Post-Game Talk: #25- 03/11/21 | RANGERS @ boston | 7:00 - ESPN+ MSG2

[FireGerardGallant]

I think the coach has got to go; we won't know how the K'Lafrenko's can truly do until he's gone. But if he continues to play like a 3rd line floating bath plug even post that, then yeah maybe he wasn't actually talented enough. I hope this isn't the case. He has flashes of good vision, and the rest of the time his stick is off the ice.

Id be more concerned about it if this wasn't literally everyone else on this supposedly untalented roster. They all look so dejected and not caring its insane. Whose given an honest good effort the last 3 games. Thats what this coach supposedly prides himself on and if thats the case hes an abject failure. They keep somehow get more and more embarrassing with each passing game.

 

[NYR94]

Rangers when healthy under Quinn have:

Panarin-Strome-Blackwell
Kreider-Zibanejad-Rooney
Lemieux-Chytil-Gauthier
Lafrenière-Howden-Kakko

The best part is no Buchnevich lol

 

[ThirdEye]

I’m starting to think it’s the cultural here that’s the main culprit. Seems like we pamper our players and don’t push them out of their comfort zone consistently. There is a certain entitlement and easy goingness with this team that I don’t really see with other teams (especially perennial contenders)

Having this much youth isn’t bad in itself, but the Rangers made no effort to balance that out with some type of proven veteran leadership . Instead they have a guy like Howden who probably still lives with his mom taking up space on the roster.

I do think there are guys here that are inherently hungry and possess some sort of drive but the atmosphere here doesn’t seem to be conductive to nurturing that.

 

[Irishguy42]

I think the coach has got to go; we won't know how the K'Lafrenko's can truly do until he's gone. But if he continues to play like a 3rd line floating bath plug even post that, then yeah maybe he wasn't actually talented enough. I hope this isn't the case. He has flashes of good vision, and the rest of the time his stick is off the ice.

I don't know about this one, chief

 

[DialUp]

I don't know about this one, chief

It ain't going on the back of any jersey

 

[savebyrichter94]

I’m starting to think it’s the cultural here that’s the main culprit. Seems like we pamper our players and don’t push them out of their comfort zone consistently. There is a certain entitlement and easy goingness with this team that I don’t really see with other teams (especially perennial contenders)

Having this much youth isn’t bad in itself, but the Rangers made no effort to balance that out with some type of proven veteran leadership . Instead they have a guy like Howden who probably still lives with his mom taking up space on the roster.

I do think there are guys here that are inherently hungry and possess some sort of drive but the atmosphere here doesn’t seem to be conductive to nurturing that.

There was a lot of Major League references in the GDT last night and the one I keep coming back to in my mind lately is to make this team travel on a broken down bus and take all their amenities away!

I know it’s not realistic but it would be funny to see these guys have all their cushy perks stripped from them, in reality they aren’t owed any of it beyond their salary!

If the children won’t follow the rules then take their toys away instead of rewarding them with more over the top coddling and excuses!

 

[Kovalev27]

Talent and results are two entirely different things. Talent is being naturally gifted. We have lots of talent on thus team. They aren’t producing, but that doesn’t mean they’re not talented. We have a coach, system, and culture that does the exact opposite of turning talent into results. Some teams squeeze the absolute most ability out of their players. We are not at all one of those teams. That doesn’t mean we aren’t extraordinarily talented.

tl;dr Mika is playing like dogshit. He’s still one of the most talented players on our team.

thank you for summing this up. As I said the team has like 10 first round talents along with panarin and Buchnevich in their top 13. 2 first and second overalls.

Talent is not the issue

 

[savebyrichter94]

thank you for summing this up. As I said the team has like 10 first round talents along with panarin and Buchnevich in their top 13. 2 first and second overalls.

Talent is not the issue

I tend to agree on this point as well, my only caveat would be maybe there’s too much skill and not enough will?

Too many players on this team seem to be content with resting on their laurels and not getting their hands dirty so to speak

It’s not exactly a new phenomenon when it comes to this team either and all roads seem to lead back to the overall culture of this franchise because the coaches, management and players change but the underlying themes never seem to change except for a few short stints here and there scattered amongst our history

As the saying goes “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark”

 

[JHS]

thank you for summing this up. As I said the team has like 10 first round talents along with panarin and Buchnevich in their top 13. 2 first and second overalls.

Talent is not the issue

While I agree that talent is not the main issue with the team- some of these first round talents were given up on by other organizations before they were 25. To me, that's always a red flag. It could speak to some serious character flaws, because it's unlikely a team would give up on a talented and hard working first round pick before he turned 25 for many other reasons.

 

[NYSPORTS]

While I agree that talent is not the main issue with the team- some of these first round talents were given up on by other organizations before they were 25. To me, that's always a red flag. It could speak to some serious character flaws, because it's unlikely a team would give up on a talented and hard working first round pick before he turned 25 for many other reasons.

well, there is no Captain for a reason. Not sure what the plan is. Are they waiting for Laf and/or Miller to mature? How awkward would that be for veterans if a kid is given the C?

Being the team is losing and not looking so hot i think discussing the C is up for debate.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

It reminds me of the film Miracle where Herb Brooks says the team doesn’t have enough talent to win off talent alone. This team has enough talent to win off talent alone. But the system, or lack thereof, and culture are sabotaging the talent we have. We reward mediocre players who work hard despite the fact they have no business being on this team. Certain players are treated better than others. There’s a kind of arrogance that goes into personnel decisions. In some cases Quinn can’t keep the same personnel in a situation for more than a few minutes, like the lines some games. Other times, like the PP, he refuses to adjust, which has been pretty terrible for a while now.

I really don’t want Kravstov coming back into this shitshow before Quinn is canned. We don’t need another top level player turning into sawdust. It’s bad enough what happened to Lias and what’s currently happening to Kakko and Laf. Kravstov has already had issues with Quinn. We need a better situation for our players. We need a better culture and environment.

 

[Kovalev27]

While I agree that talent is not the main issue with the team- some of these first round talents were given up on by other organizations before they were 25. To me, that's always a red flag. It could speak to some serious character flaws, because it's unlikely a team would give up on a talented and hard working first round pick before he turned 25 for many other reasons.

well that’s still not talent being the issue but in fairness this isn’t really a good argument

Mika and Strome have played their absolute best hockey as Rangers.

kreider Buchnevich Chytil are home grown

lafreniere and kakko are first and second overall home grown picks

panarin is a super star who pushed to come here and played his best season as a Ranger

lemieux and Howden came over in big trades they weren’t given away

Gauthier is really the only one you could say supports your argument maybe was given up on but keane at the time was having a great year in the ahl as a valued right shot dman

and kravtsov a very talented 9th overall pick we’re all terrified of coming back here to play under Quinn

so what does that tell you

 

[Kovalev27]

I tend to agree on this point as well, my only caveat would be maybe there’s too much skill and not enough will?

Too many players on this team seem to be content with resting on their laurels and not getting their hands dirty so to speak

It’s not exactly a new phenomenon when it comes to this team either and all roads seem to lead back to the overall culture of this franchise because the coaches, management and players change but the underlying themes never seem to change except for a few short stints here and there scattered amongst our history

As the saying goes “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark”

too much skill and not enough will is a fair argument I will say

however you have to find a different voice to see if that’s the case or if the messaging is wrong. You cannot assume this much talent can’t score because they’re not trying to. They’ve all done it their entire lives. If we were losing games 6-5 because we don’t defend. That would make sense. But we don’t do anything at all. It’s ridiculous

 

[duhmetreE]

Talent ≠ Production

We have more than enough talent. We just have a horrible coach.

It really does amaze me how we some people still do not see Quinn Hockey as the problem. How? I genuinely want to understand.

 

[duhmetreE]

I tend to agree on this point as well, my only caveat would be maybe there’s too much skill and not enough will?

Too many players on this team seem to be content with resting on their laurels and not getting their hands dirty so to speak

It’s not exactly a new phenomenon when it comes to this team either and all roads seem to lead back to the overall culture of this franchise because the coaches, management and players change but the underlying themes never seem to change except for a few short stints here and there scattered amongst our history

As the saying goes “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark”

We had that will last year. We lost it since Covid Cup.

What's the differences? Ruff left and JD came on board. How do we go from a fun, relentless exciting team, to this?

 

[NYSPORTS]

We had that will last year. We lost it since Covid Cup.

What's the differences? Ruff left and JD came on board. How do we go from a fun, relentless exciting team, to this?

there appears to be little energy. I don’t get it.

 

[savebyrichter94]

We had that will last year. We lost it since Covid Cup.

What's the differences? Ruff left and JD came on board. How do we go from a fun, relentless exciting team, to this?

I wish I had the definitive answer for you but it’s pretty obvious something, whatever that something is, has changed and the results are alarming.

I think it’s probably a combination of things, lack of leadership, loss of confidence in the coach/system, misguided attempts at accountability etc.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Talent is not the problem. This team has it in spades. Hell, this is the most talented roster since the mid 1990's teams that had Graves, Messier, Gretzky, Leetch, Richter, etc.

The roster composition is poor and the coach refuses to adjust to let the strengths of the team shine. I'm not saying go out there and play pond hockey, but with a team with this much offensive firepower, instructing the players to pass it around the perimeter until a lapse in coverage occurs and not to carry the puck in past the blue line and dump it in isn't conductive to the personnel we have.

The coach is out of his depth and over his head. Get rid of him. I don't want the front office to make any huge changes until we see this roster under a new coach.

 

[tailgunner]

We had that will last year. We lost it since Covid Cup.

What's the differences? Ruff left and JD came on board. How do we go from a fun, relentless exciting team, to this?

the difference is the goaltending has taken turn for the worst
I said it last year and people on here said that was the worst post they ever read

our goaltending is terrible and shesterkin is not an elite goalie, he constantly gets hurt and even when healthy all I see is an average goalie, nothing that makes him elite
I don't know why people on this board think Shesterkin is some kind of Hasek type goalie. he is average at best

then the next problem is Quinn
and then the soft culture of this team no snarl or grit, alot of cream puff soft players

 

[OverTheCap]

We lost 3 homegrown Rangers in the offseason, one of whom was the face of the franchise and de facto leader of the team, in Lundqvist, Staal, and Fast. Replacing them with Jack Johnson is not going to offset the void that those veterans filled.

I think the front office did a piss-poor job of identifying leaders/veterans that can set a good example for a very young team. Even post-2005 lockout when the team started integrating younger, homegrown players into the lineup, we had a solid group of vets such as Shanahan, Straka, Drury, etc., that the players could look to on the ice and in the locker room for leadership. Zibanejad, Kreider, and Trouba ain't it.

 

[duhmetreE]

the difference is the goaltending has taken turn for the worst
I said it last year and people on here said that was the worst post they ever read

our goaltending is terrible and shesterkin is not an elite goalie, he constantly gets hurt and even when healthy all I see is an average goalie, nothing that makes him elite
I don't know why people on this board think Shesterkin is some kind of Hasek type goalie. he is average at best

then the next problem is Quinn
and then the soft culture of this team no snarl or grit, alot of cream puff soft players

completely disagree. He has been getting hurt way too often. Georgiev has been embarrassing.

BUT after a couple of hiccups, he's back to being shesterkin... we shouldn't need goalies stealing games, every game. Yes, its nice every once in a while... We can't be giving up soft goals. Shesterkin, as of late, has been standing on his head.

 

[Raspewtin]

90% of our roster’s talent is Panarin and Fox.

I know he's basically a corpse so far this year but Zibanejad and the two lottery picks count for something. Talent isn't just 2021 production.

The Habs don’t have an elite player like Panarin, but compare their 4 F lines and 3 D pairs to ours. The Rangers have a good top-six, an awful bottom-6, one good pairing and two awful pairings.

The Habs have one of the more unique F setups in hockey cause their entire bottom 6 are volume shooters. Beyond that, The only line they have definitvely better than NYR's is the Danault line, and even that's a good second line.

You're comparing the NYR at their absolute worst to the Habs getting multiple career years out of the gate.

Half our roster is bad. I don’t understand how people can think it’s talented, (aside from it being harder to swallow than everything being Quinn’s fault.)

Our roster is not bad. It certainly has some bad players, but it's better than average. This is a huge exaggeration. Howden is dogshit and the bottom 2 D are bad. Not saying those aren't mportant roles but you are describing this roster as if it was the tanking Sabres. This may be a roster that's a bit uneven with where it's at but it's not bad and I think you're being disingenuous when you make this argument, and it's one that a lot of Quinn's defenders make (i must emphasize I do not love or hate Quinn). They exaggerate the holes on the roster to make it seem like how bad they are is no surprise.

Do you honestly not remember what our 2013-15 rosters looked like? Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello; Hagelin-Hayes-Miller; those used to be our 3rd lines FFS.

do you remember what those team's top 6's looked like? where our leading scorer would have been 3rd or 4th on the team last year? or how McDonagh would be the 3rd leading scorer from D at best? Or how Zibanejad did in 57 games what it took 70+ for Gaborik or Nash to do at their best?

for god's sake Zibanejad was on pace for more goals over 82 games last year than Stepan ever had points as a Ranger!

Oh and using Pou-Brass-Zucc/Hagelin-Hayes-Miller against a 3rd line of 19/20 year olds isn't the trump card you think it is either way

 

[TominNC]

the difference is the goaltending has taken turn for the worst
I said it last year and people on here said that was the worst post they ever read

our goaltending is terrible and shesterkin is not an elite goalie, he constantly gets hurt and even when healthy all I see is an average goalie, nothing that makes him elite
I don't know why people on this board think Shesterkin is some kind of Hasek type goalie. he is average at best

then the next problem is Quinn
and then the soft culture of this team no snarl or grit, alot of cream puff soft players

Shesterkin was one of the top goalies in the league before he got hurt.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

We lost 3 homegrown Rangers in the offseason, one of whom was the face of the franchise and de facto leader of the team, in Lundqvist, Staal, and Fast. Replacing them with Jack Johnson is not going to offset the void that those veterans filled.

I think the front office did a piss-poor job of identifying leaders/veterans that can set a good example for a very young team. Even post-2005 lockout when the team started integrating younger, homegrown players into the lineup, we had a solid group of vets such as Shanahan, Straka, Drury, etc., that the players could look to on the ice and in the locker room for leadership. Zibanejad, Kreider, and Trouba ain't it.

The funny thing is, I've heard the lack of leadership/heart criticism thrown out there against almost every iteration of this team that HAD those 3 guys on it. It's a bull shit criticism used by people who have no idea how to express their frustration any other way.

The FO deserves some blame for sure, but not because of the lack of "leadership." They should get heat for putting together this homogenous roster and allowing Quinn to hang around.

 

[MyLoveIsBlue]