Proposal: 4 Flames Trades

[lionsDen]

You could have Kadri for free. Lindholm is going to cost more than a 1st and Ritchie. You'd be adding to that deal, not subtracting Ritche.

We’ll take the kadri, he knows our system, he’ll always be an Av well give you a first and any of our prospects besides Ritchie or gulyiev(sp?) we throw Ritchie in if there’s a significant retention (yesI know that’ll never happen). Then you can sell off lindholm to someone else

You could have Kadri for free. Lindholm is going to cost more than a 1st and Ritchie. You'd be adding to that deal, not subtracting Ritche.

Also , if Colorado would trade Ritchie my expectation is for someone more cost controlled and cheaper. He’s our best prospect and is playing really well.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Why do people always post this? First of all, it's possible that the trades suck for both sides. Second of all, it's possible that one side is ridiculously overvaluing their players.

In some cases yes it might suck for both sides. Here though neither side is ridiculously overvaluing their players. I understand if the Rangers and Leafs aren’t wanting to give up prospects/young players for rentals, but value-wise it’s close.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

What kind of offers do you think they can get? Who else would be in the bidding war? I can assume vancouver would be calling, who else do you think is after Tanev and willing to pay a massive amount for him at 50% returned?

Massive amount? A #4/5 RD pending RFA and a cap dump is a massive amount? Lol

Tanev at 50% retained gets either 1st+small add+cap dump or 2 2nds or a young player with equivalent value. Rental Orlov at 1.275 mil and Hathaway went for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and prospect and cap dump. Assuming Hathaway has the value of a 3rd+prospect, that’s 1st+2nd+5th+cap dump for Orlov. Tanev gets a bit less, but still definitely 1st. Plus more if we’re taking back a cap dump. Tanev is criminally underrated always. And imo a 1st around pick 20+ cap dump is the most Liljegren gets either.

 

[Double Dion]

We’ll take the kadri, he knows our system, he’ll always be an Av well give you a first and any of our prospects besides Ritchie or gulyiev(sp?) we throw Ritchie in if there’s a significant retention (yesI know that’ll never happen). Then you can sell off lindholm to someone else


Also , if Colorado would trade Ritchie my expectation is for someone more cost controlled and cheaper. He’s our best prospect and is playing really well.

Cheaper than Lindholm? I'm assuming you mean what he'll cost starting next year. Pretty tough to find a better C than him at that price unless it's a guy on an ELC. You'd really pay a 1st for Kadri? He's been excellent this season, but I gotta think that contract is going to start smelling at some point. I'd honestly trade him for a conditional 7th round pick.

 

[lionsDen]

Cheaper than Lindholm? I'm assuming you mean what he'll cost starting next year. Pretty tough to find a better C than him at that price unless it's a guy on an ELC. You'd really pay a 1st for Kadri? He's been excellent this season, but I gotta think that contract is going to start smelling at some point. I'd honestly trade him for a conditional 7th round pick.

You’re gonna take out first and like it!

Edit kadri for Colorado first and Ryan johanson ? The first is good for future, you get out from kadri and his boat anchor contract. Take on johanson for 1.5 seasons at 4million

Then saros for byram and whatever is my dream scenario

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Massive amount? A #4/5 RD pending RFA and a cap dump is a massive amount? Lol

Tanev at 50% retained gets either 1st+small add+cap dump or 2 2nds or a young player with equivalent value. Rental Orlov at 1.275 mil and Hathaway went for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and prospect and cap dump. Assuming Hathaway has the value of a 3rd+prospect, that’s 1st+2nd+5th+cap dump for Orlov. Tanev gets a bit less, but still definitely 1st. Plus more if we’re taking back a cap dump. Tanev is criminally underrated always. And imo a 1st around pick 20+ cap dump is the most Liljegren gets either.

I dont agree with your valuations and I think its funny how you frame Liljegren as a "4/5 rfa" as though thats bad, when Tanev right now is a #4 UFA. I wouldnt trade Liljegren straight up for Tanev, not even at 50% and not to dump less than 3 million on the cap for a couple months.

I would counter offer at Conor Timmins and a 3rd round pick, otherwise go try and convince Vancouver how desperate they are to trade for Tanev.

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

What's you fascination with Liljegren? He's on the ice for 62 shot attempts against per 60 minutes played. On top of which he gets heavy Ozone deployment, gets beat a lot and plays easy competition. This is a project and if they value him (my guess is Treliving doesn't based on his almost exact Valimaki profile) just take the 2 2nd round picks you'll get easily for Tanev. We need our bottom pairing to have some bite (Zadorov or Gudbransson types) not be Liljegren types.

Exactly my concerns about Liljegren. Any time I’ve seen him he has his spurts but he is a defensive liability and his trajectory is headed towards him being an AHL defensemen.

I dont agree with your valuations and I think its funny how you frame Liljegren as a "4/5 rfa" as though thats bad, when Tanev right now is a #4 UFA. I wouldnt trade Liljegren straight up for Tanev, not even at 50% and not to dump less than 3 million on the cap for a couple months.

I would counter offer at Conor Timmins and a 3rd round pick, otherwise go try and convince Vancouver how desperate they are to trade for Tanev.

I doubt the Flames and Leafs will do business together anyway.

 

[Djp]

Massive amount? A #4/5 RD pending RFA and a cap dump is a massive amount? Lol

Tanev at 50% retained gets either 1st+small add+cap dump or 2 2nds or a young player with equivalent value. Rental Orlov at 1.275 mil and Hathaway went for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and prospect and cap dump. Assuming Hathaway has the value of a 3rd+prospect, that’s 1st+2nd+5th+cap dump for Orlov. Tanev gets a bit less, but still definitely 1st. Plus more if we’re taking back a cap dump. Tanev is criminally underrated always. And imo a 1st around pick 20+ cap dump is the most Liljegren gets either.

Tanev at 5-% is ;lucky to get 2nd. more likely a 3rd+ secondary prospect. thats before you factor in maybe a middle man to retain more.
at deadline hell be owed about $1M in real dollars so a middle team retaining 25% or $250,000 would cost a 3rd.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

You're right. Doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making.

But everything to do with the one I made!

 

[Schemp]

Why would the Coyotes trade for a forward? Their biggest need, and by a wide margin, is D. An extended Hanifin would be a great add.

 

[Roo]

It's comical that you think you can get Tanev for a 3rd. It's comical that you know so little about the sport that you think you can "send Samsonov down to clear cap space." It clears no space as you have to replace him with another goalie and you can't bury his cap

I didn’t say I thought the Leafs could get him for a 3rd. I stated I don’t think you would get much more than a 3rd. Like, maybe a late 2nd. I may not know all the details of the cap rules, but you’ve missed the entire point (now that is quite comical).

It makes no sense whatsoever for the leafs to trade a young defender they drafted and developed, someone who has been one of their better defenders for a rental towards the end of his career. Offering 50% salary retention carries no value here as we wouldn’t look to make the move anyways.

 

[Roo]

A 3rd round pick? Surely you’ve seen previous trades for worse rentals getting more than a 3rd? Lol.

He’ll get a 2nd at least, probably a first or equivalent value with retention imo

I said ‘not much more’. Late 2nd would be at best in my opinion. I don’t see how someone offers a 1st for a defensive defender who is 34/35 and about to hit UFA. Good player, and I’d like to have him on the Leafs, but it’s unlikely you’d accept what we’d offer. If we want him badly we can sign him in the summer for no assets other than cash.

 

[Scintillating10]

1.
To DAL:
Noah Hanifin (with extension 7x7)

To CGY:
Mavrik Bourque
2024 2nd (DAL) - becomes 1st if DAL makes conference finals
Radek Faska

2.
To NYR:
Elias Lindholm (50% retained)

To CGY:
2024 1st (NYR)
Brennan Othmann
Barclay Goodrow

3.
To TOR:
Chris Tanev (50% retained)

To CGY:
Timothy Liljegren
Ilya Samsonov (cup dump)

4.
To ARI:
Andrew Mangiapane

To CGY:
2025 2nd (TOR)
2024 4th (SJ)
______________

Zary-Kadri-Coronato
Huberdeau-Bourque-Sharangovich
Othmann-Backund-Coleman
Pelletier-Goodrow-Pospisil
Faksa, Greer

Weegar-Andersson
Kylington-Liljegren
Poirier-________

Markstrom
Wolf
Samsonov

Plus an extra first and 2 seconds.

I like the Dallas and Rangers ones

 

[Double Dion]

I didn’t say I thought the Leafs could get him for a 3rd. I stated I don’t think you would get much more than a 3rd. Like, maybe a late 2nd. I may not know all the details of the cap rules, but you’ve missed the entire point (now that is quite comical).

It makes no sense whatsoever for the leafs to trade a young defender they drafted and developed, someone who has been one of their better defenders for a rental towards the end of his career. Offering 50% salary retention carries no value here as we wouldn’t look to make the move anyways.

If the young defender isn't any good it can make sense. Liljegren is statistically one of the worst defensemen in the entire league. I have no interest in him personally. If you think Treliving is going into the playoffs with a kid like that playing a top 5 role you're pretty unfamiliar with his work. He waived a better defenseman the same age in Valimaki. Liljegren gives up for 4th most shots per 60 in the entire league and doesn't bring the offense the other guys like Burns do.

Also Liljegren is their worst defender, not one of their better ones. He's worse than a very old Giordano is defensively.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Exactly my concerns about Liljegren. Any time I’ve seen him he has his spurts but he is a defensive liability and his trajectory is headed towards him being an AHL defensemen.

That's all I'll ever need to know about your ability to understand hockey.

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

That's all I'll ever need to know about your ability to understand hockey.

Oh really. Because all the professionals are perfect. Even the best GMs make mistakes on certain players. So if you literally think because I don’t agree with your love for Liljegren I’m any less than you, then you are living in your own little fantasy world where you are perfect. Or more likely you try to belittle other people to make yourself feel better. Get over yourself your not as great as you think you are.

 

[Roof Daddy]

I’d want the Oil to be in on Lindholm.

To CGY: EDM 1st 2024 + choice of Broberg/Borgault + Janmark (cap purposes)

To CHI: EDM 3rd 2025

To EDM: Lindholm 75% retained

Obviously neither Brober/Borgault are the same quality as Othmann, but there’s no albatross like Goodrow included either. Janmark expires at the end of the year and could possibly be flipped for a 6th/7th.

I’d toss McLeod back up with Drai and roll out a 3rd line of Holloway-Lindholm-Kane.

 

[Nanuuk]

No deals with Edmonton.

 

[Roo]

If the young defender isn't any good it can make sense. Liljegren is statistically one of the worst defensemen in the entire league. I have no interest in him personally. If you think Treliving is going into the playoffs with a kid like that playing a top 5 role you're pretty unfamiliar with his work. He waived a better defenseman the same age in Valimaki. Liljegren gives up for 4th most shots per 60 in the entire league and doesn't bring the offense the other guys like Burns do.

Also Liljegren is their worst defender, not one of their better ones. He's worse than a very old Giordano is defensively.

You need to watch the games to know the player. I’m not sure where you are getting the impression he is the worst defender in the team. There’s a Liljegren thread on the leafs board, maybe check it out to see what people who watch him play every game think. A bit inconsistent lately, but far from the worst. Some stats too that would contradict your statement.

https://x.com/KPapetti/status/1744020550542835823?s=20

Now bringing it back to the trade proposed, yes if the player wasn’t very good I would agree that the value in the trade proposed would be something the leafs entertain. I just don’t think he’s that guy.

 

[SirloinUB]

Id do Berggren + a pick + for Hanafin which feels comparable to your Stars-Hanafin proposal.

Realistically, Detroit would need to send a dman while I think the flames would prefer someone like Rasmussen.

 

[Double Dion]

You’re gonna take out first and like it!

Edit kadri for Colorado first and Ryan johanson ? The first is good for future, you get out from kadri and his boat anchor contract. Take on johanson for 1.5 seasons at 4million

Then saros for byram and whatever is my dream scenario

I'd do that for Kadri with no hesitation. I don't want Johansen, but it's only 1 more year so it's easily to swallow. Getting a 1st for Kadri would be too good to ever happen though. He's played excellent this season, but doesn't fit our timeline at all and I think it's highly probable that contract smells in 2-3 years.

I’d want the Oil to be in on Lindholm.

To CGY: EDM 1st 2024 + choice of Broberg/Borgault + Janmark (cap purposes)

To CHI: EDM 3rd 2025

To EDM: Lindholm 75% retained

Obviously neither Brober/Borgault are the same quality as Othmann, but there’s no albatross like Goodrow included either. Janmark expires at the end of the year and could possibly be flipped for a 6th/7th.

I’d toss McLeod back up with Drai and roll out a 3rd line of Holloway-Lindholm-Kane.

Make the cap purposes player McLeod and I'd look at it. Moving him gives you more space anyway. We'll move up Kadri and Backlund into 1 and 2. A 3C with wheels like McLeod would be a better add for us.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Rentals generally don’t get top prospects.

Lindholm likely does get a 1st but the plus is prob a B prospect not an A prospect. That just rarely happens on rentals.

 

[Double Dion]

Rentals generally don’t get top prospects.

Lindholm likely does get a 1st but the plus is prob a B prospect not an A prospect. That just rarely happens on rentals.

What did ROR go for? What did Horvat go for? We have 2 good comparable from just last season. Lindholm will go for between those 2 players price points at minimum as he makes less than either player did.

 

[YP44]

Horrible take. Liljegren has been playing over 19 minutes a night and posting really strong results in those minutes as well. He wouldn't even be close to being a waiver caliber player (that would be more along the lines of a guy like Timmins)

Comparing Liljegren to Lazar is laughable. Lazar was a 4th liner who had 1 point in 33 games at the time you guys traded for him. The two wouldn't even be close to comparables in value.

Playing 19 minutes with the leafs this year should not be the best thing a player brings to the table. Don't have a pony in the race but that is like LA claiming Durzi is a top pairing guy when they had all those injuries and he was playing top pair minutes.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

What did ROR go for? What did Horvat go for? We have 2 good comparable from just last season. Lindholm will go for between those 2 players price points at minimum as he makes less than either player did.

Tage and Raty arent A prospects.