2nd best player in the league!

[Sidney the Kidney]

You’re not fooling anyone with your anti-Toronto bias rhetoric.

Matthews is way better than Draisaitl. Drai just rides the coat tails of McDavid. Stop trying to say he is better than the best goal scorer in the world.

Re: bold

While I agree that his production benefits from McDavid, I don't think you can say he's a passenger or rides his coattails when he literally finished with more points than McDavid last year.

If you can outscore your linemate, you're no longer a product of that person or riding his coattails.

 

[freecheese]

It’s really Barkov

 

[CatchyTune]

Unbiased Leaf fan at their best.

The guy who has an 8th place in lady Byng voting (lol) and 10th in hart voting in the past 2 years is better than the 2 players who swept all major awards those 2 years. And the only player you'd consider putting ahead of him is the one who also hasn't won any awards those two years.

I guess if you're a Toronto Maple Leaf fan - you gotta find a way to glorify 'not winning'.

if youre using awards to judge players ability you might wanna rethink your methods

 

[CatchyTune]

I don't really know about their deployment - but before March 15th Zibanejad playing at a 33 point pace in first 27 games, Panarin playing at a 103 point pace.

Since Zibanejad got going - he's playing at a 120 point pace (24 games) and Panarin is playing at a 121 point pace (25 games).

Panarin only reached this level of production playing with Zibanejad on his team. They help each other out, whether it's playing together at pp or taking away tougher matchups. Adam Fox likely helps Panarin a whole lot too.

Drai proved last year he could outscore and outperform McDavid in a year. He certainly benefits from McDavid - but that goes both ways.

Finally - since we're talking about players on NYR, Toronto and Colorado - all 3 of those teams have better offense than Edmonton this year. Maybe more of Edmonton's offense goes through McDavid + Drai - but those other 3 teams simply have it more spread out, but still produce more overall meaning they have a better supporting cast. I think that nullifies the teammate argument.

Draisaitl > Panarin
Draisaitl > Matthews

He's in that tier for #2, alongside Kucherov and maybe MacKinnon.

i disagree with both of those, and dont think i even mentioned Matthews. i said my top were McD/Mack/Hedman/Panarin/Kuch

i still dont think Zib effects Panarin very much. already said he is only involved in 9/56 (16%) of his points this year. Panarin absolutely works with less than any superstar we are talking about here.

the reason Edmonton has a worse offense than the other teams is probably because they dont really have any offense outside of their big 2. but team offense isnt really relevant in individual player talks.

 

[CatchyTune]

It’s really Barkov

Barkov has really upped his game this year and IMO is a top 10 player now but is not in consideration for 2nd best.

 

[34]

Hart trophy and Ted Lindsey (voted by players) says hi.

Best goal scorer in the NHL says hi.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Best goal scorer in the NHL says hi.

Doesn't trump Ted Lindsey

 

[34]

Doesn't trump Ted Lindsey

Lmao

 

[Golden_Jet]

Lmao

Back at ya

 

[nowhereman]

You’re not fooling anyone with your anti-Toronto bias rhetoric.

Matthews is way better than Draisaitl. Drai just rides the coat tails of McDavid. Stop trying to say he is better than the best goal scorer in the world.

I don't know what Ovechkin has to do with anything but it is nothing less than absurd to say that Draisaitl just rides McDavid's coattails. Draisaitl has been better than Matthews for years, although Matthews is closing the gap.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

Every time I watch the Leafs, I try to understand the hype around Matthews, but always come away disappointed. He is the best pure goal scorer, no doubt, and there is huge value in that. He is pretty invisible when he doesn't score though.

I voted Hedman. There is a reasonable debate about forwards, but there is really no sound argument that Hedman isn't heads above every other D in the league.

He does a lot of the little things. kinda like sid in that regard. but yeah doesn't seem like the exceptional player on the surface

 

[4EDM14OIL93]

Lmao

You realize the Ted Lindsay is literally for the “most outstanding player” lmao

And the Hart is for the “most valuable player”

And the Art Ross is for the best points producer

In what world is winning all three of those not much more impressive than just winning the rocket? Btw Draisaitl has also been a goal away from winning a rocket too... I know you are a huge homer but this is quite the take even for you

 

[Buck Naked]

Best goal scorer in the NHL says hi.

I remember the days where Jonathan Cheechoo was a better player than prime Thornton and Martin St. Louis.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

I remember the days where Jonathan Cheechoo was a better player than prime Thornton and Martin St. Louis.

did you seriously just compare Matthews to Cheechoo?

 

[Holymakinaw]

Draisaitl has been better than Matthews for years, although Matthews is closing the gap.

I'm a Leaf fan & all, but I agree with this. As impressive as Matthews's goals have been this season, we shouldn't forget that Leon Draisaitl had a 50 goal/105 point season, followed immediately by a 43 goal/110 point season. And of course.....Art Ross, Ted Lindsay, Hart. Matthews has never done that.

Some could argue that Draisaitl has McDavid and that creates a TON of room for him and he wouldn't be where he is without him, and that's partly true. But Matthews has Marner and Tavares and Nylander, creating room for him, too. You can't tell me that all the opponent's focus is on Matthews all the time, when they have to worry about those other three.

So up until THIS season, Draisaitl has simply been better than Matthews. Now it's finally "neck & neck". And soon, we can argue "Calder + Rocket vs. Art Ross + Lindsay + Hart" which ain't a bad argument, really.

 

[The90]

2018-2019:

Draisaitl 50 goals, 55 assists, 105 points
Panarin 28 goals, 59 assists, 87 points

2019-2020:
Draisaitl 43 goals, 67 assists, 110 points. Swept all the major awards
Panarin 32 goals, 63 assists, 95 points

2021:

Draisaitl 24 goals, 43 assists, 67 points
Panarin 17 goals, 39 assists, 56 points

Why exactly would we swap Draisaitl out for Panarin?

Panarin doesn’t have an 84 point player that’s in on 75% of his points...

 

[Garthinater]

Draisaitl is not on the same level as Matthews. Matthews is the best goal scorer in the world.

1. McDavid
2. Matthews/Mackinnon (flip a coin).

Points > goals.

Matthews is 11th in ppg over the last 3 seasons. That is not the 2nd best player.

 

[34]

Points > goals.

Matthews is 11th in ppg over the last 3 seasons. That is not the 2nd best player.

Goals > Points

Matthews is the best in the NHL. That is the 2nd best player in the world.

 

[keglu]

Goals > Points

Matthews is the best in the NHL. That is the 2nd best player in the world.

Why not first considering goals > points?

 

[bobholly39]

Goals > Points

Matthews is the best in the NHL. That is the 2nd best player in the world.

Last 3 years Matthews has 3 more goals than Drai
Drai has 69 more points though.

69 points > 3 goals. That's like a McDavid to 4th liner gap.

 

[bobholly39]

It’s really Barkov

Barkov isn't even top 10

In some order: McDavid/Drai/Mack/Kucherov/Hedman/Crosby/Matthews/Panarin/Kane/Marchand

Can probably come up with a list of 5 other names who are close to him.

Maybe if you try really, really hard - you can make a case for Barkov above 1 or 2 players I listed. That's still nowhere near 2nd place. He's not even top 2 in the state of Florida.

 

[explore]

Another poll to show that MacKinnon is overrated. No major accolades, never hit 100 points, but the 2nd best player in the league...

Oh come on, over the last four seasons, MacKinnon has: 97 points in 74 games, 99 points in 82 games, 93 points in 69 games, and this year has 61 points in 44 games, which is a pace of 113 points over 82 games

MacKinnon is absolutely the second best player in the league after McDavid

 

[34]

Last 3 years Matthews has 3 more goals than Drai
Drai has 69 more points though.

69 points > 3 goals. That's like a McDavid to 4th liner gap.

If Matthews played with McDavid he would have 200 points a season. Draisaitl rides the coattails of McDavid.

Matthews is straight up the best goal scorer in the game today.

 

[4EDM14OIL93]

Goals > Points

Matthews is the best in the NHL. That is the 2nd best player in the world.

Why didn’t you respond to my post above?

Also so has Ovechkin been the 2nd best player in the world for essentially his whole career?

 

[bobholly39]

If Matthews played with McDavid he would have 200 points a season. Draisaitl rides the coattails of McDavid.

Matthews is straight up the best goal scorer in the game today.

Considering Gretzky in his peak couldn't do 200 points a season in today's era, we can sum up your post by:

"Matthews >> Gretzky"

Any chance you want to put that in your signature? Giving people a heads that that's your valuation of Matthews will likely avoid future arguments