23rd Overall - Conner Bleackley

[Chiarelli]

Hmmmmm...sorry, Nigel Dawes had one of the greatest performances in WJC history IIRC, he didn't really pan out in the pros. It's still just one tournament that holds way too much weight when evaluating prospects. Also, IIRC the WJC really hurt Sean Couturier's draft stock and really helped Jonathan Huberdeau's. Both players panned out just fine.

Not saying Hayton won't be a great player, by all accounts he's developing nicely, I'm just not ready to say that already looks like a great pick.

Hayton is trending up for sure. He improved in both the Ohl and world juniors since being drafted. He also fit a lot of the criteria we were talking about. There’s maybe one guy (Q Hughes) id take before him now with a year and a half of hindsight.

His floor is probably a solid two way 2nd line center now. He just captained a team to a gold medal.

On top of all that he was a fairly off the board pick (as krebs at 3-5 woulda been). Arizona looks genius now and likely got the best center of that draft.

 

[Chiarelli]

Also you bring up his injury like that’s a negative?

He played through said injury in a gold medal game and scored the tying goal. You’re making my rebuttal for me.

 

[Pokecheque]

Also you bring up his injury like that’s a negative?

He played through said injury in a gold medal game and scored the tying goal. You’re making my rebuttal for me.

Never said it was a negative at all, just saying he's not in the NHL right now because of it.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm just not convinced of Chayka's genius just yet. He sure as hell loves to make trades, but I still don't see a great core of talent in place for that team. I commend them for "going for it" just like I loved Jarmo doing something similar at last year's deadline. But I'm just not sure Chayka is the "boy genius" a lot of people tout him as.

And FTR I agree, the Hayton pick was a bit of a reach but not a massive one. He should be a perfectly fine franchise center. My concern there is that they're going to expect a franchise center, and like you said, he should be a very good 2nd line guy.

 

[cgf]

...is that a no?

 

[cgf]

Hayton is trending up for sure. He improved in both the Ohl and world juniors since being drafted. He also fit a lot of the criteria we were talking about. There’s maybe one guy (Q Hughes) id take before him now with a year and a half of hindsight.

His floor is probably a solid two way 2nd line center now. He just captained a team to a gold medal.

On top of all that he was a fairly off the board pick (as krebs at 3-5 woulda been). Arizona looks genius now and likely got the best center of that draft.

Hayton's more skilled than Krebs; so I do think that a 50 point two-way C with a few peak seasons pushing 60, is a realistic bar for him to clear...unlike Krebs...though TBH I still need to see how Hayton's offense translates to the higher levels -- where almost everyone has plus-IQ and either skating or size -- as well, before I'm ready to hype that pick

I'm just not convinced of Chayka's genius just yet. He sure as hell loves to make trades, but I still don't see a great core of talent in place for that team. I commend them for "going for it" just like I loved Jarmo doing something similar at last year's deadline. But I'm just not sure Chayka is the "boy genius" a lot of people tout him as.

And FTR I agree, the Hayton pick was a bit of a reach but not a massive one. He should be a perfectly fine franchise center. My concern there is that they're going to expect a franchise center, and like you said, he should be a very good 2nd line guy.

Hayton certainly does seem to have a bit of Koivu/J.Staal to his skillset. Which is why I need to see how his skill translates before I'm ready to hype him as a great pick.

 

[cgf]

I'm just not convinced of Chayka's genius just yet. He sure as hell loves to make trades, but I still don't see a great core of talent in place for that team. I commend them for "going for it" just like I loved Jarmo doing something similar at last year's deadline. But I'm just not sure Chayka is the "boy genius" a lot of people tout him as.

And FTR I agree, the Hayton pick was a bit of a reach but not a massive one. He should be a perfectly fine franchise center. My concern there is that they're going to expect a franchise center, and like you said, he should be a very good 2nd line guy.

See I think Jarmo's play made a lot more sense than Chayka "going for it" this year. Jarmo had that young core to retool around when everyone dipped, so I totally get taking the best team in franchise history and putting them in the best position to set a new highwater mark before diving into that retool...kinda like the Raptors did when they got Kawhi; they knew that they were approaching a period of intensive turn-over, so they gave themselves the best shot they could at setting a new franchise high-point before beginning the hunt for a new superstar to slide in alongside their great young supporting cast.

Because the Yotes don't have that same sort of young core to do damage with, I don't see the same justifications applying. IMO they're just being opportunistic because of how open their division is & the very solid team that they have. I commend the aggressiveness & the price he ended up paying for Hall, but I don't think that's a move he makes if their division weren't wide open for them...like Jarmo did last year in that bloodbath of a WC race.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

His skating is below average for his size, or rather his quickness is. His skating may be technically perfect for all I know, but he just doesn't move around quickly enough to get away with being undersized in the NHL. Getting bigger & even slower would push him in the wrong direction. It's his lack of shiftiness or the ability to create space, that is killing him even more than getting pushed around.

Girard gets pushed around too, so do Gaudreau & Cale, but they are still effectiveness because they are quick & shifty. Jost doesn't have the frame to ever push guys around, but he could maybe get shifty enough to create space for himself in that way...even if he'll never skate as well as the others smurfs I've mentioned.

Every thread is a Jost thread.

 

[cgf]

Every thread is a Jost thread.

I dunno about all of you, but I'm just here to indulge my inner puck-bunny

 

[Chiarelli]

I'm just not convinced of Chayka's genius just yet. He sure as hell loves to make trades, but I still don't see a great core of talent in place for that team. I commend them for "going for it" just like I loved Jarmo doing something similar at last year's deadline. But I'm just not sure Chayka is the "boy genius" a lot of people tout him as.

And FTR I agree, the Hayton pick was a bit of a reach but not a massive one. He should be a perfectly fine franchise center. My concern there is that they're going to expect a franchise center, and like you said, he should be a very good 2nd line guy.

I agree Chayka isn’t anything special he has hits and misses like anyone.

The one thing I like is he sticks to his guns and isn’t afraid of the backlash of going against the grain. Although, that’s likely a lot easier to do in Arizona than say philly where a whole watch party curses your name for taking Harley over caufield

 

[El Travo]

I agree Chayka isn’t anything special he has hits and misses like anyone.

The one thing I like is he sticks to his guns and isn’t afraid of the backlash of going against the grain. Although, that’s likely a lot easier to do in Arizona than say philly where a whole watch party curses your name for taking Harley over caufield

I think too many people jumped the gun when it came to Chayka. Within his first couple months people were hailing him as some sort of GM savant.

 

[henchman21]

Hayton wasn't as off the board as people think... Habs had him #4, Arizona's scouts had him at #4 (Chayka had him at #3 and would have picked Hayton over Brady who was #3 on the scouts' list), and it is rumored the Hawks and Canucks both had him top 5. Ottawa was really the only team cool on Hayton in the top 8. Detroit didn't even expect Hayton to be there for them (also didn't expect Zadina).

 

[cgf]

Hayton wasn't as off the board as people think... Habs had him #4, Arizona's scouts had him at #4 (Chayka had him at #3 and would have picked Hayton over Brady who was #3 on the scouts' list), and it is rumored the Hawks and Canucks both had him top 5. Ottawa was really the only team cool on Hayton in the top 8. Detroit didn't even expect Hayton to be there for them (also didn't expect Zadina).

Damn. I remember him solidifying himself in the top 10, but I didn't realize that he was that high for that many teams. Makes sense though, he does check all of the boxes that GMs love.

 

[McMetal]

The thing I disliked about the Hayton pick for Arizona is that it felt too much like a "safe" pick for a guy with a high floor, and that's not what the Yotes need. Their biggest weakness by far is a lack of high end, game breaking talent, which is why they were in on Hall. Hayton just doesn't fit that bill, and given that they were picking at five I would have liked them to swing for a real game changer there.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think too many people jumped the gun when it came to Chayka. Within his first couple months people were hailing him as some sort of GM savant.

It really feels like he taught the rest of the league how to weaponize cap space, and he did make a very savvy move via the Bleackley compensatory pick and taking on Datsyuk's dead money to grab Chychrun when no one was looking, so I think people freaked out after that thinking he was the next Theo Epstein.

 

[McMetal]

It really feels like he taught the rest of the league how to weaponize cap space, and he did make a very savvy move via the Bleackley compensatory pick and taking on Datsyuk's dead money to grab Chychrun when no one was looking, so I think people freaked out after that thinking he was the next Theo Epstein.

I think he's near the top of the league in terms of strategy, but ultimately I think he's failing to build a contender because he doesn't have a real plan for what sort of team he is trying to build. That's the danger of analytics guys controlling all the levers. He wins trades, drafts cleverly, and weaponizes cap space, but the team itself is really just a collection of good-but-not-great players who don't fit together in any meaningful way. He's not building a hockey team so much as just a bunch of guys on skates.

If he was clearly building a team based on puck possession, or big bodies, or speed/skill, I would think more highly of him. But he doesn't seem to have a plan beyond being clever, and that won't ever win him any championships.

 

[Murzu]

Kill this thread with fire, I don't want to see Conner Bleackley's name.

 

[El Travo]

Kill this thread with fire, I don't want to see Conner Bleackley's name.

 

[Murzu]

I dislike both of you.

 

[VikingAv]

Hayton wasn't as off the board as people think... Habs had him #4, Arizona's scouts had him at #4 (Chayka had him at #3 and would have picked Hayton over Brady who was #3 on the scouts' list), and it is rumored the Hawks and Canucks both had him top 5. Ottawa was really the only team cool on Hayton in the top 8. Detroit didn't even expect Hayton to be there for them (also didn't expect Zadina).

Where is this rumor from? It just seems very strange considering Bowman's reaction to that pick on the Hawks draft day video

 

[henchman21]

Where is this rumor from? It just seems very strange considering Bowman's reaction to that pick on the Hawks draft day video

It’s been around for a while. Even made it into an athletic article recently.

 

[Eltuna]

Where is this rumor from? It just seems very strange considering Bowman's reaction to that pick on the Hawks draft day video

The post was prompted by an athletic article recently about how Hughes ended up in Vancouver that gave a lot of inside information on teams draft boards. Hayton for me is the most surprising draftee of the last decade when it comes it to the disconnect between fans/internet scouts and teams/actual scouts. He seemed to have come out of nowhere as a top 5 pick but a lot of teams really valued him highly.

With hindsight a lot of people are saying it made sense as teams love players like him but at the time no one was talking about it. If you go back and read the Avs forum from right before the draft there was not one mention of him going top 5 (even top 10 was scoffed at) and was actually a lot of talk of hoping he might slide a little bit to get to 16th. He was one of the more talked about players on this board. He was generally thought of as a 12-16 kind of guy by fans but teams clearly thought a lot more of him, he almost went 3rd to Montreal.

 

[VikingAv]

It’s been around for a while. Even made it into an athletic article recently.

The post was prompted by an athletic article recently about how Hughes ended up in Vancouver that gave a lot of inside information on teams draft boards. Hayton for me is the most surprising draftee of the last decade when it comes it to the disconnect between fans/internet scouts and teams/actual scouts. He seemed to have come out of nowhere as a top 5 pick but a lot of teams really valued him highly.

Thanks for the response, guys. I just read the article about Hughes. The author has a real source on those Arizona rankings, but nothing on his claim about the Blackhawks. I just don't see how Bowman and his Head scout's reaction is one of someone who had Hayton ranked high. Looks to me like they were surprised in a way that they had him considerably lower ranked. (Starts at ~2:25)

 

[PuckLife]

Thanks for the response, guys. I just read the article about Hughes. The author has a real source on those Arizona rankings, but nothing on his claim about the Blackhawks. I just don't see how Bowman and his Head scout's reaction is one of someone who had Hayton ranked high. Looks to me like they were surprised in a way that they had him considerably lower ranked. (Starts at ~2:25)

My take on this video is they reacted because Hayton was their guy. I think there was a lot of secrecy by the teams zoning in on him - he was buried behind a lot of good vets that year, so I believe teams were hoping they were the only ones to discover him. I’m from the Soo and can tell you based on small town sightings, that Chicago did a deep dive on Hayton. Even the Brass was in town to take him for dinner.

 

[Balthazar]

The post was prompted by an athletic article recently about how Hughes ended up in Vancouver that gave a lot of inside information on teams draft boards. Hayton for me is the most surprising draftee of the last decade when it comes it to the disconnect between fans/internet scouts and teams/actual scouts. He seemed to have come out of nowhere as a top 5 pick but a lot of teams really valued him highly.

With hindsight a lot of people are saying it made sense as teams love players like him but at the time no one was talking about it. If you go back and read the Avs forum from right before the draft there was not one mention of him going top 5 (even top 10 was scoffed at) and was actually a lot of talk of hoping he might slide a little bit to get to 16th. He was one of the more talked about players on this board. He was generally thought of as a 12-16 kind of guy by fans but teams clearly thought a lot more of him, he almost went 3rd to Montreal.

There was a serious lack of top center in that draft which is why Hayton and Kotkaniemi were higher on GM lists than they probably should have been. Fans and pre-draft rankings don't look at position like GM's do.