Post-Game Talk: 3/29, Sharks 2 - Pens 3 (SO)

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Yeah, that really is ****ing sad.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

when?

Just last night there were at least two 50/50 pucks where he simply go taken into the boards and the other player sealed him off from having any chance at the puck. Those are just the clear examples I remember. It does happen.

 

[Shady Machine]

That is brutal. Generally speaking, roughly 25% seems to be where most playoff teams land. You need a good mix of youth, young vets (25-30ish), old vets (30ish to 35), with a dinosaur or 2 mixed in. We clearly don't have a good mix actually contributing.

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

And note that a significant portion of those pts and TOI from <24 on the pens is from despres, who was traded because experience.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Not surprised to see Pittsburgh at the bottom of the list.

This is why I have to laugh when people discuss the Pens being serious contenders. They are an old team. They are a soff team. Their roster is made up of some top end talent and castoffs.

The entire organization needs a flush. They need a GM with vision to come in and blow up the Scouting, Coaching and Player development.

Other than that... everything is too cool for school.

 

[cheesedanish87]

The chart is kind of misleading, the pens good young talent all play def.


Players like DP and Maatta are great young players that aren't going to show up on that chart.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I wonder... If we somehow manage to lure Babcock here, would he be able to snag some of the scouts from Detroit as well? Obviously, lots of things need to happen between now and then, but it's intriguing.

 

[Shady Machine]

The chart is kind of misleading, the pens good young talent all play def.


Players like DP and Maatta are great young players that aren't going to show up on that chart.

It doesn't matter how "misleading" it is, it's still pathetic.

 

[cheesedanish87]

It doesn't matter how "misleading" it is, it's still pathetic.

It shouldn't really surprise anyone, pens have traded a bunch of picks in the past, and the 1st rounders they have kept have been used to take def.

 

[Sam Spade]

Eh, I get the trend of the league ref young guys, but if you look at that list 9 of the top 15 aren't playing in the playoffs and the Flames are fighting for a spot. So 10 of the top 15 will/may be done playing in a week.

 

[Shady Machine]

It shouldn't really surprise anyone, pens have traded a bunch of picks in the past, and the 1st rounders they have kept have been used to take def.

No kidding cheese danish, THAT's the point. We know our young forward prospect pool sucks and this is pretty damning evidence compared to the rest of the league. Just because it's not surprising, doesn't mean we should write it off.

 

[FDBluth]

Sid's playing very well again. Got some of that swag back. You could just tell he was going to score on that shootout attempt.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Eh, I get the trend of the league ref young guys, but if you look at that list 9 of the top 15 aren't playing in the playoffs and the Flames are fighting for a spot. So 10 of the top 15 will/may be done playing in a week.

I think the point is that you need a good mix of both youth and experience. You should never have only one or the other.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I think the point is that you need a good mix of both youth and experience. You should never have only one or the other.

Right. But if you also notice all of the cup winning teams are in the lower ranks and some of them are only now getting infused with youth due to retirement, trades and UFA's walking.


Cup winning teams are not even 25% youth infused teams. 3/4 players tops throughout the entire 23 man roster.

Experience is not a dead theme in the NHL. Some just have more and can support youth added. The Pens didn't have enough due to replacing rather than adding it in both areas of experience and youth. That's where injuries hurt on both fronts.

Balance can only happen if the whole can stay intact.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not surprised to see Pittsburgh at the bottom of the list.

Out of the top ten teams on that list only half are in playoff contention. Two of the other teams have been on crazy long losing streaks also. Out of the top ten you also do not have a single team that has made it out of the second round of the playoffs in the last five years outside of Tampa in 2011. Coincidentally they finished 10th and 14th in the Eastern Conference after that.

Out of the bottom ten you have three of the last four teams that made it to the Stanley Cup Finals. Out of the bottom ten, eight of the teams are still in playoff contention. If you take it even farther, in the past five years you have the three last cup winners and every single team that has been in the Finals outside of Boston. You even have every single team that has made it to a conference final outside of Boston, Tampa, and Arizona. Notice how Tampa and Arizona have floundered after their conference finals appearances both missing the playoffs two years and a row and generally finishing at the very bottom of the league.

I wonder why Boston isn't there? Oh, because they lost Phil Kessel and got three first round draft picks.

So, this chart tells us that teams that actually win championships or even make it to the dance aren't relying on young talent?

Or does it say that teams that actually win championships and make it to the dance are often sacrificing young talent to get there?

 

[Waffle Fries]

7/10 is more than half last time I checked.

 

[Gurglesons]

7/10 is more than half last time I checked.

Anahiem, Isles, Nashville, Wild, Lightning, and maybe the Flames. Although, I think the Kings will catch them.

I also think the East is pretty much set.

Way to ignore the fact that nobody who has made it past the second round of the playoffs outside of Tampa is in the past 5 years is in the top ten of that list though. Not to mention that was four years ago and they obviously had two low finishes netting them draft picks.

Chicago and LA are consistently brought up as having better youth movements than the Pens. Welp, they are 28 and 25 on that list.

Being a continuous contender for the Stanley Cup hurts your chances at having youth contribute in your line-up. That is basically what I see from that list.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

The ranks aren't what you should look at, the numbers are.

Pens, Chicago, and LA are in the bottom 6, that is true. Yet LA has significantly more youth contribution and Chicago is nearly double that of the Pens. There is something to be said for being dead last by a significant margin.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Anahiem, Isles, Nashville, Wild, Lightning, and maybe the Flames. Although, I think the Kings will catch them.

I also think the East is pretty much set.

Way to ignore the fact that nobody who has made it past the second round of the playoffs outside of Tampa is in the past 5 years is in the top ten of that list though. Not to mention that was four years ago and they obviously had two low finishes netting them draft picks.

Chicago and LA are consistently brought up as having better youth movements than the Pens. Welp, they are 28 and 25 on that list.

Being a continuous contender for the Stanley Cup hurts your chances at having youth contribute in your line-up. That is basically what I see from that list.

Playoff contention includes teams in the running for the playoffs. 7 of the top 10 are in the running.

Chicago and LA are brought up a having better youth movements than the Pens because they do have better youth movements than the Pens. Every single team in the league does. That's what you should take from that list.

I'm not sure what past years have to do with this. It's talking about this season only.

Edit:

And when you click on the actual article you get this really nifty paragraph

1. Pittsburgh. Sid is a kid no longer. And the Penguins remaining in a win-now mode for years has really hurt their ability to incorporate youth in a significant way. With Sidney Crosby approaching 28 and Evgeni Malkin already there, Pittsburgh’s core is moving out of its prime as the NHL continues to get younger and younger. The highest-scoring Penguin 24 and under this season has been defenceman Simon Despres (17 points) – and they already unloaded him to Anaheim. Olli Maatta’s injury issues have hurt the Pens’ ranking, but even with him healthy, they’d remain bottom three. This is a growing concern.

Haha.

 

[Gurglesons]

Playoff contention includes teams in the running for the playoffs. 7 of the top 10 are in the running.

Ottawa and the Cats are fringe playoff teams that have made great use of the loser point.

What I am saying from this list is that it is obvious that teams that have had bad years in the last five years statistically in the regular season are going to be playing younger players. When your team is consistently losing and missing the playoffs or barely scrapping by to get into it you are going to get rewarded with deeper prospect pools.

On top of the Penguins making horrible decisions in terms of youth, they've haven't drafted above 20 in the first round outside of the Staal trade in almost ten years.

How do you get a young players when you are drafting in an area where you are basically have a 50/50 shot at getting a NHLer?

The list is pointless. With the fact that since 09 we've only been knocked out in the first round once is going to mess with our development.

Are we predestined to be a Calgary Flames in five years is the question?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Ottawa and the Cats are fringe playoff teams that have made great use of the loser point.

What I am saying from this list is that it is obvious that teams that have had bad years in the last five years statistically in the regular season are going to be playing younger players. When your team is consistently losing and missing the playoffs or barely scrapping by to get into it you are going to get rewarded with deeper prospect pools.

On top of the Penguins making horrible decisions in terms of youth, they've haven't drafted above 20 in the first round outside of the Staal trade in almost ten years.

How do you get a young players when you are drafting in an area where you are basically have a 50/50 shot at getting a NHLer?

The list is pointless. With the fact that since 09 we've only been knocked out in the first round once is going to mess with our development.

Are we predestined to be a Calgary Flames in five years is the question?

The bolded is directly related to bad scouting/development, though. Sure, you might not expect a bunch of franchise guys taken where the Pens are picking, but they've done a pretty lousy job at identifying forwards rated/picked around their draft slot. Bennett's year alone saw guys like Charlie Coyle, Brock Nelson, and Tyler Toffoli taken within 10 to 15 picks after Bennett.

 

[Shady Machine]

How do you get a young players when you are drafting in an area where you are basically have a 50/50 shot at getting a NHLer?

You stop trading all your 2nd-5th round picks on half ass band-aids every year, trade expiring non impact vets to acquire more picks, and draft non NCAA guys over 5'8.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Ottawa and the Cats are fringe playoff teams that have made great use of the loser point.

Oh I forgot about Florida. My 7 were Tampa, Isles, Ottawa, Anaheim, Nashville, Minny, and Calgary. But now that you point out the Panthers, I guess 8 of the 10 are in playoff contention.

What I am saying from this list is that it is obvious that teams that have had bad years in the last five years statistically in the regular season are going to be playing younger players. When your team is consistently losing and missing the playoffs or barely scrapping by to get into it you are going to get rewarded with deeper prospect pools.

On top of the Penguins making horrible decisions in terms of youth, they've haven't drafted above 20 in the first round outside of the Staal trade in almost ten years.

How do you get a young players when you are drafting in an area where you are basically have a 50/50 shot at getting a NHLer?

The list is pointless. With the fact that since 09 we've only been knocked out in the first round once is going to mess with our development.

Are we predestined to be a Calgary Flames in five years is the question?

The list isn't pointless, you just don't like what it says. As SHOOTANDSCORE pointed out, not only are we last, but we aren't even close to moving out of that position. Teams that have had far more success than us in the lat five years are managing to get 2 or 3 times the production we are.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Yeah, we're such stellar playoff performers that our drafting/development are ****! What a cop out.

No, our drafting/development of NHL players is ****, especially at forward, because we're **** at drafting and developing young players. We have zero patience with them unless they play insanely well right off the bat, and we continue to fill up the roster with aging vets and reclamation projects instead of allowing our prospects to develop and grow at the NHL level, and play through the growing pains associated with that.

That list isn't gospel, but it's pretty damning evidence that is supported once you look into this organization's utilization of young players, and it's track record drafting/developing them.

Another reason I want to get Babcock at any cost this summer. Maybe he'll be able to coax some of the scouts over from Detroit.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I honestly do not believe it was as much the lack of talent the past half decade as idiotic coaching that held the Pens back from the success that they should have had. I am not saying cups, a lot has to go right for even a great team to run that guantlet, but they should have achieved a lot more. And except for the year when they lost their top stars, they should have done more and that is almost entirely on Disco. They had the horses to legitimately win it all pretty much each year.