Post-Game Talk: 3-2 Blues

[Derfel*]

As I think about this further, I'm seeing parallells with the Minnesota Wild last season when their goalies were Backstrom and Kuemper. Look how things turned around when they acquired Dubnyk. The entire team looked different. I seem to recall they struggled to score pre-Dubnyk as well. Confidence.

In my armchair-GM/Coach opinion, the shakeup that would have the most impact on this team would be bringing in an upgrade at goal be it Hellebuyck or via trade (I don't really follow other teams so I don't know who might fit the bill though).

That's actually a good example (Minnesota) - but I'm still not convinced that bringing up Hellebuyck is the "silver bullet" everyone is making it out to be.

A trade package for a couple of good 2nd-liners where we give up some bottom liners and picks is best.

 

[KCjetsfan]

what's the point of bringing up hellebuyck now? i won't say the goaltending's been good, because for the most part it hasn't. but the whole team has had a train wreck feel for most of the year. That's not how you bring in a potential young star goalie, imo.

 

[Jets 31]

Quick thoughts...

Little and Wheeler were great. Our two leaders.

Perreault drives me crazy. Needs more control in his game.

Scheifele needs to play with more intensity.

Ehlers started slowly, but came on strong.

Ladd was invisible again.

Lowry looks a step behind still.

Copp is getting better. He's moved ahead of Lowry on my depth chart. I think he should be with Burmi on the PK.

Burmi with a very good game... Lots of jam and pace in his game.

Stafford a bit sluggish, but better than he's been.

Thorbs and Peluso fine, if we're honest.

Liked Trouba. He looked more like his first two seasons.

Buff was good. Pardy fine.

Not one of Enstrom's better games. Myers was good moving forward but gets on the wrong side of his man on D too often.

Hutch okay, but a top performance might have won that game.

Call on Lowry was atrocious, all things considered.

Hate our special teams. They need to change up the PP. The PK was a bit more aggressive. Pardy is decent on the PK.

I agree with all of this , i'll say it again Ehlers should be on the 1st line with Little and Wheeler , Stafford is a offence first player and getting paid for that not a 3rd line checker , no wonder he's not producing ! And he is playing with Lowry who i'm sorry to say has to go immediately to the 4th line , hell he should go to the Moose the way he's playing . Anyway 2nd linewould be Sheif with Ladd and Stafford and the 3rd line would be Burmi with Petan and Perry . Call up and start Helly right now , And sign Buff to whatever he wants immediately he is our best D and that isn't saying alot right now . 4th line i don't care lets get 3 lines working and worry about the 4th after that .

 

[ERYX]

That's actually a good example (Minnesota) - but I'm still not convinced that bringing up Hellebuyck is the "silver bullet" everyone is making it out to be.

A trade package for a couple of good 2nd-liners where we give up some bottom liners and picks is best.

I don't know that Hellebuyck is a silver bullet, either, but he has done very well at all levels he's played. So I think it's a viable option but others more knowledgeable than I would know if this is the environment you want to introduce him to ... yet it has worked with other teams like Hammond on Ottawa last year.

I don't know about giving up picks, but I am thinking some kind of trade could be good for shaking things up. I really like Ladd but if we're not going to re-up him then I'd be inclined to throw him in on a hypothetical deal looking for some younger 2nd-line talent.

 

[Derfel*]

I don't know that Hellebuyck is a silver bullet, either, but he has done very well at all levels he's played. So I think it's a viable option but others more knowledgeable than I would know if this is the environment you want to introduce him to ... yet it has worked with other teams like Hammond on Ottawa last year.

Funny - I heard the exact same line a couple of seasons ago... regarding Hutchinson. Not to say Hutch wasn't a breath of fresh air in his first few starts, but we have seen that good rookie stints don't always last very long.

I don't know about giving up picks, but I am thinking some kind of trade could be good for shaking things up. I really like Ladd but if we're not going to re-up him then I'd be inclined to throw him in on a hypothetical deal looking for some younger 2nd-line talent.

Maybe it's just sentimental me - but I really hope we do sign Ladd for a couple more years. I'd deal Lowry or Trouba (or Stuart!) before Ladd, but I doubt we'd get much for any of those options.

I don't think we need a superstar in a trade - someone like Hayes or Krug from Boston might give us a little more pep in offense, and the team might be willing to deal. I also had a vision of Kadri coming here, for some reason...

 

[Whileee]

I don't know that Hellebuyck is a silver bullet, either, but he has done very well at all levels he's played. So I think it's a viable option but others more knowledgeable than I would know if this is the environment you want to introduce him to ... yet it has worked with other teams like Hammond on Ottawa last year.

I don't know about giving up picks, but I am thinking some kind of trade could be good for shaking things up. I really like Ladd but if we're not going to re-up him then I'd be inclined to throw him in on a hypothetical deal looking for some younger 2nd-line talent.

I would like to see Hellebuyck with the Jets for two reasons. First, I think he'd be as good or better (and more consistent) than one of the Pavs/Hutch duo. Second, I'm in favour of a more rapid youth movement, even if it means some short-term pain. I want the players who are likely to be core for the Jets in the next few years to start learning to play the NHL game so they'll be ready to compete sooner.

Hellebuyck turns 23 this year, and already has almost 70 games in the AHL under his belt (with a ton of shots). I think he's ready to split goaltending duties at the NHL level.

 

[Whileee]

Funny - I heard the exact same line a couple of seasons ago... regarding Hutchinson. Not to say Hutch wasn't a breath of fresh air in his first few starts, but we have seen that good rookie stints don't always last very long.

Maybe it's just sentimental me - but I really hope we do sign Ladd for a couple more years. I'd deal Lowry or Trouba (or Stuart!) before Ladd, but I doubt we'd get much for any of those options.

I don't think we need a superstar in a trade - someone like Hayes or Krug from Boston might give us a little more pep in offense, and the team might be willing to deal. I also had a vision of Kadri coming here, for some reason...

Wow, to this post.

First, there's not any chance that Ladd will re-sign for a couple more years. He's likely looking for 7 or 8 years, and would only settle for 6 if the salary was painfully high.

There is not a chance that I would trade Trouba before Ladd, and probably not Lowry (even though he's off to a slow start). They are part of the future.

I would trade Stuart in a heartbeat, for almost any return.

The Jets need solid D before they need a bit more pep in the offense. Ehlers and Petan will grow into offensive roles, and the Jets have Connor and Roslovic (and Armia) in the pipeline. They also have Morrissey, who should be able to bring some offense from the D (though he's struggled to show it this season so far).

 

[Halloween Jack]

Funny - I heard the exact same line a couple of seasons ago... regarding Hutchinson. Not to say Hutch wasn't a breath of fresh air in his first few starts, but we have seen that good rookie stints don't always last very long.



Maybe it's just sentimental me - but I really hope we do sign Ladd for a couple more years. I'd deal Lowry or Trouba (or Stuart!) before Ladd, but I doubt we'd get much for any of those options.

I don't think we need a superstar in a trade - someone like Hayes or Krug from Boston might give us a little more pep in offense, and the team might be willing to deal. I also had a vision of Kadri coming here, for some reason...

The NHL isn't a game of 31, where turnover is critical to strengthening your hand, and you throw away cards that you dont want anymore in hopes that someone else throws away the ace you're looking for.

 

[Derfel*]

Wow, to this post.

First, there's not any chance that Ladd will re-sign for a couple more years. He's likely looking for 7 or 8 years, and would only settle for 6 if the salary was painfully high.

There is not a chance that I would trade Trouba before Ladd, and probably not Lowry (even though he's off to a slow start). They are part of the future.

I would trade Stuart in a heartbeat, for almost any return.

The Jets need solid D before they need a bit more pep in the offense. Ehlers and Petan will grow into offensive roles, and the Jets have Connor and Roslovic (and Armia) in the pipeline. They also have Morrissey, who should be able to bring some offense from the D (though he's struggled to show it this season so far).

He may be looking for 7 or 8 years... but I would think he will settle on 4 years for the right money. I should have been clearer - I hope we hold onto Ladd for a couple of more years, not just sign him for that long.

I feel like Lowry peaked last year, and we might get good value for him now though still. I hope I'm wrong. I sure liked his play last year. He's gone from the right player to the "Wright" player, if you know what I mean...

If we're talking about development before trades, then we have to be patient and not panic if we don't make the playoffs this year. I'm okay with that. But if we want a post-season, then people have to be moved if they continue playing the way they have been so far this year.

In short - I'm personally okay waiting this team out as a package. But if people want change, I'd say trade over bringing Helle up.

 

[Gm0ney]

I don't know that Hellebuyck is a silver bullet, either, but he has done very well at all levels he's played. So I think it's a viable option but others more knowledgeable than I would know if this is the environment you want to introduce him to ... yet it has worked with other teams like Hammond on Ottawa last year.

I don't know about giving up picks, but I am thinking some kind of trade could be good for shaking things up. I really like Ladd but if we're not going to re-up him then I'd be inclined to throw him in on a hypothetical deal looking for some younger 2nd-line talent.

I dunno...this organization hasn't been big on rolling the dice with goalies. I don't know what Pavelec would have to do to get waived...post a .000 SV% for 15 starts? Hutchinson, though - another bad game or two out of him and I think the Jets might be sorely tempted to bring up Hellebuyck to ride the pine while Pavelec claws his way back to .907.

 

[tbcwpg]

what's the point of bringing up hellebuyck now? i won't say the goaltending's been good, because for the most part it hasn't. but the whole team has had a train wreck feel for most of the year. That's not how you bring in a potential young star goalie, imo.

Yesterday seemed like one of those games that was winnable if the goalie made a save. Not saying that they were bad goals necessarily, you could nitpick but it wasn't a fantastic game. That said, if you have under 20 shots you're not going to win most nights. A better loss, but still a loss.

I don't think bringing up Hellebuyck is the answer right now either.

 

[ERYX]

Funny - I heard the exact same line a couple of seasons ago... regarding Hutchinson. Not to say Hutch wasn't a breath of fresh air in his first few starts, but we have seen that good rookie stints don't always last very long.

This is true, and that is why I agree with you that despite a lot of promise I'm not as certain as some that Helle is the answer. He could be though. Certainly some goalies do pan out, but it does seem that they are "voodoo" and it's impossible to know.

Maybe it's just sentimental me - but I really hope we do sign Ladd for a couple more years. I'd deal Lowry or Trouba (or Stuart!) before Ladd, but I doubt we'd get much for any of those options.

Well, as I said I really like Ladd and I would like to see him signed. But if they're not going to do it, then I say deal him now rather than wait for the trade deadline (or let him walk for nothing). Trading the captain would be a huge shakeup and with Wheeler's play and leadership of late I'd have no problems giving him the C.

Don't think we'd get much for Lowry with how he's been playing lately. I'd like to see a little more patience given to these guys, they could be the future of our team. Not sure who else we could trade though.

I don't think we need a superstar in a trade - someone like Hayes or Krug from Boston might give us a little more pep in offense, and the team might be willing to deal. I also had a vision of Kadri coming here, for some reason...

I doubt Toronto parts with Kadri for anything other than an overpayment so not worth it, IMO. I agree we don't need a superstar. I don't think we could get one without gutting our team anyway.

 

[Gm0ney]

He may be looking for 7 or 8 years... but I would think he will settle on 4 years for the right money. I should have been clearer - I hope we hold onto Ladd for a couple of more years, not just sign him for that long.

I feel like Lowry peaked last year, and we might get good value for him now though still. I hope I'm wrong. I sure liked his play last year. He's gone from the right player to the "Wright" player, if you know what I mean...

If we're talking about development before trades, then we have to be patient and not panic if we don't make the playoffs this year. I'm okay with that. But if we want a post-season, then people have to be moved if they continue playing the way they have been so far this year.

In short - I'm personally okay waiting this team out as a package. But if people want change, I'd say trade over bringing Helle up.

I'm as frustrated with Lowry's game this year as the next guy, but it's a bit early to be calling his peak. Chemistry with his linemates, much tougher assignments...I'm willing to give him some time to figure it out. Though it would be nice to see some steps in the right direction soon.

Ladd at 4 x $8M okay with you? I dunno...

 

[Derfel*]

I'm as frustrated with Lowry's game this year as the next guy, but it's a bit early to be calling his peak. Chemistry with his linemates, much tougher assignments...I'm willing to give him some time to figure it out. Though it would be nice to see some steps in the right direction soon.

Ladd at 4 x $8M okay with you? I dunno...

4 x $8million? Nope. 4 x $5million is fine. 3 x $5.25million is better.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

4 x $8million? Nope. 4 x $5million is fine. 3 x $5.25million is better.

He'll never sign at any of those numbers. We should be prepared to trade him sometime between now and the TD if that's what we think the offers are / are going to be.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I don't have too much to add that hasn't been said, except that I think this team has lots of talent but for whatever reason, they aren't playing to their potential and it drives me crazy. They are starting games and continuing for 20 or 40 minutes like the other team doesn't exist.

They don't seem to anticpate that they are going to forechecked or that they are going to lose possession if they keep dumping to the corners and don't skate and battle.

We're getting penalties and icings because we don't take the extra step to take the puck or the man, so instead we stop moving our feet and hook or grab.

Watch the last 5 minutes of a close game where we're down. We're pretty damn dangerous with the same players.

I simply think there are a lot of coasters not putting in the 100% effort required in the best division of the best league. Simple as that.

Wheeler, Little, Ehlers are the only ones that are working hard enough to look dangerous all game. IMO, three players, that's it.

Burmi, Thorbs, Petan and Peluso also look like they are giving 100% but without any results. They are a different category, but still giving whatever they have to give.

It's such a cliche, but you really do have to give 100% for 60 minutes in this league and anyone who told them differently is wrong. Watch any of the teams that we just lost to, and they are working and skating HARD all game.

I don't know why our work ethic sucks so bad. That's the end of my rant YMMV.

 

[castle]

what's the point of bringing up hellebuyck now? i won't say the goaltending's been good, because for the most part it hasn't. but the whole team has had a train wreck feel for most of the year. That's not how you bring in a potential young star goalie, imo.

uh... it's not like he's got the best team in front of him now in the Moose. Wouldn't be much of a change for him. That Luongo guy turned out not bad, and in fact was considered a much better than average goalie for quite a while.

 

[SensibleGuy]

4 x $8million? Nope. 4 x $5million is fine. 3 x $5.25million is better.

LOL, care to join us in the real world?

And nobody said Hutch was "the answer." We said he was probably at least as good as Pav (still probably true) and was worth a shot because we needed better goaltending...and I would say the same about Helly.

 

[Derfel*]

LOL, care to join us in the real world?

Hey - a man can dream, can't he?

I'm talking current value, not what he's asking for.

 

[Bob E]

This is a scary point of view to me. There were long stretches of the game where the Jets didn't even touch the puck, forget generate any chances. Goaltending was better, and sure they were better than Nashville, but still relatively awful.

If they play ten in a row like this regardless of talent level I don't know how Maurice keeps his job. They have to be so far below expectations. If they have any hope of a playoff spot a major shakeup is the only path.

Disagree. They played a Blues team very even imo. Did they need to generate more shots, sure. It wasn't perfect. But it wasnt a **** show either. Stretches without the puck may have been 5v4, at 5v5, they played them quite even.

Calling for PoMo's head is very premature, imo. Over the next few years, young players will join the roster. It's not reasonable to expect an NHL rookie to contribute in year 1. But in year 3 they likely will contribute more than veterans they are replacing. At least that's the plan.

 

[Just Ducky]

I don't have too much to add that hasn't been said, except that I think this team has lots of talent but for whatever reason, they aren't playing to their potential and it drives me crazy. They are starting games and continuing for 20 or 40 minutes like the other team doesn't exist.

They don't seem to anticpate that they are going to forechecked or that they are going to lose possession if they keep dumping to the corners and don't skate and battle.

We're getting penalties and icings because we don't take the extra step to take the puck or the man, so instead we stop moving our feet and hook or grab.

Watch the last 5 minutes of a close game where we're down. We're pretty damn dangerous with the same players.

I simply think there are a lot of coasters not putting in the 100% effort required in the best division of the best league. Simple as that.

Wheeler, Little, Ehlers are the only ones that are working hard enough to look dangerous all game. IMO, three players, that's it.

Burmi, Thorbs, Petan and Peluso also look like they are giving 100% but without any results. They are a different category, but still giving whatever they have to give.

It's such a cliche, but you really do have to give 100% for 60 minutes in this league and anyone who told them differently is wrong. Watch any of the teams that we just lost to, and they are working and skating HARD all game.

I don't know why our work ethic sucks so bad. That's the end of my rant YMMV.

I like this post- it sums up pretty much what I have seen as well. I would add Sheif to the list of guys who are showing up with their game.

This was a tough road trip- understated- but it is early in the season and if I can grasp at anything good from it - this should show our GM what we clearly lack- depth, goaltending, and mental toughness.

Up to him how he wants to deal with this....

 

[CaptainChef]

Funny - I heard the exact same line a couple of seasons ago... regarding Hutchinson. Not to say Hutch wasn't a breath of fresh air in his first few starts, but we have seen that good rookie stints don't always last very long.



...

I see that Whilee responded to the rest of your post but LOL if you're comparing any part of Hutch's resume to Hellebuyck's. Sure Hutch looked awful good for a while but Boston gave up on him for a reason & he came out of nowhere with no credentials to speak of.

Helle on the other hand was phenomenal in the NCAA (best save % over his career besting guys like Miller & Dryden). He has a superb season in the AHL despite playing on a terrible team. And, at the worlds last year he single-handedly willed the American team to a bronze posting a .948 save %.

So any comparisons of Hutch to Helle are superficial at best. No guarantee that Helle will necessarily be a lot better than Hutch as a professional, but results to date suggest there is no comparison.

 

[Derfel*]

I see that Whilee responded to the rest of your post but LOL if you're comparing any part of Hutch's resume to Hellebuyck's. Sure Hutch looked awful good for a while but Boston gave up on him for a reason & he came out of nowhere with no credentials to speak of.

I'm not comparing the two, primarily - I'm comparing the justification for bringing them up. Literally I read the words "played great at every level" when people were begging for Hutch to come up from the AHL two seasons ago.

 

[Gm0ney]

I see that Whilee responded to the rest of your post but LOL if you're comparing any part of Hutch's resume to Hellebuyck's. Sure Hutch looked awful good for a while but Boston gave up on him for a reason & he came out of nowhere with no credentials to speak of.

Helle on the other hand was phenomenal in the NCAA (best save % over his career besting guys like Miller & Dryden). He has a superb season in the AHL despite playing on a terrible team. And, at the worlds last year he single-handedly willed the American team to a bronze posting a .948 save %.

So any comparisons of Hutch to Helle are superficial at best. No guarantee that Helle will necessarily be a lot better than Hutch as a professional, but results to date suggest there is no comparison.

Hutchinson has faced almost 4000 shots in the A (including playoffs). That's a solid sample. His career SV% is .921.

As of today, Hellebuyck's faced 2106 shots in the AHL and has a SV% of .922.

So yeah, no comparison...

 

[Gm0ney]

I'm not comparing the two, primarily - I'm comparing the justification for bringing them up. Literally I read the words "played great at every level" when people were begging for Hutch to come up from the AHL two seasons ago.

Pavelec, btw, faced 3500 shots in the AHL (including playoffs) and has a career SV% of .913 there. But we already know he's garbage...