sipowicz
The thrill is gone
- Mar 16, 2011
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Post-Game Talk: 3-2 Blues
- Thread starter jetsforever
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Did I suddenly end up on a Leaf forum? Trade away two 22 year-old prospects, because they are struggling with 'sophomore slumps'? Last winter, they were 21 year old future leaders, this year they receive increased duties and expectations, and struggle, so after 19 games, they are AHL garbage, and should be moved. "Peaked" at 21? All I can say is wow!
CaptainChef
Registered User
Yes, well lets toss that discussion to where it belongs because the stats don't bear it out. Hellebuyck has indeed "played great at every level"; Hutch has been average to below average at every level.
Comparing save %:
Hellebuyck -- career NCAA (.946), WC (.948) & AHL (.921) - the latter on real crappy teams
Hutch -- OHL (.915), ECHL (.920), AHL (.917), NHL (.916)
Neither Pavelec or Hutch are playing good enough for us to even think we could make the play-offs , yes we are not playing a good defensive game but neither goalie is a top 20 goalie . We have watched Pavelec first hand for 5 years now ... he isn't good enough for this team to be successful ! Hutch we haven't seen enough of just yet to make the same conclusion ... yet ! If Helly was 18 or 19 , yes it would be too soon to call him up but he's not he's 23 and after watching the World Championship this guy is ready to play now . The thing that bugs me the most about Pavelec and Hutch they always let a weak goal at some point in a close game or a goal at a terrible time in a game . Last night the Jets are down 2-0 and fight to tie the game up BUT Hutch lets a goal in right after and takes all the momentum away ... it happens waaay too much .
Just Ducky
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- Jan 8, 2012
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He might not be lighting the lamp but no one on this team of late has been. He has been better with the puck this year, his shot is improved, and he does a decent job on his defensive responsibilities but definitely room to improve here.
Now- he is certainly not a comparable to Stamkos like Adam Oates proclaimed on HNIC - now that was bizarre but I see his game continuing to improve year over year.
Perhaps my ceiling for him is lower than yours
Hellebuyck only faced a total of 1545 shots in his college career. That sample is a bit small. And the WC sample is way too small to base any conclusions on. No question he's dominated though. His AHL numbers are good, but he's still within spitting distance of Hutch - especially if you consider Hutch's AHL playoff numbers. I'm not sure where Hutch has played below average in your list of SV% there...
I'm glad someone else brought up the WC numbers as being a suspect source...
He may be the saviour. I just don't see it right now with the team the way it is.
rumrokh
THORBS
- Mar 10, 2006
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Blues fan. Something I noticed was that the Jets' forecheck seemed designed to prevent the Blues from making d-to-d passes. Especially later in the game, the forechecker would swoop pretty low in the zone and that allowed the Blues to move the puck up ice fairly easily. Is this their usual forechecking method, or something they seemed to have planned specifically for the Blues?
Along a similar line, I noticed they were employing a 1-3-1 on the powerplay and the Blues had no trouble with it, but they kept doing the exact same thing all game. The couple of times the play was broken and Jets' players got deeper and it turned into more of an umbrella, they looked more dangerous.
I know some key guys on the Jets are young and you've had some weak goaltending; but stuff like that forecheck, powerplay, and discipline/penalty issues makes me wonder if it's a coaching problem.
Along a similar line, I noticed they were employing a 1-3-1 on the powerplay and the Blues had no trouble with it, but they kept doing the exact same thing all game. The couple of times the play was broken and Jets' players got deeper and it turned into more of an umbrella, they looked more dangerous.
I know some key guys on the Jets are young and you've had some weak goaltending; but stuff like that forecheck, powerplay, and discipline/penalty issues makes me wonder if it's a coaching problem.
How? All seats are sold on long term contracts and if you think people are going to give up their seats you are sadly mistaken.
CaptainChef
Registered User
Doesn't matter how you slice it, Hutch's .916 junior & minor pro numbers pale in comparison to Hellebuyck's .930+. And yes, that % for Hellebuyck exceeds 5400 shots so I'd say that's a healthy sample size to base it on.
CaptainChef
Registered User
Yep - I think a few folks here are wondering about the same issues. When you've had discipline issues and the most penalized team in the league for the last couple years & very little changes, it has to eventually go back to the coaches.
Well you're lumping together NAHL with NCAA and AHL...
Who knows what happens in the NAHL - you can probably just ignore that. It's below USHL...so like MJHL quality? I really have no idea. Anyway, you probably shouldn't be basing much off that.
And the NCAA is lower scoring than the OHL, isn't it? I'm not sure what the DivI average is but there are 20 guys with .919 or better SV% on this page (is this last year? Active career totals?) http://www.ncaa.com/stats/icehockey-men/d1/current/individual/172
Look at Hutch's last year in the OHL - there are 4 guys who'd make that NCAA list. http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stats/show/type/top_goalies/ls_season/35/subtype/1
Oh and there's Hutch at 5th in the league...5th out of 20 or so isn't too shabby. Better than "at or below average" I'd say.
Ducky10
Searching for Mark Scheifele
- Nov 14, 2014
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nobody important
the pessimist returns
Sitting in the best seats in the house (loge), I would love to know who paid for all those empty loge seats I've been seeing and decided it just wasn't worth their time to show up. You do know about the donate to charity option, right? Somebody, somewhere would love that game experience, but I guess you're just too busy with your foie gras and Sauternes tastings to worry about **** like that.
Sigh, I think I've gotten myself into one of my angry modes tonight.
winnipegger
Registered User
- Dec 17, 2013
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For some reason this is a popular motif to keep Helle in the AHL; on a team that is notably worse at defence than the Jets are. He's still posting a .926 save%, something our goalies could only dream of doing.
This Vancouver game is the biggest game of the year boys, win this and you get good feelings going. Lose and you are 2 games under .500 and a long climb back.
truck
Registered User
SensibleGuy
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- Nov 26, 2011
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jeez. Look, performing well at one level is no assurance that will carry over to the next. Sometimes players pan out and sometimes they don't. Pavelec was sucking like a Hoover back then and many of us felt a change would be good and Hutch was worth a try. He hasn't exactly blown the lid off. That doesn't mean Helly might not do so...but of course there's no way to know without trying.
winnipegger
Registered User
- Dec 17, 2013
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Not to derail the thread on goaltending....but....
On a team that went 50-20-0 to clean up their division. Hellbuyck is posting great numbers on a terrible team, a sign that a goalie might be worth something?
On a team that went 50-20-0 to clean up their division. Hellbuyck is posting great numbers on a terrible team, a sign that a goalie might be worth something?
- Mar 10, 2010
- 34,904
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One of the challenges is the charity option window closes too early (at least it use to). People run into challenges last minute and run out of options to gift the seats and you contact TNSE and they tell you that you have to give those tickets away with substantial lead time (WTF????). Like they can't find a few dozen people that would take them last minute? anyways it has happened to me where illness with children last minute can kill plans but the charity option is closed.
truck
Registered User
The quality of team generally doesn't mean much. Goalies post great numbers on bad teams with regularity.
sipowicz
The thrill is gone
- Mar 16, 2011
- 31,750
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I agree, an undisciplined team is always on the coaches. The BS Mo spewed about the penalties last season was a cop out and quite frankly send th wrong message to the team, never ever heard a coach at any level come up with BS like that. Mo is a career .500 coach for a reason, starts well with teams, turns them around and then they crash, there is a pattern.
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