Post-Game Talk: #24: Saturday, Nov. 28, 2015, Flyers at Rangers

[Rebels57]

Seriously? They both play more important positions than Simmonds. McCarron's ceiling is a bubble 1C and Juulsen's is a top 4D. Even if none hit and McCarron becomes a 3C, Juulsen a 4/5 defender and DLR a 4th liner, the return is still good. Those three players would provide more value than Simmonds and make a more complete Flyers roster.

JDLR does nothing for me since we have a glut of other bottom 6 calibre prospects and will surely add more every draft.

I just don't like the idea of trading Simmonds for what amounts to a prospect with potential to be a 2nd line center, and a defensemen that would likely play in our 3rd pair by the time we are contenders (no way Juulsen is a better prospect than our big 4). I want a bigger impact piece that would be a definitive upgrade, since my hand is not forced to trade Simmonds.

 

[Rebels57]

People do know that McCarron turned things around after a bad draft+1 year, right?

He is 6'6, 231lbs, is 20 years old, has 20 pts in 21 games in the AHL as a rookie. That is a tie for 7th in league scoring. He could be that scoring C that everyone says Couts is not.

And the of course Juulsen has top 4 Dman upside.

Then JDLR is a VERY good defensively depth player....age 20.

And yes...there is risk that they never hit Simmonds level. But to me, this is like the Carter trade. In 2+ years, this could look like a steal for us.

Anyways, this is just 1 trade example. Simmonds could get us 2 very good pieces that are not quite ready. And ideally, those pieces need to be a LW, C or a RHD.

If we don't trade Simmonds, we then will be using Schenn on the LW again next year when he is better on the RW. Or do we start messing with Konecny on the left side?

Reality is, Simmonds VALUE is great right now. Wait 3 years, and his value could be much lower and THEN when we try and move him, those assets will STILL be 2-3 years from helping us. So that could mean Simmonds return won't help us for 5+ years. I want that process sped up.

I am just trying to look ahead to what makes sense in 2-3 years. Having 2-3 assets that will be age 21/22 will be better than 1 that is 30 and looking for a big raise in the near future.

But ideally, we ship him out West for a similar return.

I definitely understand your line of thinking. It's not quite like the Carter trade though, Voracek already had a 50 and 46 point season under his belt and was a top 10 pick. It's the fact that McCarron and Juulsen are completely unproven at the NHL level and don't have high enough ceilings (in my eyes) to gamble on moving a valuable asset.

 

[flyershockey]

McCarron's ceiling is not that of a bubble #1 center. It's similar to Laughton's, a middle six center.

 

[achdumeingute]

I disagree with you on McCarron's ceiling. I think his ceiling is Simmonds production. Players hitting their ceiling is obviously not a sure thing.

Juulsen would be our 5th best defense prospect.

I just don't see how this type of package really helps us in such a way that it would make Simmonds worth trading.

I'm still expecting a 1st or high second back in addition to the two players listed.

3 assets in 3 years is better than 1 now...where we should be tankng anyway.

We can always end up trading juulsen or one of out drafted guys in two years for something else that fits.

Having more high quality assets is never a bad thing.

 

[whitstifier]

I disagree with you on McCarron's ceiling. I think his ceiling is Simmonds production. Players hitting their ceiling is obviously not a sure thing.

Juulsen would be our 5th best defense prospect.

I just don't see how this type of package really helps us in such a way that it would make Simmonds worth trading.

Did you see my earlier post? Even if none of the prospects hit, the trade would still be worth it. Let's say McCarron turns into Boyle, Juulsen turns into Carle and DLR turns into Kruger without the offense. Not attractive, but that kind of cost-controlled depth is super valuable in the NHL. Although, I'd have to imagine that McCarron would end up better than Boyle. Jury's out on Juulsen.

 

[Rebels57]

Did you see my earlier post? Even if none of the prospects hit, the trade would still be worth it. Let's say McCarron turns into Boyle, Juulsen turns into Carle and DLR turns into Kruger without the offense. Not attractive, but that kind of cost-controlled depth is super valuable in the NHL. Although, I'd have to imagine that McCarron would end up better than Boyle. Jury's out on Juulsen.

But you have other guys in the system that can fill those rolls.

One idea I like is using Simmonds in a deal where we add something else to get an even better top 6 forward or veteran top 4 dman to alleviate pressure from our young D prospects.

 

[achdumeingute]

But you have other guys in the system that can fill those rolls.

One idea I like is using Simmonds in a deal where we add something else to get an even better top 6 forward or veteran top 4 dman to alleviate pressure from our young D prospects.

we don't really have a "something else" to deal, besides maybe Schenn. We shouldn't be dealing our young 4 dmen, and that is all we have of significant value.

Who is going to deal this player to us? Anyone who is in a rebuild like us isn't going to deal a younger top 6/top 4 for an older Simmonds. They are going to keep their young talent, like us, and wait for the rebuild.

A team like MTL isnt going to give up better NHL assets to get more quantity, too close to winning now.

I just can't see how a move like this develops.

 

[bb12]

I dont really see the value in dealing anyone for D at this point. We need LW. Do we need defense right NOW yes, but overall no. Ghost in my eyes and im sure many others was not projected to be the best of our big 4/5. The rebuild back there has officially begun. Ghost is here to stay MDZ and Gudas are young and playing great. Next year i 100% expect at least 1 of the next 3 on this team replacing Schenn and more than likely see the departure of Shultz or Streit. That leaves in no order:

Shultz/Streit - XXX
MDZ - Gudas
Ghost - Sanhiem/Prov/Morin

Now that XXX could be 2 of our prospects or a free agent vet D on a 1 year deal. We wont have 6 guys under the age of 27, there needs to be some balance which Streit will probably be the one to provide for the next 2 seasons.

 

[deadhead]

There's this veteran defenseman, good size, mobile, Russian.
He might be a good fit with Ghost?
And another defenseman who is unmovable, but not a bad choice for a 3rd pair.

Morin and Hagg are playing together, if you bring them up as a pair, you can start Sanheim in the AHL and give Provorov and Myers another year in juniors and still have a solid defense.

The key is moving Schenn, Schultz and Streit, freeing up roster spots, PT and cap room.

 

[bb12]

There's this veteran defenseman, good size, mobile, Russian.
He might be a good fit with Ghost?
And another defenseman who is unmovable, but not a bad choice for a 3rd pair.

Morin and Hagg are playing together, if you bring them up as a pair, you can start Sanheim in the AHL and give Provorov and Myers another year in juniors and still have a solid defense.

The key is moving Schenn, Schultz and Streit, freeing up roster spots, PT and cap room.

Totatally forgot about Medvedev. Guess its because that stud Manning has been playing so much over him