Post-Game Talk: 40 Shots Against for the 11th time this Season. 5-1 Loss to Winnipeg

[Bluejaysfan*]

Bolts fan here in peace (if that is possible). We have a few threads on our board regarding if we can retain Stamkos (I'm sure you've read and posted on them). TML fans would love nothing more than the hometown boy to return, I get that and understand the romance of the story line.

I think about (as a Tampa fan) what (over-payment) deal can be struck. TML's issues are not with the boys on the ice (other than Kessel, he's lazier than Ovi on an off night), it is the lousy contracts that management has struck with pretty average players. There is no one (nearly) on the Leaf's squad that can be dealt for that is worth their contract $$. It would take the next several (many) years' 1st round picks and a couple of A prospects to make a meaningful deal. Just not going to happen (not withstanding a MSL-like trade demand).

I think Shanahan is a quality guy and will do well in your front office but it will take some years to purge the crap that's currently on the books.

The draft system is stacked against mid-tier teams as they do not get premier picks while at the same time they do not enjoy large success. The Bolts have had the "luxury" of really sucking for a few years and were rewarded with Stammer and Hedman for those failures. A team can build around those two picks. A mid-performing team never gets that pedigree.

Your build will begin with purging bad contracts thru time and trades (probably that retain salary). Stammer and Babcock would be substantial upgrades but don't plan on either of those deals to just fall in place "because it's Toronto". It's more likely that that time and cap inflation will heal all wounds. If your management team really can't wait, I'm sure Stevie Y can come up with an offer they can't refuse.

You came here to state the obvious because?

 

[Trapper]

Hrudey (wel Doug Armstrong) more spot on: Surround him with character players

I thought Phaneuf,Winnik,Leo,Santorelli,Clarkson,Polak,Robidas etc. were all character players. What do you want them to do? Hold his hand and win a puck battle? Or just engage in one.

 

[garce]

It's a mixed bag with him, I created a best trades thread for Burke and some of them were very good deals. The problem really started with Kessel, once that dye was cast, there was no way of getting out from under that deal. Sealed our fate. He really needs to be moved for this franchise to move fwd.

Trades are pretty good FA signings were a disaster. I still maintain I would have done Kessel for a first and 2 seconds.

 

[YOYOTCROSTER*]

Leafs character showed through tonight

Sad state but Leafs can only play run and gun score off the rush hockey.
When they are tired there can be no backup plan.

They have zero ability to forecheck and cycle cause they don't like to hit so dumb abd chase will never work. They have zero willingness to play strong defence in the corners and on the wall cause they are afraid of getting hit so they have no breakout. They don't play defence cause they are scared to block shots and get in shooting lanes.

Therefore they are a 1 trick pony team. As games tighten up as season progresses and other teams tighten up for playoffs the Leafs will struggle as they did last season.

Hard to blame the coach as there is no character to work with on that club the way it was designed.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Trades are pretty good FA signings were a disaster. I still maintain I would have done Kessel for a first and 2 seconds.

I wouldn't have. We were too weak a team to absorb Kessel's faults. Not the right player at the right time for this franchise on and off the ice. He really is not very likeable. When you think of the most favourite leafs, Glimour, Clark, Sundin, Sittler. He is the farthest thing from them, on opposite spectrums.

 

[Rayzorexe]

The only person to have a decent game tonight was probably Santorelli

 

[Duffman955]

dam we collapsed faster than last year.

can we clean house now?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Montreal's 5 game road trip was also spread over 12 days (including Christmas and New Years).

Toronto was brutal tonight and should have been better. But this was a pretty brutal stretch as far as GP and timelines go.

They needed to bank points against TB and FLA, but blew it.

that's true.
i was cranky. I'm sorry person I snapped at I didn't mean to.

but still other teams have to do 5 in 7s too. and other teams are literally desicimated and you couldn't tell. Yes, we're missing a line, but again in Winnipeg, they're missing two pairings and their best offensive player.

i don't want to hear "but it was a tough road trip."

He probably should be in the AHL away from this disaster, but certainly he could be traded like everyone else.

well all i mean is, if anyone can be traded than you can't say "but we'll keep Bernier". ANYONE (including Bernier should be on theblock). but you need your building pieces. which is why i gather you want to keep Bernier, but I would also build around Morgan -unless like garce suggested - you want to move him to get #2 but then we're having more forwards and who on defense?

 

[share]

Now that Cap Geek is closed down, it is not going to be easy to follow the league in trade proposals not knowing where a team stands with it's cap

 

[garce]

I wouldn't have. We were too weak a team to absorb Kessel's faults. Not the right player at the right time for this franchise on and off the ice. He really is not very likeable. When you think of the most favourite leafs, Glimour, Clark, Sundin, Sittler. He is the farthest thing from them, on opposite spectrums.

It's all about perception isn't it? I can tell you from personal experience that two of the fellows on your list are not very likeable. Great hockey players and fun to watch, likability has little to do with my opinion of them as players. Don't know Kessel at all or anything about him other than what is general knowledge.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It's all about perception isn't it? I can tell you from personal experience that two of the fellows on your list are not very likeable. Great hockey players and fun to watch, likability has little to do with my opinion of them as players. Don't know Kessel at all or anything about him other than what is general knowledge.

Don't get me wrong, I was not talking about Phil personally. I know nothing about him personally. I do know enough of him as a hockey player, I like his skill and speed. But that's about it. In hockey you need more than skill and speed.

 

[ULF_55]

well all i mean is, if anyone can be traded than you can't say "but we'll keep Bernier". ANYONE (including Bernier should be on theblock). but you need your building pieces. which is why i gather you want to keep Bernier, but I would also build around Morgan -unless like garce suggested - you want to move him to get #2 but then we're having more forwards and who on defense?

You need one good goaltender.

You could argue Bernier is one of the better goaltenders in the league, you cannot argue Rielly is one of the better defenders.

Rielly is one of 6 defensemen.

If someone came with a great deal for Rielly I'd be fine moving him, although I'd be much happier moving Phaneuf before Rielly.

 

[Gallagbi]

but still other teams have to do 5 in 7s too. and other teams are literally desicimated and you couldn't tell. Yes, we're missing a line, but again in Winnipeg, they're missing two pairings and their best offensive player.

i don't want to hear "but it was a tough road trip."

I'd actually be interested to see how the Leafs stack up schedule-wise against the rest of the league (I'm not doing the leg work for it).

Back-to-backs vs. tired teams, vs. rested teams, 3in4s, 5in7s, back-to-backs less than 24 hours apart, etc..

 

[Damifino]

You came here to state the obvious because?

Because 1) I think Shanahan is the first step in the right direction - as much as I hated him as a player, he's a quality guy. 2) I'd love to chat up an epic trade - it's fun to be the GM king.

 

[Maplebeasts]

You need one good goaltender.

You could argue Bernier is one of the better goaltenders in the league, you cannot argue Rielly is one of the better defenders.

Rielly is one of 6 defensemen.

If someone came with a great deal for Rielly I'd be fine moving him, although I'd be much happier moving Phaneuf before Rielly.

Bernier is 26 and Mo is 20. I bet there isn't many good defenders in the league who are that age. Please don't say Trouba or Maatta, they aren't even close to elite yet

 

[ULF_55]

I'd actually be interested to see how the Leafs stack up schedule-wise against the rest of the league (I'm not doing the leg work for it).

Back-to-backs vs. tired teams, vs. rested teams, 3in4s, 5in7s, back-to-backs less than 24 hours apart, etc..

I don't think the outcome of the game should have come as a surprise for the reasons you mentioned, and the fact the team isn't very sound.

We all know about how Corsi is all the rage, and if it is to be believed and used correctly (team and group analysis) the Leafs are not a good team. Corsi puts them bottom 5 in the league.

Bottom 5 team, tired, missing their 2nd. and 3rd. line center, no surprise they were completely dominated.

 

[ULF_55]

Bernier is 26 and Mo is 20. I bet there isn't many good defenders in the league who are that age. Please don't say Trouba or Maatta, they aren't even close to elite yet

I don't disagree, Rielly looks quite good some nights, in spurts, but no he isn't looking elite or even close to elite, today at age 20.

 

[garce]

Don't get me wrong, I was not talking about Phil personally. I know nothing about him personally. I do know enough of him as a hockey player, I like his skill and speed. But that's about it. In hockey you need more than skill and speed.

All I ask is effort, if it's true that he's out of shape, the horse is out of the barn he's got 64 mil. Won't be a happy 64 in Toronto if that's possible. But if it's true that he wants to win and is competitive then maturity and a better supporting cast could still lead to contending. He may not be the lead dog, but could definitely be one of the top ones pulling the team.

 

[ULF_55]

All I ask is effort, if it's true that he's out of shape, the horse is out of the barn he's got 64 mil. Won't be a happy 64 in Toronto if that's possible. But if it's true that he wants to win and is competitive then maturity and a better supporting cast could still lead to contending. He may not be the lead dog, but could definitely be one of the top ones pulling the team.

San Jose, perhaps St. Louis?

 

[A1LeafNation]

Time for more jersey's on ice.

 

[Bomber0104]

I'd actually be interested to see how the Leafs stack up schedule-wise against the rest of the league (I'm not doing the leg work for it).

Back-to-backs vs. tired teams, vs. rested teams, 3in4s, 5in7s, back-to-backs less than 24 hours apart, etc..

The season starts and stops for everyone at the same date and they all play 82.

It evens out.

There is no conspiracy.

I know we all want to look for a silver lining.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

All I ask is effort, if it's true that he's out of shape, the horse is out of the barn he's got 64 mil. Won't be a happy 64 in Toronto if that's possible. But if it's true that he wants to win and is competitive then maturity and a better supporting cast could still lead to contending. He may not be the lead dog, but could definitely be one of the top ones pulling the team.

Kessel is absolutely a support player. Not sure which team will want him? The coach that signs off on him will have to give his thumbs up. He would drive Hitchcock nuts if he were on the Blues. Can't imagine him lasting a week with Hitch, but stranger things have happened. I do think he could play for Laviolette in Nashville. And without cap geek, I will take an educated guess their cap is fine to take on Kessel's 8M per.

 

[garce]

All I ask is effort, if it's true that he's out of shape, the horse is out of the barn he's got 64 mil. Won't be a happy 64 in Toronto if that's possible. But if it's true that he wants to win and is competitive then maturity and a better supporting cast could still lead to contending. He may not be the lead dog, but could definitely be one of the top ones pulling the team.

San Jose, perhaps St. Louis?

Welp, if the Leafs were dealing Kessel, St Louis would seem like a good spot. Don't see anyway Marleau or Jumbo wave to Toronto (thank goodness). Minne for Brodin and Pominville and a pick?

 

[Bomber0104]

Bolts fan here in peace (if that is possible). We have a few threads on our board regarding if we can retain Stamkos (I'm sure you've read and posted on them). TML fans would love nothing more than the hometown boy to return, I get that and understand the romance of the story line.

I think about (as a Tampa fan) what (over-payment) deal can be struck. TML's issues are not with the boys on the ice (other than Kessel, he's lazier than Ovi on an off night), it is the lousy contracts that management has struck with pretty average players. There is no one (nearly) on the Leaf's squad that can be dealt for that is worth their contract $$. It would take the next several (many) years' 1st round picks and a couple of A prospects to make a meaningful deal. Just not going to happen (not withstanding a MSL-like trade demand).

I think Shanahan is a quality guy and will do well in your front office but it will take some years to purge the crap that's currently on the books.

The draft system is stacked against mid-tier teams as they do not get premier picks while at the same time they do not enjoy large success. The Bolts have had the "luxury" of really sucking for a few years and were rewarded with Stammer and Hedman for those failures. A team can build around those two picks. A mid-performing team never gets that pedigree.

Your build will begin with purging bad contracts thru time and trades (probably that retain salary). Stammer and Babcock would be substantial upgrades but don't plan on either of those deals to just fall in place "because it's Toronto". It's more likely that that time and cap inflation will heal all wounds. If your management team really can't wait, I'm sure Stevie Y can come up with an offer they can't refuse.

You'd be surprised but there's been a fair contingent of Leafs fans here, and on other forums, that have been 100% on board with basically everything Leafs' management has been doing over the past 5-10 years.

Or maybe you're horrified?

 

[LeafalCrusader]