Sanheim b/c his biggest strength is Sanheim's biggest weakness, retrieving pucks in the D-zone. If Sanheim is driving play, then Risto doesn't have to and can focus more on defense.

Risto IS playing much better since he returned to the lineup, both the metrics and eyeballs show it. He uses his stick a lot more, doesn't take the body as much in the D-zone or chase hits to the same extent, but does take the body more in the neutral zone in the flow of the game. A work in progress, but seems to be learning to play within his limitations.

 

[Tripod]

Neither Deslauriers or MacEwen kept them from signing a center, their net cost is about $500K to $1M (because someone costing $750K to $1M would be on the active roster).

The problem is all the centers they drafted flopped, Patrick, Vorobyev, Rubtsov, JOB, Bunnaman.
When you use 4 1st rd picks on centers, and end up with 1 starter . . .

Except none of these guys were in the Flyers plans this offseason so it's not like they were counting on them. And instead of targeting a C, they re-signed Z and targeted Deslauriers as their big F signing.

Maybe target needs instead of plugs.

 

[Rich Nixon]

So we put out 2 Dmen and neither one was the man back.

Makes sense.

So many funny things there. One, the outcry from Jim Jackson and the Authentics about how it was DEFINITELY A PENALTY and the boys got SCREWED.

Two, it's clearly a dive--DeAngelo isn't reacting to the goalie, he's reacting to the action to his left. He felt a stick around his midsection and flopped for a hooking call. The problem? The stick was most likely Sanheim's.

Third, WHY AS A DEFENSEMAN ARE YOU SKATING BEHIND THE OPPOSING NET (and behind all three of the Kings skaters) WITHOUT POSSESSION OF THE PUCK.

 

[Flyer lurker]

It's not like they have a lot of options.
The only viable center in LHV is Desnoyers.
Gauthier is still a question mark and in college.
Avon is an undrafted signing who is a D+2 in the CHL.
Laczynski is injured, again.

Hayes at center is easily the best option.
Its not the option I am going gaga for, but it is what it is
At 26/27 maybe Cates can turn into a Laughton who is a wing who can fill at center. But even that is optimistic. Its just a really odd way to develop Cates. And I don't want to turn Cates into a bishop I sacrifice so I can save the queen Hayes.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Except none of these guys were in the Flyers plans this offseason so it's not like they were counting on them. And instead of targeting a C, they re-signed Z and targeted Deslauriers as their big F signing.

Maybe target needs instead of plugs.

Maybe if its a need over talent signing, sign a player for 1 year 2 max and reevaluate rather than signed garbage players for 4 years.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Except none of these guys were in the Flyers plans this offseason so it's not like they were counting on them. And instead of targeting a C, they re-signed Z and targeted Deslauriers as their big F signing.

Maybe target needs instead of plugs.

Domi 1 year at 3m over Desi and trading for ADA 10 out of 10.

And I am not pretending Domi is a long term solution. He is flawed big time! But its better than full out panic and give the goon a 4 year deal.