Post-Game Talk: 40 Shots Against for the 11th time this Season. 5-1 Loss to Winnipeg

[theTTC]

Randy is just covering up that career dissipation light that is starting to go off in his eyes now.

The room has been lost one way or another. Matters not how or why... just needs to be fixed with both randy and a few players paying the price for these embarrassments.

This myopic view still slays me. Listen up. The core that Nonis has inherited/assembled burned Ron Wilson and now probably Randy. What makes you even begin to imagine that this is a coaching issue? Randy now has two modern high-octane assistant coaches with him and even that injection of fresh perspective and style hasn't been able to affect a change. Perhaps there is an available coach out there who would probably get slightly better response from this Leaf team in the short term, but most other candidates would have the same or worse results. The players are not at fault, they are what they are, and any coach will not get more from them than the players have been able to give so far.

The fault is entirely with Nonis and his management crew. It is not the coach who scouts and acquires the players - he literally just works with what he is handed by management. And today's coaching staff was handed the core that will soon begin destroying it's third head coach.

Oh, and is this the same Leaf nation bunch that wanted a non-tough non-fighting 4th line? Hows that one working out for you? Its like I posted earlier this season and its starting now as other teams get serious about making the playoffs: Bruins injure three of our top guys 'cause whos going to stop them, Dustin lays the smackdown on basically the entire Leaf roster, and every game our captain is taunted to fight by the other team's 4th line punks. Makes me sick some Leaf "fans" wanted this type of team, and got it.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

It's a mixed bag with him, I created a best trades thread for Burke and some of them were very good deals. The problem really started with Kessel, once that dye was cast, there was no way of getting out from under that deal. Sealed our fate. He really needs to be moved for this franchise to move fwd.

Trades are pretty good FA signings were a disaster. I still maintain I would have done Kessel for a first and 2 seconds.

I wouldn't have. We were too weak a team to absorb Kessel's faults. Not the right player at the right time for this franchise on and off the ice. He really is not very likeable. When you think of the most favourite leafs, Glimour, Clark, Sundin, Sittler. He is the farthest thing from them, on opposite spectrums.

The problem is that you don't start a rebuild with a trade. Draft, draft and draft some more until you have the core. That's a flawed plan destined for failure IMHO.

 

[SCP Guy]

He's a UFA this summer I believe.

Buff is a UFA next summer.

 

[Durkin67]

This myopic view still slays me. Listen up. The core that Nonis has inherited/assembled burned Ron Wilson and now probably Randy. What makes you even begin to imagine that this is a coaching issue? Randy now has two modern high-octane assistant coaches with him and even that injection of fresh perspective and style hasn't been able to affect a change. Perhaps there is an available coach out there who would probably get slightly better response from this Leaf team in the short term, but most other candidates would have the same or worse results. The players are not at fault, they are what they are, and any coach will not get more from them than the players have been able to give so far.

The fault is entirely with Nonis and his management crew. It is not the coach who scouts and acquires the players - he literally just works with what he is handed by management. And today's coaching staff was handed the core that will soon begin destroying it's third head coach.

Oh, and is this the same Leaf nation bunch that wanted a non-tough non-fighting 4th line? Hows that one working out for you? Its like I posted earlier this season and its starting now as other teams get serious about making the playoffs: Bruins injure three of our top guys 'cause whos going to stop them, Dustin lays the smackdown on basically the entire Leaf roster, and every game our captain is taunted to fight by the other team's 4th line punks. Makes me sick some Leaf "fans" wanted this type of team, and got it.

Preach....


Couldn't help but think the same last night as Buff single handedly imposed his will on each and every player that came within 5 feet of him.

Those morale defeats can be so deflating.

This team is not engineered to compete consistently. It will tease with flashes of offence, and that will temporarily placate the masses, but they just don't have the instincts to really come together and gut it out and win.

Sadly, the coach will wear this and it likely costs him his job. The other side of it is he has given Kessel too much leeway. Can you imagine Pt Burns (RIP) coaching Kessel? How much of his selfish play would Burns tolerate before gluing his ass to the pine?

Would Quinn (RIP) sit back and watch Bozak and CO. float and refuse to fall back and support the D? Maybe for about half a shift.

RC has been neutered by Kessel.

The team is being held hostage by a select few who simply refuse to play to the structure laid out.

-Spott lays out a new breakout strategy. Kessel Vetoes it.
-Carlyle and Shanny ask him to switch to the left so Bozak isn't passing on his back hand. Kessel refuses.
- Salute-gate.
-that selfish penalty in Minny
-Kessel demanding more ice, even though the longer he's out there, the worse his +/- becomes.
-Gardiner refusing to engage
-Bozak, Kessel and JvR refusing to come back and give the D some breakout options.
-Game day skates cancelled. Why? they are meant to help the guys burn off lactic acid buildup, go over structure and systems, and evaluate game time decision guys with soreness and injury issues.

Anyone seeing a trend? Anyone still think you can win with these guys?

The inmates have assumed control of the asylum that is MLSand E

 

[NarcoPolo]

Anyone look half decent last night?

 

[BLONG7]

The problem is that you don't start a rebuild with a trade. Draft, draft and draft some more until you have the core. That's a flawed plan destined for failure IMHO.

Thank Burkie...?

 

[Mess]

This myopic view still slays me. Listen up. The core that Nonis has inherited/assembled burned Ron Wilson and now probably Randy. What makes you even begin to imagine that this is a coaching issue? Randy now has two modern high-octane assistant coaches with him and even that injection of fresh perspective and style hasn't been able to affect a change. Perhaps there is an available coach out there who would probably get slightly better response from this Leaf team in the short term, but most other candidates would have the same or worse results. The players are not at fault, they are what they are, and any coach will not get more from them than the players have been able to give so far.

The fault is entirely with Nonis and his management crew. It is not the coach who scouts and acquires the players - he literally just works with what he is handed by management. And today's coaching staff was handed the core that will soon begin destroying it's third head coach.

Shanny with high probability understands that bolded portion, and its the main reason he knows he has plenty of work to do with the roster before exposing his next coach to this player personnel.

Not sure there is any coach in the World that can take a bunch of 100ft offensive players and make them into a solid 200ft successful team.

The Jets put on a clinic yesterday showing how to control the puck and the clock and win in today's NHL and they did that missing their top 4 Dmen and top scorer in Evander Kane.

 

[Erdinger]

Remember though it was the players who eventually got even Pat Burns fired. They wanted a player's guy like Mike Murphy. That worked out well.

 

[YOYOTCROSTER*]

Durkin67 nailed it perfectly.
The billion dollar question is how to fix it.
Fire Nonis and rest of the old team still there and Shanny can say he is letting carlyle coach without worrying about salary cap.
Sit Kessel Phaneuf Franson Gardiner Lupul for a few games as they are what they are as players and they can't be changed and let nhl know you are having a fire sale. Get as many #1 and #2 picks for all of them.Build through draft.
Bring up Kozun Percy McLaren.
Go with 4 defence largely Percy and Polak and Rielly and Robidas.
Go with 2 lines largely Komarov Bozak JVR and Santorelli Naz and Winik. Holland Kozun and Clarkson can make up a 3rd line.

Naz and JVR and Clarkson can be salvaged as they come from families that injected them with confidence and inner toughness. However they have watched Kessel and Phaneuf get away with murder with no punishment and it has affected their thinking. Carlyle needs to let team know that if breakout not followed going forward because someone is scared to get hit then they will have to sit. Shanny needs to let nhl know that mlse will take on all the financial penalties of screwing up the nhl salary cap system.

This season is not over yet.

Kessel is scared to get hit and has no interest in playing defence ever.
Phaneuf is scared to get nailed by tougher guys in league on every team so his tough guy ways will never work and rest of league and Dion knows it.
Franson just can't skate at the nhl level sad really.
Gqrdiner has no hockey sense although he is not afraid just not bright enough which is a nice way of saying it.
Lupul is too injury prone and he has serious defensive issues in his own end too but he is not afriad either.

 

[hockeyes]

The season is going exactly as planned, don't expect much if any changes.

Best we can hope for is they sell a few pieces before the TDL and salvage something from this year.

They probably go on a little run leading up to the TDL and petition management to give them another chance though, and then proceed to mail it letting Franson and Santa walk for nothing in the summer.

 

[Slot]

This myopic view still slays me. Listen up. The core that Nonis has inherited/assembled burned Ron Wilson and now probably Randy. What makes you even begin to imagine that this is a coaching issue? Randy now has two modern high-octane assistant coaches with him and even that injection of fresh perspective and style hasn't been able to affect a change. Perhaps there is an available coach out there who would probably get slightly better response from this Leaf team in the short term, but most other candidates would have the same or worse results. The players are not at fault, they are what they are, and any coach will not get more from them than the players have been able to give so far.

The fault is entirely with Nonis and his management crew. It is not the coach who scouts and acquires the players - he literally just works with what he is handed by management. And today's coaching staff was handed the core that will soon begin destroying it's third head coach.

Oh, and is this the same Leaf nation bunch that wanted a non-tough non-fighting 4th line? Hows that one working out for you? Its like I posted earlier this season and its starting now as other teams get serious about making the playoffs: Bruins injure three of our top guys 'cause whos going to stop them, Dustin lays the smackdown on basically the entire Leaf roster, and every game our captain is taunted to fight by the other team's 4th line punks. Makes me sick some Leaf "fans" wanted this type of team, and got it.

I honestly think Wilson was more a victim of terrible goaltending than most believe. The possession stats were actually not terrible under his systems.

The problem I have with randy is that the possession stats under him in Anaheim were just as putrid as they are here. Which shows an underlying problem with his coaching style / system.

Get rid of randy and let someone else coach for the last half on an interim basis and let the stars ride the pine until they listen or prove that they can't/won't. Trade those in column B for a bag of used pucks if necessary.

 

[81Reasons]

Jets fans are weird.

I think I heard "Leafs Suck" more than "Go Jets Go." There's no rivalry between us. Also don't get the point of chanting Reimer's name with 15 seconds left in a 5-1 game. I sort of feel bad for Reimer. The Leafs were pitiful.

I think what you were hearing were Leafs fans chanting. At one point when the score was close early in the second period there was a loud "go Leafs go" chant...then as the game completely fell apart those same fans then decided to chant "Leafs Suck".

Reimer must want out and it's possible Bernier may be thinking perhaps life may be better elsewhere....he's going to hold a gun to the Leafs head in his next contract negotiations and we will overpay

 

[Erdinger]

I think what you were hearing were Leafs fans chanting. At one point when the score was close early in the second period there was a loud "go Leafs go" chant...then as the game completely fell apart those same fans then decided to chant "Leafs Suck".

Reimer must want out and it's possible Bernier may be thinking perhaps life may be better elsewhere....he's going to hold a gun to the Leafs head in his next contract negotiations and we will overpay

I think it was Leafs fans as well

 

[ULF_55]

As a Vancouver fan, I could probably sense why. First of all it's likely because the media pay too much attention on the leafs( it'll makes sense if leafs is an elite team but they're not) even years ago when we won back to back president trophies we still didn't get as much attentions as the leafs got, and then there's the "center of the hockey's universe" BS. Finally, TSN shows too many leafs' videos.(I remember I once saw a leafs' practice footage on TSN1)

As a Calgary resident I can say Calgary supports the Flames.

All talk radio is about the Flames.

TV is about the Flames.

Perhaps the fans in Calgary care about their team so the local media covers it?

 

[FerrisRox]

As a Calgary resident I can say Calgary supports the Flames.

All talk radio is about the Flames.

TV is about the Flames.

Perhaps the fans in Calgary care about their team so the local media covers it?

He's referring to (allegedly) national media, in this case, TSN.

I do think TSN has got better about this, but there have been occasions when another Canadian team will be playing a top club, like say Anaheim but instead of leading with that game, they would do things like show a Leaf second liner getting hurt by taking a shot to the skate boot in practice.

The frustration of a fan in another city seeing a National broadcast prioritize a Leaf practice injury over your actual them playing that night against a top opponent, perhaps with real stakes on the line is palpable.

 

[ULF_55]

Pfft you guys can't even put a full 18 together.

That's just the passenger side.

 

[Erdinger]

As a Calgary resident I can say Calgary supports the Flames.

All talk radio is about the Flames.

TV is about the Flames.

Perhaps the fans in Calgary care about their team so the local media covers it?

Having lived in both Calgary and Vancouver I realized that Vancouver has an unhealthy obsession with Toronto that isn't as evident in YYC. But then again Vancouver is so boring it's not surprising.

 

[ULF_55]

He's referring to (allegedly) national media, in this case, TSN.

I do think TSN has got better about this, but there have been occasions when another Canadian team will be playing a top club, like say Anaheim but instead of leading with that game, they would do things like show a Leaf second liner getting hurt by taking a shot to the skate boot in practice.

The frustration of a fan in another city seeing a National broadcast prioritize a Leaf practice injury over your actual them playing that night against a top opponent, perhaps with real stakes on the line is palpable.

Probably just a lack of a good audience, or market demand.

I have to pay extra to get Leafs' news in Calgary.

I know just blame Toronto because your local market doesn't demand or pay for the service.

 

[Hyperglide]

I haven't gone to the Winnipeg board but I'm guess they are celebrating over there like they just won the Stanley cup eh?

 

[ULF_55]

Having lived in both Calgary and Vancouver I realized that Vancouver has an unhealthy obsession with Toronto that isn't as evident in YYC. But then again Vancouver is so boring it's not surprising.

Bloody cold here, but we get a lot of sun ... in saying that I'd never retire in this winter wonderland. Mind you I'd never retire in overcast city either.

If production cost was non-existent every city could have their own all day every day sports channel.

Do other cities refer to the Airport as often as YYC?

 

[Hyperglide]

lol glad I missed this game. Apparently the first page means it was bad. I knew that 10-1-1 streak was a mirage. It happens all the time with these scrubs we call a "team." They go on massive cold and hot streaks. When they don't have the goaltending they are going to suck, huge. The offense, while the Leafs forte, can't keep outscoring the opposition every game and our defense is probably only better then the Oilers in terms of ineptitude.

So, add it all up. When your defense always sucks, you have a bad night of goaltending (which is asking a lot to have your goalies stand on their head every night) and your offense dries up what do you expect is going to happen?

This team. Just. Sucks.

 

[TheOneArmedMan]

This myopic view still slays me. Listen up. The core that Nonis has inherited/assembled burned Ron Wilson and now probably Randy. What makes you even begin to imagine that this is a coaching issue? Randy now has two modern high-octane assistant coaches with him and even that injection of fresh perspective and style hasn't been able to affect a change. Perhaps there is an available coach out there who would probably get slightly better response from this Leaf team in the short term, but most other candidates would have the same or worse results. The players are not at fault, they are what they are, and any coach will not get more from them than the players have been able to give so far.

The fault is entirely with Nonis and his management crew. It is not the coach who scouts and acquires the players - he literally just works with what he is handed by management. And today's coaching staff was handed the core that will soon begin destroying it's third head coach.

Oh, and is this the same Leaf nation bunch that wanted a non-tough non-fighting 4th line? Hows that one working out for you? Its like I posted earlier this season and its starting now as other teams get serious about making the playoffs: Bruins injure three of our top guys 'cause whos going to stop them, Dustin lays the smackdown on basically the entire Leaf roster, and every game our captain is taunted to fight by the other team's 4th line punks. Makes me sick some Leaf "fans" wanted this type of team, and got it.

Then how do you explain why Randy was canned in Anahiem with the same core on that team? He had a cup contending team when he ws fired, then after the team went back to being in the top of their conference again. Dan Bylsma was canned in pittsburgh even though they were a top team in the league after he won a cup. I still think Carlyle is a big part of the problem. Even sports journalists have said he has a quote "ultra passive system", and it shows how they get hammered in their own end game after game.

 

[Hyperglide]

Needs a "Finish Him!" caption. His dazed wobbling motion before he facepalms reminds me of Mortal Kombat.

 

[Erdinger]

Needs a "Finish Him!" caption. His dazed wobbling motion before he facepalms reminds me of Mortal Kombat.

That's too funny

 

[Nithoniniel]

I think what you were hearing were Leafs fans chanting. At one point when the score was close early in the second period there was a loud "go Leafs go" chant...then as the game completely fell apart those same fans then decided to chant "Leafs Suck".

Reimer must want out and it's possible Bernier may be thinking perhaps life may be better elsewhere....he's going to hold a gun to the Leafs head in his next contract negotiations and we will overpay

There were a ton of those mocking Reimer-chants as well, doubt that's from Leafs fans. I heard those and the 'Leafs Suck'-chants throughout the game, with only some 'Go Jets Go!' in between. Definitely feel like it's an odd crowd, have a reputation for this kind of stuff as well.