Post-Game Talk: #24| FLYERS 4 at Penguins 5 | Mon. Nov. 27, 7:00 pm ET

[Beef Invictus]

To add: Actually, personnel did change. They got Flip, whose playstyle in transition happened to match what they had begun trying to do...and then they hired Knob, who has matching theories too.

It shows that there is some kind of thought grinding out in the organization's mind. The question is, who is responsible? It's the one thing I have which is reassuring (such a thing was nonexistent in the Berube years), but seeing how so many other decisions are just fetid turds, it's overshadowed.

 

[hatcher]

As does our 4th line. And increasingly, our 3rd line. Entering with possession is probably the ONLY thing Flip does consistently well, before sabotaging himself and the whole line later in his shift.

It isn't just personnel, either. There was a marked, noticeable shift in strategy in the latter half of the season last year. The personnel didn't suddenly change. What their coach had them trying to do did.

Entering the zone and doing nothing is what most of our players do and the board battles lost is very high. Pens won them in our end all night long.

 

[Jtown]

in hockey you are litearlly as good as your weakest link. Put macdonald with duncan keith, and guess what side of the ice puck carriers enter?

So if you are going to have mac on the ice , what better chance do you have of gettin gthe puck out of your own zone. him paired with Duncan Keith or him paired with rundblad?

 

[FLYguy3911]

johnson and barrie have most certainly been a pairing.

They have never played more than 70 5v5 minutes together in a season.

hint: RHD rarely play together because there are so few of them

I'm not saying that it improves their play , im saying it compliments him.

You are proving my point. If they don't improve their play are they really compliments?

If the puck was never in the dzone , erik karlsson would be the greatest dman of all time . But as goes hockey sometimes, the opposition gets the puck and enters your dzone. Lets not pretend that the skills set required to play each zone is the same. There are a plethora of things that need to be done on both ends of the ice. And because of that you see a blend of skills out there on the ice at one time. Its a popular strategy and I will not fault any coach who follows it

Well the puck does go into the DZ and Erik Karlsson is still one of the best defensemen of all time. The most important attribute for a defenseman is the ability to move the puck by skating or passing, so yes skills do overlap. Ghost has been the best puck mover on the team since he joined the squad 2 years ago and Sanheim has been a great puck mover at lower levels and is showing flashes of doing it in an NHL setting as well.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Entering the zone and doing nothing is what most of our players do and the board battles lost is very high. Pens won them in our end all night long.

I don't get what your point is. Entering the zone with possession rather than dumping it in and hoping to have the puck after fighting it out is how you avoid losing board battles.

 

[Tripod]

Brain fart....who was the 4th guy to hit the post?

Provy, Hagg, Martel, and ?????

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Patrick hit the crossbar.

 

[Jtown]

They have never played more than 70 5v5 minutes together in a season.

hint: RHD rarely play together because there are so few of them

You are proving my point. If they don't improve their play are they really compliments?

Well the puck does go into the DZ and Erik Karlsson is still one of the best defensemen of all time. The most important attribute for a defenseman is the ability to move the puck by skating or passing, so yes skills do overlap. Ghost has been the best puck mover on the team since he joined the squad 2 years ago and Sanheim has been a great puck mover at lower levels and is showing flashes of doing it in an NHL setting as well.

barrie and johnson. i am on the pipe. i take your word for it.

Erik karlsson , the dman who has never played any sort of significant time on the pk until last year? i have a hard time calling Karlsson great on defense when he clearly can't pk.

A true number 1 is your best dman in all situations. Very few exist today.

 

[deadhead]

The problem is to carry the puck out of the D-zone, you first have to gain possession of the puck.
Ideally, you want a big, physical D-man on each pair who can go into the corner, win battles, and get the puck to a more mobile partner who can then skate it out.
Even better, a big physical D-man who can get the puck and skate it out himself.

The Flyer problems in the D-zone often start when the puck is thrown in and they lose battles in the corners or along the boards, or fumble the pass, and I think a lot of this is inexperience, the young D-men panic a little, especially in the 3rd period and cough it up too often.

Size matters in the defensive zone when you're protecting a lead because the opposing team aggressively pinches and attacks the puck, and smaller D-men can be bumped off the puck or can't win battles for the puck. In normal play they won't take those sort of chances, so the Flyer defense looks better for the first couple periods. This is also why size matters on defense on the PK (whereas speed matters for forwards b/c they chase the puck so much), since the extra man will try to park in front of the net and an extra player will often desperately attack the puck in corners to prevent a clear.

Of course it's not just about size, it's also about "strong hands," Weal is small but good at puck possession, whereas Leier, who is about the same size, is easier to separate from the puck. Strong, quick hands allow you to compensate somewhat for size. They also help you around the opposing net, where things happen quickly and there is little room to maneuver.

 

[Jtown]

Getting possesion of the puck is more important for dmen than getting it out of the zone. Getting out of the zone is primarily a forward or center's job.

 

[Tripod]

Patrick hit the crossbar.

Thanks.....forgot about that wicked shot.

Nice to see Patrick and Martel get so close to scoring....then get 6 shifts combined in the 3rd period.

 

[FLYguy3911]

barrie and johnson. i am on the pipe. i take your word for it.

Erik karlsson , the dman who has never played any sort of significant time on the pk until last year? i have a hard time calling Karlsson great on defense when he clearly can't pk.

A true number 1 is your best dman in all situations. Very few exist today.

Playing on the penalty kill DOES NOT = being good defensively. See: Wayne Simmonds. Would you believe me if I told you Travis Sanheim has been on the ice for fewer shots and fewer scoring chances per minute on the PK than anyone else on the team? The kid that can't play a defense? It was the coach's decision, for one reason or another, to not play his best player, Karlsson on the PK. That shouldn't be held against him and it's certainly not an indictment on his ability.

Getting possesion of the puck is more important for dmen than getting it out of the zone. Getting out of the zone is primarily a forward or center's job.

How do forwards get the puck?

 

[Jtown]

penalty kill does not = being good defensively. explain.

 

[hatcher]

I don't get what your point is. Entering the zone with possession rather than dumping it in and hoping to have the puck after fighting it out is how you avoid losing board battles.

Pens dumped it in last night and owed our ass and skated it in and owed our ass. Either way we suck ass end of story and the kids are 3 to 4 yrs away including Provy which sucks since he and Patrick are the only two in the end that will make a huge diff so far in the drafting ranks. Morin will too when these cowards running the team stop going more soft. Pens are tough bastards and they hit all night.

 

[hatcher]

penalty kill does not = being good defensively. explain.

You played hockey right J town?

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'll explain when you tell me how forwards get the puck in the DZone.

 

[hatcher]

I'll explain when you tell me how forwards get the puck in the DZone.

Hound backchecking like Hossa. Playing the walls properly and being in the right position to receive a pass which most of our forwards are outside the dzone drips. Can't even listen to a coach these guys. D when pressured being able to win battle to make plays to the forwards helps. We lose most battle in the games.

 

[Tripod]

The problem is to carry the puck out of the D-zone, you first have to gain possession of the puck.
Ideally, you want a big, physical D-man on each pair who can go into the corner, win battles, and get the puck to a more mobile partner who can then skate it out.
Even better, a big physical D-man who can get the puck and skate it out himself.

The Flyer problems in the D-zone often start when the puck is thrown in and they lose battles in the corners or along the boards, or fumble the pass, and I think a lot of this is inexperience, the young D-men panic a little, especially in the 3rd period and cough it up too often.

Size matters in the defensive zone when you're protecting a lead because the opposing team aggressively pinches and attacks the puck, and smaller D-men can be bumped off the puck or can't win battles for the puck. In normal play they won't take those sort of chances, so the Flyer defense looks better for the first couple periods. This is also why size matters on defense on the PK (whereas speed matters for forwards b/c they chase the puck so much), since the extra man will try to park in front of the net and an extra player will often desperately attack the puck in corners to prevent a clear.

Of course it's not just about size, it's also about "strong hands," Weal is small but good at puck possession, whereas Leier, who is about the same size, is easier to separate from the puck. Strong, quick hands allow you to compensate somewhat for size. They also help you around the opposing net, where things happen quickly and there is little room to maneuver.

You blame EVERYTHING on youth, size and inexperience yet it's our big vets making the big f*** ups just as much if not more. After all, a bunch of the kids are benched in the 3rd period before the collapses happen.

Hell...Lehtera and Weise barely played in the 3rd period...7 shifts combined...yet still had more shifts than Patrick and Martel combined.

The point is, there is PLENTY of blame to go around. I hate how you always blame it on the youth. I also dislike how other ONLY blame it on our trash players. It's both. It's also our best players making mistakes. But at least they are producing more than they f*** up, others...not so much.

 

[Tripod]

Pens dumped it in last night and owed our ass and skated it in and owed our ass. Either way we suck ass end of story and the kids are 3 to 4 yrs away including Provy which sucks since he and Patrick are the only two in the end that will make a huge diff so far in the drafting ranks. Morin will too when these cowards running the team stop going more soft. Pens are tough bastards and they hit all night.

The Pens had 4 more hits than we did.

 

[hatcher]

You blame EVERYTHING on youth, size and inexperience yet it's our big vets making the big **** ups just as much if not more. After all, a bunch of the kids are benched in the 3rd period before the collapses happen.

Hell...Lehtera and Weise barely played in the 3rd period...7 shifts combined...yet still had more shifts than Patrick and Martel combined.

The point is, there is PLENTY of blame to go around. I hate how you always blame it on the youth. I also dislike how other ONLY blame it on our trash players. It's both. It's also our best players making mistakes. But at least they are producing more than they **** up, others...not so much.

Weise and Lethera barely played. The rooks aren't as good right now as people thought and its a small on the rush team which isn't that good a that either. Poor all the way around right now.

 

[Striiker]

5v5 defense =/= PKing

 

[hatcher]

The Pens had 4 more hits than we did.

There hits were rocking our guys. We maybe had 3 hits that mattered all game and you know that. Never win battle with thin skinny players trying to hit. Pens are way more gritty.

 

[Striiker]

What in the hell am I reading?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

What in the hell am I reading?

Alternative posts not based on reality.

 

[deadhead]

Our "trash" players are on the bottom of the roster, Lehtera and Weise rarely dress and only played 10 minutes, and as you pointed out, hardly saw the ice in the third period.

MacDonald has not been trash this year, he may have been a little rusty last night, but he has been our most consistent (not best or most talented) D-man this year.

The real problem is we don't have the 2nd and 3rd line guys who can give you steady play when needed, and the young defensemen, all of them, make too many mistakes. Time will solve the latter, new talent will solve the former.

The PK is a mystery, unless of course, VdV was the glue that held it together.
Because other than replace VdV and PEB with Leier and Laughton, what changes did we make?