Post-Game Talk: #24: Saturday, Nov. 28, 2015, Flyers at Rangers

[FLYguy3911]

Yeah Edmonton wouldn't do that.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah, Edmonton wouldn't do that after how well Draisaitl has played this season.

 

[blinds]

If we're looking at either Drai or RNH, we're going to need to add another big piece going back with Simmonds. You know EDM would want one of our D prospects.

I'd be willing to trade Simmonds, but I don't know if I'd be willing to part with any of our D without seeing what we have in them first. If we could do Simmonds + 2016 1st I would probably take that. Of course we'd want to lottery protect it with how this season is going, but that would probably be a deal breaker...

 

[Striiker]

The big 4 D prospects are 100% untouchable as far as I'm concerned. Same with our 1st round pick.

I'm not really for or against trading Simmonds, I'm kinda fine with either option. On one side he's worth quite a bit and could get us some really good pieces back, but the reason he's so valuable to other teams is the same reason he's valuable to us. I guess it really comes down to how long Hextall expects it to be before we become a playoff team (opposed to a could-maybe-kinda-sneak-in-to-a-wildcard-spot team). If it's within 2 or 3 years then he might want to keep Simmonds, but if it's after Simmonds will need a new contract then he might as well sell high on him.

 

[Rebels57]

How to people feel about Simmonds for Draisaitl as the basis for a deal.

Is that a non-starter from EDM's point of view?

Apologies, haven't closely followed Leon's progress the past 12 months

He's tearing it up. We would have to add another quality piece.

Simmonds + Hagg + 2nd (between 30-40) for RNH would be fair value as far as i'm concerned, but I think Edmonton would rather move RNH in a deal that nets them a 1st pairing defensemen.

 

[whitstifier]

Would anyone consider trading Neuvirth? Lots of playoff teams could use goaltending depth. He could return significant pieces. Packaging him with Simmonds might be enough to pry McCarron away from Montreal?

 

[Tripod]

I have had quite a few battles with Habs fans over Simmonds in the past few days/week. Using the Lucic return:

13th overall=McCarron
Jones(traded for a 1st + prospect)=Juulsen
Miller(NHL ready D)=JDLR

That trade gives us:
a potential scoring C...which will make people happy
a RHD to add to our current crop of D prospect
a good defensive forward with upside...to replace Read possibly.

Then draft a LW with our 1st...say Jones, Tkachuk or Laine depending where we pick. Call them $$$$.

Laughton Giroux Voracek
$$$$ McCarron Konecny
JDLR Couts Schenn

Then we still have Cousins, NAK, Lindblom, Leier, Fazleev, etc... as guys who could outplay others I listed, maybe bump JDLR down and NAK is on the 3rd line. Or maybe 1 replaces Schenn in 1-2 years saving us money(like Lindblom)

Then on D:

Provorov Ghost
Morin Juulsen
Sanheim Hagg
Freidman Myers

Trading Simmonds is a good idea IF you get the right return and are able to fill 2 future holes. If we could trade him and fill a LW or C scoring spot and a RHD, I easily do it.

Plus, trading Simmonds does open up a spot for Konecny next year too.

If Simmonds was 2 years younger or his contract was 2 years longer, we keep him. But I don't think we should be signing a 30 year old Simmonds to the big $ and length he will want. So trade him now so that the returning pieces are ready to contribute in the next 1-3 years when all our kids on D are too.

 

[Rebels57]

I have had quite a few battles with Habs fans over Simmonds in the past few days/week. Using the Lucic return:

13th overall=McCarron
Jones(traded for a 1st + prospect)=Juulsen
Miller(NHL ready D)=JDLR

That trade gives us:
a potential scoring C...which will make people happy
a RHD to add to our current crop of D prospect
a good defensive forward with upside...to replace Read possibly.

Then draft a LW with our 1st...say Jones, Tkachuk or Laine depending where we pick. Call them $$$$.

Laughton Giroux Voracek
$$$$ McCarron Konecny
JDLR Couts Schenn

Then we still have Cousins, NAK, Lindblom, Leier, Fazleev, etc... as guys who could outplay others I listed, maybe bump JDLR down and NAK is on the 3rd line. Or maybe 1 replaces Schenn in 1-2 years saving us money(like Lindblom)

Then on D:

Provorov Ghost
Morin Juulsen
Sanheim Hagg
Freidman Myers

Trading Simmonds is a good idea IF you get the right return and are able to fill 2 future holes. If we could trade him and fill a LW or C scoring spot and a RHD, I easily do it.

Plus, trading Simmonds does open up a spot for Konecny next year too.

If Simmonds was 2 years younger or his contract was 2 years longer, we keep him. But I don't think we should be signing a 30 year old Simmonds to the big $ and length he will want. So trade him now so that the returning pieces are ready to contribute in the next 1-3 years when all our kids on D are too.

Sorry but i'm not trading Simmonds for three unproven pieces with mid-range ceilings. I'd either want proven or higher ceiling. This is a trade that a team that is about to lose a guy to UFA would make. Just my opinion.

 

[Curufinwe]

I would accept McCarron as the main piece in a Simmonds trade. But he's Montreal's only current hope of a top young center with size, so I doubt MAB (who just signed an extension that runs thru 2022) would move him.

 

[Rebels57]

I would accept McCarron as the main piece in a Simmonds trade. But he's Montreal's only current hope of a top young center with size, so I doubt MAB (who just signed an extension that runs thru 2022) would move him.

McCarron's absolute ceiling is 2nd line center. Does not have the tools to be a 1st line center, which is how I would describe a "top young center." Our definitions may differ though.

 

[whitstifier]

McCarron's absolute ceiling is 2nd line center. Does not have the tools to be a 1st line center, which is how I would describe a "top young center." Our definitions may differ though.

Curious what you'd think an acceptable return for Simmonds is.

 

[Rebels57]

Curious what you'd think an acceptable return for Simmonds is.

I wouldn't want to move him for a guy that if everything pans out for him, might be a 20-25 goal, 40-50 point forward in a few years, much like Simmonds already is (along with being our toughest player and part of the leadership group). If we HAD to trade him because we were going to lose him for nothing as UFA, then I might consider a package around McCarron.

I'd want established players or prospects with a higher ceiling.

 

[achdumeingute]

I'm torn on the simmonds trade train. I love him but we don't have a replacement. Ya white, McDonald and a few other guys in our organization bang and use their bodies but we aren't exactly a big tough team. Outside of Jake and simmonds we don't have any big power forwards in our top 9 and even our 4th line has 1, so we have 3. 1 (white) doesn't score and Jake is big and strong but doesn't bang.

That being said, i would want a big young forward, maybe crouse or I'd look to move him for a pure goal scorer if we drafted a power forward this year or iirc linbolm is relatively big?

I full well believe Couturier could easily fill this role, on the #1 PP.

 

[whitstifier]

I wouldn't want to move him for a guy that if everything pans out for him, might be a 20-25 goal, 40-50 point forward in a few years, much like Simmonds already is (along with being our toughest player and part of the leadership group). If we HAD to trade him because we were going to lose him for nothing as UFA, then I might consider a package around McCarron.

I'd want established players or prospects with a higher ceiling.

Both McCarron and Juulsen have higher ceilings than Simmonds. Do you want Sanheim and Konecny level prospects for him? That's not gonna happen...

 

[achdumeingute]

I wouldn't want to move him for a guy that if everything pans out for him, might be a 20-25 goal, 40-50 point forward in a few years, much like Simmonds already is (along with being our toughest player and part of the leadership group). If we HAD to trade him because we were going to lose him for nothing as UFA, then I might consider a package around McCarron.

I'd want established players or prospects with a higher ceiling.

the thing is, you are getting 3 players of this value, not one.

A prospect, B prospect, a first/high second is the price.

With our scouting, we can hopefully get 3 guys to help in 3 years.

 

[achdumeingute]

Both McCarron and Juulsen have higher ceilings than Simmonds. Do you want Sanheim and Konecny level prospects for him? That's not gonna happen...

I think you are wrong here, at least A team will overpay when they think they are close.

 

[whitstifier]

I think you are wrong here, at least A team will overpay when they think they are close.

Seriously? They both play more important positions than Simmonds. McCarron's ceiling is a bubble 1C and Juulsen's is a top 4D. Even if none hit and McCarron becomes a 3C, Juulsen a 4/5 defender and DLR a 4th liner, the return is still good. Those three players would provide more value than Simmonds and make a more complete Flyers roster.

 

[TCTC]

I'd want a Boedker type player for Simmonds. Someone who's younger, yet established and plays a position we need.

 

[whitstifier]

I'd want a Boedker type player for Simmonds. Someone who's younger, yet established and plays a position we need.

That's selling low on Simmonds. A NHL player who's an UFA after this season. Even if there's a plus, that return sucks. Boedker's AAV will be higher than Simmonds in his next contract. Max value for Simmonds would be a package of NHL ready prospects.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'd want a Boedker type player for Simmonds. Someone who's younger, yet established and plays a position we need.

Boedker's a UFA looking at a $5m cap hit.

 

[Tripod]

People do know that McCarron turned things around after a bad draft+1 year, right?

He is 6'6, 231lbs, is 20 years old, has 20 pts in 21 games in the AHL as a rookie. That is a tie for 7th in league scoring. He could be that scoring C that everyone says Couts is not.

And the of course Juulsen has top 4 Dman upside.

Then JDLR is a VERY good defensively depth player....age 20.

And yes...there is risk that they never hit Simmonds level. But to me, this is like the Carter trade. In 2+ years, this could look like a steal for us.

Anyways, this is just 1 trade example. Simmonds could get us 2 very good pieces that are not quite ready. And ideally, those pieces need to be a LW, C or a RHD.

If we don't trade Simmonds, we then will be using Schenn on the LW again next year when he is better on the RW. Or do we start messing with Konecny on the left side?

Reality is, Simmonds VALUE is great right now. Wait 3 years, and his value could be much lower and THEN when we try and move him, those assets will STILL be 2-3 years from helping us. So that could mean Simmonds return won't help us for 5+ years. I want that process sped up.

I am just trying to look ahead to what makes sense in 2-3 years. Having 2-3 assets that will be age 21/22 will be better than 1 that is 30 and looking for a big raise in the near future.

But ideally, we ship him out West for a similar return.

 

[achdumeingute]

Seriously? They both play more important positions than Simmonds. McCarron's ceiling is a bubble 1C and Juulsen's is a top 4D. Even if none hit and McCarron becomes a 3C, Juulsen a 4/5 defender and DLR a 4th liner, the return is still good. Those three players would provide more value than Simmonds and make a more complete Flyers roster.

maybe we have a miscommunication here. I think Simmonds easily nets that reward from a team that is close. Im in favor of a deal like that. I think I thought you were saying he wouldn't get that kind of a return.

MTL is pushing for it, doesn't have an internal cap ceiling like a STL, and while losing those guys hurt, they won't help them win now, where Simmonds will. They have time to replace those assets.

We wouldn't trade Sanheim or TK now because we are in a different place. If we already had NHL d men and a more filled out roster, and the prospect pool, I could see us dealing both those guys + a pick for a Simmonds asset.

Mtl still has someone like fucale to deal to get a solid player back for, as price is going nowhere.

 

[achdumeingute]

People do know that McCarron turned things around after a bad draft+1 year, right?

He is 6'6, 231lbs, is 20 years old, has 20 pts in 21 games in the AHL as a rookie. That is a tie for 7th in league scoring. He could be that scoring C that everyone says Couts is not.

And the of course Juulsen has top 4 Dman upside.

Then JDLR is a VERY good defensively depth player....age 20.

And yes...there is risk that they never hit Simmonds level. But to me, this is like the Carter trade. In 2+ years, this could look like a steal for us.

Anyways, this is just 1 trade example. Simmonds could get us 2 very good pieces that are not quite ready. And ideally, those pieces need to be a LW, C or a RHD.

If we don't trade Simmonds, we then will be using Schenn on the LW again next year when he is better on the RW. Or do we start messing with Konecny on the left side?

Reality is, Simmonds VALUE is great right now. Wait 3 years, and his value could be much lower and THEN when we try and move him, those assets will STILL be 2-3 years from helping us. So that could mean Simmonds return won't help us for 5+ years. I want that process sped up.

I am just trying to look ahead to what makes sense in 2-3 years. Having 2-3 assets that will be age 21/22 will be better than 1 that is 30 and looking for a big raise in the near future.

But ideally, we ship him out West for a similar return.

yep. Every move should be focused on the 2017-2018 Flyers.

I'm expecting the only old guys will be G, V, and Mason.

 

[whitstifier]

maybe we have a miscommunication here. I think Simmonds easily nets that reward from a team that is close. Im in favor of a deal like that. I think I thought you were saying he wouldn't get that kind of a return.

MTL is pushing for it, doesn't have an internal cap ceiling like a STL, and while losing those guys hurt, they won't help them win now, where Simmonds will. They have time to replace those assets.

We wouldn't trade Sanheim or TK now because we are in a different place. If we already had NHL d men and a more filled out roster, and the prospect pool, I could see us dealing both those guys + a pick for a Simmonds asset.

Mtl still has someone like fucale to deal to get a solid player back for, as price is going nowhere.

Whoops, yup. Totally misread what you said.

 

[Rebels57]

Both McCarron and Juulsen have higher ceilings than Simmonds. Do you want Sanheim and Konecny level prospects for him? That's not gonna happen...

I disagree with you on McCarron's ceiling. I think his ceiling is Simmonds production. Players hitting their ceiling is obviously not a sure thing.

Juulsen would be our 5th best defense prospect.

I just don't see how this type of package really helps us in such a way that it would make Simmonds worth trading.