If he learned anything from LA it is to blow it up and get more draft picks, which is how they built their cup teams and is what I am saying the Flyers should do. Getting the best defenseman in hockey at 2nd overall in the draft helps. Let's see if he can build one in Philadelphia while staying in the mediocre middle. I don't think it is possible but time will tell.
Post-Game Talk: #36| FLYERS at Coyotes | Mon., Dec. 29, 2014
- Thread starter MiamiScreamingEagles
- Start date
If he learned anything from LA it is to blow it up and get more draft picks, which is how they built their cup teams and is what I am saying the Flyers should do. Getting the best defenseman in hockey at 2nd overall in the draft helps. Let's see if he can build one in Philadelphia while staying in the mediocre middle. I don't think it is possible but time will tell.
Cootsfanclub
For Oskar!
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Why would a guy like Voracek resign in that environment? Flyers are just waiting for Vinny and Umberger to retire/get bought out and ELCs to come in.
Cause the Flyers are going to pay him a lot of money. Why would he sign in the current environment when they won't make the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years?
I agree 100% with PSU, we are in purgatory right now, and also assuming at least 1 or 2 of our d-men reach their ceilings... which isn't even guaranteed for the future.
I'm concerned by the time our defense is actually good, Giroux will be on the decline and god knows how difficult it will be the replace him down the line. Just watching Giroux putting up the points he is and not making the playoffs or being one and done really frustrates me.
I'm concerned by the time our defense is actually good, Giroux will be on the decline and god knows how difficult it will be the replace him down the line. Just watching Giroux putting up the points he is and not making the playoffs or being one and done really frustrates me.
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
Easy, they ignored hockey and watched other sports. All these fans of those two teams didn't exist when they were losing.
I know of a lot of fans who are tuning out the flyers right now and have been the last couple of years. Mediocrity is no better than tanking. At least with tanking you have excitement with a new stud player. More and more fans will be tuning out the Flyers without a big jump in performance or an exciting new player.
Curufinwe
Registered User
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Fewer fair-weather fans would be nice. Also, tanking doesn't guarantee getting a new stud player.
I'm sure their boards on here weren't empty during those years.
I'm sure their boards on here weren't empty during those years.
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
The Flyers don't need a full on rebuild though, which is what Hextall and Lombardi did when they got to Los Angeles because the Kings were in bad shape. There are some very good pieces in Philadelphia right now when you look at the roster. Giroux, Voracek, Raffl, Simmonds, Laughton, B. Schenn, Couturier and Mason are solid building blocks to build around.
The problem in Philadelphia revolves around a mediocre defense and some incredibly bad contacts that are handcuffing Hextall's ability to do something. Fact is, guys like Coburn, Grossmann and Streit's value will be highest at the deadline so that's the better time to move them. As well, it's going to be next to impossible to get out from underneath the Umberger and Lecavalier contracts without giving up some sort of sweetener and it's probably better to wait until the off season to look at a buy out of some sort.
It sucks to say this, but the best thing the Flyers do is to continue to grin and bear it. Don't bother blowing things up when there's just over half a season. Wait until the deadline, move some defenders for some decent pieces and then at the end of the season, fire the coaching staff and replace them with competent personnel.
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
I was exaggerating, but I wonder how many people were on here back then compared to now. My point is that neither of those places were hardcore hockey cities when they're teams weren't successful and although they have hardcore fans, a lot of them will just lose interest as soon as their teams aren't contenders anymore. Obviously there are fans in Philly who will do the same thing but this is definitely a bigger hockey town than either Chicago or LA.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Curufinwe
Registered User
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I agree, Philly is a much bigger hockey town. But I'm more concerned with the fans on this forum and how we would respond to a Chicago or Edmonton level of failure/tanking, i.e. not making the playoffs again until next decade.
It doesn't appeal to me unless you're guaranteed a Cup at the end of it. Which you aren't.
It doesn't appeal to me unless you're guaranteed a Cup at the end of it. Which you aren't.
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We don't need a full on rebuild though. We aren't New Jersey where we rely on 35-40 year old vets. Our core is young. It just takes patience. Which you don't have. So maybe you should spare all of us your suffering?
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Ok. Please tell me the last team from the mediocre middle to win the cup? On the other hand, just about every single cup winner since 1995 bottomed out except for Detroit in 2008 which was an elite team for over a decade. Boston did when they traded Thornton. Detroit started their dynasty taking Izerman and then trading 3rd overall pick Keith Primeau for Shanahan. Anaheim traded back to back top 10 pick prospects for Pronger. See a trend? Bad teams bouncing off the floor not rising from the middle.
But I guess the Flyers are going to do it a way no one has before?
Last edited:
daynus
Registered User
I agree with these posts.
The way the club is set up, this teams performance on ice. And the solutions should be attainable.
UOTE=BobbyClarkeFan16;94804839]The Flyers don't need a full on rebuild though, which is what Hextall and Lombardi did when they got to Los Angeles because the Kings were in bad shape. There are some very good pieces in Philadelphia right now when you look at the roster. Giroux, Voracek, Raffl, Simmonds, Laughton, B. Schenn, Couturier and Mason are solid building blocks to build around.
The problem in Philadelphia revolves around a mediocre defense and some incredibly bad contacts that are handcuffing Hextall's ability to do something. Fact is, guys like Coburn, Grossmann and Streit's value will be highest at the deadline so that's the better time to move them. As well, it's going to be next to impossible to get out from underneath the Umberger and Lecavalier contracts without giving up some sort of sweetener and it's probably better to wait until the off season to look at a buy out of some sort.
It sucks to say this, but the best thing the Flyers do is to continue to grin and bear it. Don't bother blowing things up when there's just over half a season. Wait until the deadline, move some defenders for some decent pieces and then at the end of the season, fire the coaching staff and replace them with competent personnel.[/QUOTE]
The way the club is set up, this teams performance on ice. And the solutions should be attainable.
UOTE=BobbyClarkeFan16;94804839]The Flyers don't need a full on rebuild though, which is what Hextall and Lombardi did when they got to Los Angeles because the Kings were in bad shape. There are some very good pieces in Philadelphia right now when you look at the roster. Giroux, Voracek, Raffl, Simmonds, Laughton, B. Schenn, Couturier and Mason are solid building blocks to build around.
The problem in Philadelphia revolves around a mediocre defense and some incredibly bad contacts that are handcuffing Hextall's ability to do something. Fact is, guys like Coburn, Grossmann and Streit's value will be highest at the deadline so that's the better time to move them. As well, it's going to be next to impossible to get out from underneath the Umberger and Lecavalier contracts without giving up some sort of sweetener and it's probably better to wait until the off season to look at a buy out of some sort.
It sucks to say this, but the best thing the Flyers do is to continue to grin and bear it. Don't bother blowing things up when there's just over half a season. Wait until the deadline, move some defenders for some decent pieces and then at the end of the season, fire the coaching staff and replace them with competent personnel.[/QUOTE]
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
But I can't imagine that actually happening. I'd be pretty shocked if we went a long time without making the playoffs. I don't think a team that is willing to spend to the cap, is able to attract FA's, and isn't a disaster at drafting can replicate the failure of a team like Edmonton.
About the people on this forum, I definitely think it'll start thinning out by the end of this season. People are already getting super impatient and we're not even close to the end of the year or the end of this current period of rebuilding. Especially during GDTs, people are losing their minds and losing sight of what needs to happen. We can't just trade everyone away and fire the coach after a bad game, there's a smart time to do everything that needs to be done... while angry after a loss is not that time.
Dumpster Flyers
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Looks like they're being instructed to press the neutral zone on the PK for some odd reason. Read's useless forecheck also prevented him from picking up the late man.Other than the last ten minutes (Umberger lol), that was miserable to watch.
What was Coburn doing on that third goal?
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
The Flyers would end up just like the Phillies & Sixers if they went through a terrible stretch of years.
The Eagles are the only team in this city that could withstand multiple years of being terrible. Football is king here plus there's less commitment with 8 home games a year & the tailgating scene in football is almost bigger than the game itself.
The Flyers have never reached that point in their history where they went through a brutal stretch. The closest was in the late 80's early 90's but they got Lindros about half way so he was a big shot in the arm in regards to excitement around the team even though they weren't very good.
Curufinwe
Registered User
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Boston were a .451 team in 05-06 (the season they traded Thornton) and a .463 point team in 06-07. The Flyers are currently at .472, so we are bottoming out almost as much as they did.
Boston's Cup came from a free agent goalie, a free agent dman, and getting great players (Bergeron, Krecj, Marchand, Lucic) in the 2nd and 3rd round.
Cootsfanclub
For Oskar!
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Thronton had been gone for half a decade before they won the cup. They lost in 2 semi finals and a quarter finals the years before they won. They didn't bounce from the bottom. You don't need to bounce from the bottom.
You only really need two things to win a cup:
1. #1 center (we have one and will have one capable of winning a cup for another 5-6 years)
2. #1 Defenseman (hopefully Sanheim or Morin)
Those two can take over a series, an elite goalie will have the ability to cover a few problems involving the next most important thing, depth scoring. Flyers will have Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier, Laughton and Read in their middle six. They should be fine.
Curufinwe
Registered User
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The Bruins got Kessel as the 5th overall pick by reaching the "bottom". And they traded him for two players who were barely involved in the 2011 Cup team.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....&position=S&country=&status=&viewName=summary
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....&position=S&country=&status=&viewName=summary
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
Obviously it'd be incredible for one of our D prospects to turn into a legitimate #1, but I think sometimes you guys get a bit too hung up on that.
I don't think we 100% need a #1D to win a cup, obviously it helps but if we can just get a D core that's balanced, solid defensively, and mobile it would probably be enough.
It'd be great if Morin's offense could develop to the point where he's a threat, but if he just ends up being a reliable shutdown defender who can skate and move the puck that would be incredible.
I don't think we 100% need a #1D to win a cup, obviously it helps but if we can just get a D core that's balanced, solid defensively, and mobile it would probably be enough.
It'd be great if Morin's offense could develop to the point where he's a threat, but if he just ends up being a reliable shutdown defender who can skate and move the puck that would be incredible.
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