Rumor: 2c for next season

Who is your choice To be 2c 2019-2020


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Hornstar

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Feb 3, 2018
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Voted Hayes but I wouldn't be surprised to see Jost in that spot. If we draft a 2C at #4 like Turcotte or Zegras I guess Jost wouldn't be too bad as a band-aid solution for a year or two if the UFA guys price themselves out but he would have to have much better Ws than he had so far since being with the Avs. Something like Landy - Jost - very good W. Jost seemed to turn a corner during the playoffs but I still would much prefer Hayes. I'm not convinced Kadri is a solution after hearing what RIAL had to say about Kadri's problem with coaches.

If we draft Byram though we absolutely need to find a 2C...Hayes or by trade as the others are not very enticing. I guess Johnson would be OK.
Jost for a year or two? Holy f*** if that happens we will all want sakics head. Henchman nailed the jost situation a while back. He is not the answer.
 

AllAboutAvs

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Jost for a year or two? Holy **** if that happens we will all want sakics head. Henchman nailed the jost situation a while back. He is not the answer.
I believe if he has two very good wingers he could be a decent stop gap. He needs at least one of them to do the dirty work for him though. That's why he had chemistry with Landy for the short time he played with him.

When I say a year or two I mostly mean one season and a half...next season and then our future 2C (hopefully Turcotte) starts the year after on the 3rd line to get his feet wet and by Jan of that year he is ready to move up to 2C to finish the year.
 

Raucherhusten

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Aug 24, 2017
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We already have about 25 centers in our org plus we are probably drafting another one with our 4th overall. That should be enough. One of them will be good enough pretty soon.

Upgrade the wings with Ferland and Skinner and we are good to go.
 
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Gatorbait19

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Apr 2, 2019
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I pray Joe isn't as complacent as some of y'all. We can't keep throwing seasons away like that, not anymore.

We don’t always agree, but I’m of the exact same mindset. We just differ in the route we’re taking there.
 

mapletreemarty

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Jan 26, 2017
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I like Tyler Johnson.. In some of Tampa's previous years hes had to be their top line center because Stamkos was either injured or wasn't playing well.

The guy has speed, goes to the dirty areas of the ice, and is pretty good in the playoffs.

TJ, Kadri, Hayes from this list.

If we do end up with Hayes I hope to god we also get Panarin or Skinner. Because I'm really worried about Hayes being worth his contract without some kind of high end trigger man on his wing.

Tyler Johnson for me as well... 5 years left on his deal at $5 million per... that sounds pretty amazing to me. Not sure what we would have to give up to make it happen...maybe TJ, plus a cap dump like Callahan so that what we trade back has a little less value. TJ has a full no move clause until June of 2021...
 
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mapletreemarty

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Jan 26, 2017
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4OA + 16OA + 2020 1st + Jost/Kerfoot/Kamenev/Bowers

Too much? Only ever been told he's untouchable. Doesn't really hurt us at all. If they'd rather two of the guys listed, remove one of our 1sts.

That being said, if we strike out on Panarin in FA, Barrie for Giroux seems more like something Sakic might be kicking tires on.

I'm not sure if the Flyers would be interested in Barrie with Provorov, Ghost, and Sanheim back there, and P.Myers might crack that roster in the fall.
 
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Meeqs

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Aug 23, 2012
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There was a time to be complacent, but now that the team is becoming competitive he needs to put things together and quick, or we will just be another "what if" team that never takes the next step.

To play devils advocate, a large majority of the times teams ruin their futures by being too hasty and trying to improve quickly which is far more common than teams missing out by being too passive. Having the option to be patient and pick your spots is a fantastic advantage in this league and through patience Sakic has put the Avs in such a fantastic position that its more about not messing anything up at this point than it is about improving, most of the pieces are there.
 

CobraAcesS

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To play devils advocate, a large majority of the times teams ruin their futures by being too hasty and trying to improve quickly which is far more common than teams missing out by being too passive. Having the option to be patient and pick your spots is a fantastic advantage in this league and through patience Sakic has put the Avs in such a fantastic position that its more about not messing anything up at this point than it is about improving, most of the pieces are there.

Just curious, do you have an example? Something that does not involve signing guys like Lucic, Ladd, etc?

Most of the teams I can think of that fit that are teams like Toronto where they can't seem to help themselves with signings like Clarkson, Marleau, etc. Or in a scenario like ours the last couple of years Sakic was playing? Or Detroit signing stupid contracts at the tail end of their window.

It is like being on the dating market well past your prime. Yeah you can still get dates, but the ones you get either cost 200$ an hour, or significantly drop down the number scale once you sober up.
 

Meeqs

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Just curious, do you have an example? Something that does not involve signing guys like Lucic, Ladd, etc?

Most of the teams I can think of that fit that are teams like Toronto where they can't seem to help themselves with signings like Clarkson, Marleau, etc. Or in a scenario like ours the last couple of years Sakic was playing? Or Detroit signing stupid contracts at the tail end of their window.

It is like being on the dating market well past your prime. Yeah you can still get dates, but the ones you get either cost 200$ an hour, or significantly drop down the number scale once you sober up.

Just simply going back and looking through what makes all the best teams each year good, its almost never UFAs, which makes sense. In general UFA is good for depth signings but if you looked at every giant UFA signing over the past 5 years and categorized them as good or bad decisions that 75-90% of them would be bad. Which makes sense because UFA players rarely sign for competitive rates.

Its definitely a very complex and high level topic but I think the easier solution to your question would be to look at the inverse. When is the last time a team went big into UFA and it was the driving force for their success? The team that most aggressively followed this model in recent memory was Min and we all know how that turned out.

Also while you say something that doesn't involve Lucic or Ladd, I could easily find 10-15 equally bad signing where as I think it would be hard to find 5 that were good.
 

CobraAcesS

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Just simply going back and looking through what makes all the best teams each year good, its almost never UFAs, which makes sense. In general UFA is good for depth signings but if you looked at every giant UFA signing over the past 5 years and categorized them as good or bad decisions that 75-90% of them would be bad. Which makes sense because UFA players rarely sign for competitive rates.

Its definitely a very complex and high level topic but I think the easier solution to your question would be to look at the inverse. When is the last time a team went big into UFA and it was the driving force for their success? The team that most aggressively followed this model in recent memory was Min and we all know how that turned out.

Also while you say something that doesn't involve Lucic or Ladd, I could easily find 10-15 equally bad signing where as I think it would be hard to find 5 that were good.

I'd argue signings or acquisitions like Hossa and Kessel, or even guys like Niskanen or Oshie helped put teams over the top before they won the cup. So no their base isn't built through UFAs, but it is pretty common that teams need to be aggressive when it comes to the final couple of pieces at times.

I don't want something stupid like Hayes at 7M for five years, but it is time to be aggressive IMO.
 
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Meeqs

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I'd argue signings or acquisitions like Hossa and Kessel, or even guys like Niskanen or Oshie helped put teams over the top before they won the cup. So no their base isn't built through UFAs, but it is pretty common that teams need to be aggressive when it comes to the final couple of pieces at times.

I don't want something stupid like Hayes at 7M for five years, but it is time to be aggressive IMO.

I think for comparisons sake we should avoid the use of cap circumventing deal like Hossa's. Also Oshie was traded for and not a UFA if I remember correctly, although they did resign him.

When we look at those teams though what we notice is that they already had their cores in place that were good enough to win Cups without them but with their addition as depth guys they did help.

An example of a good UFA signing would be something like Ian Cole. Good role player but not really the reason you would win or lose.

I have stated in a few places that the Avs are now actually in a position where UFAs could make sense but I wouldn't go far enough to say its time to be aggressive. We are just starting a 6-9 year cup contention window, so while its justifiable to look to get better in the now, I also don't feel there is a large rush. Also the Avs have some pretty big unknowns on the team in Barries future, this years 1st rounders, Bowers, Timmins and Kaut that will all have a large impact on the Avs and their future needs, so it may be a bit early to fully commit to certain types of players right now.

There is certainly a good argument for making some win now moves, however if the Avs simply do nothing other than D&D they will still be in a very good spot. The only circumstance in which they lose is should they lock in big money to the wrong player.
 

CobraAcesS

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I think for comparisons sake we should avoid the use of cap circumventing deal like Hossa's. Also Oshie was traded for and not a UFA if I remember correctly, although they did resign him.

When we look at those teams though what we notice is that they already had their cores in place that were good enough to win Cups without them but with their addition as depth guys they did help.

An example of a good UFA signing would be something like Ian Cole. Good role player but not really the reason you would win or lose.

I have stated in a few places that the Avs are now actually in a position where UFAs could make sense but I wouldn't go far enough to say its time to be aggressive. We are just starting a 6-9 year cup contention window, so while its justifiable to look to get better in the now, I also don't feel there is a large rush. Also the Avs have some pretty big unknowns on the team in Barries future, this years 1st rounders, Bowers, Timmins and Kaut that will all have a large impact on the Avs and their future needs, so it may be a bit early to fully commit to certain types of players right now.

There is certainly a good argument for making some win now moves, however if the Avs simply do nothing other than D&D they will still be in a very good spot. The only circumstance in which they lose is should they lock in big money to the wrong player.

How exactly do you acknowledge teams winning the cup after win now moves, and then find a way to walk back to we'll be in a good spot if we just D&D?

I can't even handle the mental gymnastics lol. I feel like I'm looking down at my brain as a wet spot on the carpet.

This team is right on the line right now. Makar helps, but there was that whole November, December, etc debacle that we shouldn't forget. Not improving the top nine is just not an option IMO. Although I agree they don't need to be stupid about it. However they may need to spend assets in order to get the right fit when it comes to age and contract.
 

BKarchitect

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Oct 12, 2017
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Upgrade the wings with Ferland and Skinner and we are good to go.

Yeah but how much is Ferland+Skinner gonna cost? There’s aggressive and then there’s this...the bidding on those two is going to get crazy.

Don’t get me wrong, I would totally roll with Skinner-Jost-Ferland as a second line with Turcotte or Zegras waiting in the wings just think that will be rather pricey and more than Joe will be willing to outlay in UFA’s for the second line.

Still if you got one and traded for another top 6 winger that’s great too. I also am not so terribly concerned that it has to be a center as long as we get, thru combined free agency and or trades, two legit pieces we can add up front and be comfortable with as too 6 fits.
 
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Meeqs

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Aug 23, 2012
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How exactly do you acknowledge teams winning the cup after win now moves, and then find a way to walk back to we'll be in a good spot if we just D&D?

I can't even handle the mental gymnastics lol. I feel like I'm looking down at my brain as a wet spot on the carpet.

This team is right on the line right now. Makar helps, but there was that whole November, December, etc debacle that we shouldn't forget. Not improving the top nine is just not an option IMO. Although I agree they don't need to be stupid about it. However they may need to spend assets in order to get the right fit when it comes to age and contract.

I'm saying that for a small number of teams, who are already in a win now position due to properly D&Ding a core, can find some benefit by signing UFA guys for depth. However most of the time, teams who go big in UFA end up doing more harm than good. As well as UFAs never really being the main reasons teams win or lose even if they can provide fringe benefit in shoring up last minute holes.

So the important part is getting to a spot to properly utilize UFAs which most teams aren't.

The conversation has been a little all over the place and not very clear or concise I admit.

The Avs are slowly getting better and have solutions for their problems in place, and while the right UFA could be very useful being too aggressive more than likely will harm the Avs cup chances than help them
 
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cgf

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How exactly do you acknowledge teams winning the cup after win now moves, and then find a way to walk back to we'll be in a good spot if we just D&D?

I can't even handle the mental gymnastics lol. I feel like I'm looking down at my brain as a wet spot on the carpet.

This team is right on the line right now. Makar helps, but there was that whole November, December, etc debacle that we shouldn't forget. Not improving the top nine is just not an option IMO. Although I agree they don't need to be stupid about it. However they may need to spend assets in order to get the right fit when it comes to age and contract.

like
 

CobraAcesS

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All of it, reading folks trying & talk their way around the impact that outside additions have had on recent cup winners, makes my eyes bleed.

I just can't like posts until one of my warnings expires, so I'm being a bit of a b**** about it :laugh:

tenor.gif
 

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