Post-Game Talk: #22: Flyers at Islanders, November 25, 2015

[Garbage Goal]

The jury is definitely out on Laughton.

Certainly not playing like a great 3c now, and I'm a little less confident the upside is there than I was in September.

Agreed.

Remember what most of us thought with Laughton? We thought that if he could come in and take on the defensive role, that would free up Couts off his leash. But that has not happened.

But Laughton also has not taken the role of scoring C either. And thar is concerning. I know he has not been getting the icetime or often plays with non- trusted wingers, but he needs to do more.

That's our issue at C. We have 1sciribg C, 1 shutdiwn, and then really 2 4th line C. Change that 2nd 2th line C into a scoring C and it makes a big difference. But for sure Hakstol's coaching is not allowing this either. Our 4th line plays too much....essentially playing as our 3rd line.

We only ice 1 line who's role it is to score. Shocking that we are struggling to score.

I haven't watched the last couple games granted, because what's the point anymore really especially when it's this predictable and boring, but Laughton has better speed and scoring touch than a 4th liner. Face-off ability and defensive ability tend to grow as players get more games under their belts, as seasons progress. He's a rookie technically or at least close to it. Makes sense a lot of his game wouldn't be refined.

I was much, much lower on Laughton than most people here (it's beyond me how he got so high in our board prospect rankings), but it's way too early to be calling him a 4th liner. He hasn't played badly, he hasn't been getting much opportunity with minutes or linemates, and something to keep in mind with every player this year is that this whole team looks like ****. There's no synergy because our wingers are mostly crap, our D is crap, and we have a guy with a multi-million dollar cap hit on permanent healthy scratch because he manages to torpedo the lineup completely on his own presence in it. There's a reason the big names on Cup winners tend to get way overrated, it's because great teams make it's components look better than they are and terrible teams makes it's components look worse than they are.

Jury is still out, but I don't see a reason to be labelling Laughton as less than a 3rd line center so far. We could use a 2C with better scoring capability and bump down Couturier/Laughton, but that wouldn't be needed whatsoever if our wingers and D were worth a damn. Our centers have to carry the lineup because they're the only part of the team outside the goalie that can carry this lineup, but in a team that's actually competent you wouldn't need them to carry everything. We have a great two-way lineup at center when healthy, they just have zero help whatsoever and the only reason Giroux can produce is because he's an elite talent, consistently a top five player league-wide.

 

[Striiker]

No, Suchy, it's no gimmick. Is it so hard to believe there is a Brandon Manning fan among the group? If you ask me, he should have more support than just Boxcar.

I have to believe the Russian will be back soon. I wouldn't be surprised if ManDog sits one or two, even though I still think Schultz needs to rest himself for a game.

Think of it like this, you might be the only person who likes him out of this entire forum.

That means that 99% of us are in agreement that he's terrible.

With the amount of arguing that goes on around here anyrhing where even 75% of people agree is an incredibly rare sight.

We've had ~10 page arguments about mustard and mayonnaise for ****s sake.

The fact that Manning can unite us with his sucking is a real clear sign that somethings wrong with him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

For reference we had more people defending Vinny last year.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

i feel like i should bring up an old Leighton thread..

still a fan... woot

 

[Tripod]

At least this board is consistent.

It's always the same people saying the same incorrect things in the same silly ways and you can predict exactly what their post will be about the second you see their name.

Doing my best to not get baited. Just have to keep reminding myself that it's not my responsibility to stop people from saying stupid ****.

Then they claim that because they are not "sheep following the masses", they are somehow correbt in what they say.

Over time, you can see who actaully has played hockey at higher levels and understands the game a whole.

But people certainly have lots to complain about...3 regulation wins so far...all shutouts.

 

[Striiker]

Then they claim that because they are not "sheep following the masses", they are somehow correbt in what they say.

Over time, you can see who actaully has played hockey at higher levels and understands the game a whole.

But people certainly have lots to complain about...3 regulation wins so far...all shutouts.

Well that's exactly it, there's so many legitmate things to complain about, why fabricate new things that don't make sense?

 

[TCTC]

I haven't watched the last couple games granted, because what's the point anymore really especially when it's this predictable and boring, but Laughton has better speed and scoring touch than a 4th liner. Face-off ability and defensive ability tend to grow as players get more games under their belts, as seasons progress. He's a rookie technically or at least close to it. Makes sense a lot of his game wouldn't be refined.

I was much, much lower on Laughton than most people here (it's beyond me how he got so high in our board prospect rankings), but it's way too early to be calling him a 4th liner. He hasn't played badly, he hasn't been getting much opportunity with minutes or linemates, and something to keep in mind with every player this year is that this whole team looks like ****. There's no synergy because our wingers are mostly crap, our D is crap, and we have a guy with a multi-million dollar cap hit on permanent healthy scratch because he manages to torpedo the lineup completely on his own presence in it. There's a reason the big names on Cup winners tend to get way overrated, it's because great teams make it's components look better than they are and terrible teams makes it's components look worse than they are.

Jury is still out, but I don't see a reason to be labelling Laughton as less than a 3rd line center so far. We could use a 2C with better scoring capability and bump down Couturier/Laughton, but that wouldn't be needed whatsoever if our wingers and D were worth a damn. Our centers have to carry the lineup because they're the only part of the team outside the goalie that can carry this lineup, but in a team that's actually competent you wouldn't need them to carry everything. We have a great two-way lineup at center when healthy, they just have zero help whatsoever and the only reason Giroux can produce is because he's an elite talent, consistently a top five player league-wide.

Exactly. I don't think Laughton deserves to be criticized yet. He constantly gets the most unreliable wingers of all our centers and as a consequence minimal ice time.
I think he actually was pretty good in the first few games of the season before Coots and Bellemare were injured and every momentum was gone.
His line with Schenn and Umberger was producing and having good chemistry.

 

[Tripod]

I haven't watched the last couple games granted, because what's the point anymore really especially when it's this predictable and boring, but Laughton has better speed and scoring touch than a 4th liner. Face-off ability and defensive ability tend to grow as players get more games under their belts, as seasons progress. He's a rookie technically or at least close to it. Makes sense a lot of his game wouldn't be refined.

I was much, much lower on Laughton than most people here (it's beyond me how he got so high in our board prospect rankings), but it's way too early to be calling him a 4th liner. He hasn't played badly, he hasn't been getting much opportunity with minutes or linemates, and something to keep in mind with every player this year is that this whole team looks like ****. There's no synergy because our wingers are mostly crap, our D is crap, and we have a guy with a multi-million dollar cap hit on permanent healthy scratch because he manages to torpedo the lineup completely on his own presence in it. There's a reason the big names on Cup winners tend to get way overrated, it's because great teams make it's components look better than they are and terrible teams makes it's components look worse than they are.

Jury is still out, but I don't see a reason to be labelling Laughton as less than a 3rd line center so far. We could use a 2C with better scoring capability and bump down Couturier/Laughton, but that wouldn't be needed whatsoever if our wingers and D were worth a damn. Our centers have to carry the lineup because they're the only part of the team outside the goalie that can carry this lineup, but in a team that's actually competent you wouldn't need them to carry everything. We have a great two-way lineup at center when healthy, they just have zero help whatsoever and the only reason Giroux can produce is because he's an elite talent, consistently a top five player league-wide.

GG, maybe you missunderstood or I was not clear enough.

I was not calling Laughton a 4th line C. I was saying that due to his usage, his wingers that the coach doesn't trust, and his icetime, he was being used like a 4th line C.

Typically, team have:
Scoring C
2nd Scoring C
Shutdown C
2nd shutdown/physical/ crash and bang/Faceoff C

Giroux is the 1st
Couts is the 3rd...but still expected to be the 2nd at the same time
Belle would be the 4th line C

Laughton SHOULD slot into the scoring C, or be the shutdown C and let Couts focus on offense more. But because Laughton has not taken either role, that burden is on the other 3 centers.

And I am not 100% blaming Laughton because he has not been put into a position to produe a lot because he doesn't get the minutes that a scoring C would.

I was just pointing out that Laughton has not filled either role that we expected when drafted...scoring C or shutdown role.

That is why I have said I would like to see Laughton and Voracek together on the 2nd line as a scoring line. EXPECT him to produce in that situation.

Him not having a defined role pushes the burden to everyone else. And again, a big part of it is coaching and opportunity. He is not being put into a position to succeed.

Sorry if it seemed I was calling hima 4th line C with no upside. Not at all. I just want him put into one of those 2 roles...shutdown or scoring C and then pair him with wingers AND icetime to help make it happen.

 

[achdumeingute]

I haven't watched the last couple games granted, because what's the point anymore really especially when it's this predictable and boring, but Laughton has better speed and scoring touch than a 4th liner. Face-off ability and defensive ability tend to grow as players get more games under their belts, as seasons progress. He's a rookie technically or at least close to it. Makes sense a lot of his game wouldn't be refined.

I was much, much lower on Laughton than most people here (it's beyond me how he got so high in our board prospect rankings), but it's way too early to be calling him a 4th liner. He hasn't played badly, he hasn't been getting much opportunity with minutes or linemates, and something to keep in mind with every player this year is that this whole team looks like ****. There's no synergy because our wingers are mostly crap, our D is crap, and we have a guy with a multi-million dollar cap hit on permanent healthy scratch because he manages to torpedo the lineup completely on his own presence in it. There's a reason the big names on Cup winners tend to get way overrated, it's because great teams make it's components look better than they are and terrible teams makes it's components look worse than they are.

Jury is still out, but I don't see a reason to be labelling Laughton as less than a 3rd line center so far. We could use a 2C with better scoring capability and bump down Couturier/Laughton, but that wouldn't be needed whatsoever if our wingers and D were worth a damn. Our centers have to carry the lineup because they're the only part of the team outside the goalie that can carry this lineup, but in a team that's actually competent you wouldn't need them to carry everything. We have a great two-way lineup at center when healthy, they just have zero help whatsoever and the only reason Giroux can produce is because he's an elite talent, consistently a top five player league-wide.

Nah, players are complete pictures after about 30 nhl games.

Nah, J/K. I agree. I actually think Laughton will be better than Schenn and Couturier as a goal scorer at some point in the future.

 

[Delete99991]

One thing I'm disappointed in with Laughton is the almost complete absence of any physicality from him.

Might just have been my own misunderstanding of his rep coming out of junior.

 

[TheLegendkiller]

One thing I'm disappointed in with Laughton is the almost complete absence of any physicality from him.

Might just have been my own misunderstanding of his rep coming out of junior.

Might not be strong enough yet. Or might not believe he is.

 

[Striiker]

He was one of our better players at the start of the year when he was with real linemates and getting decent icetime. Not surprising that his play would suffer when playing far less and with players like Gagner.

Not sure why a stretch of lesser play makes people competely forget solid play not so long ago. Short term memories on this board. If you want to be annoyed at something be annoyed that Hakstol isn't using him like he should. Put Voracek and Laughton together instead of wasting Voracek with VV and Bellemare and wasting Laughton with Gagner.

 

[Garbage Goal]

GG, maybe you missunderstood or I was not clear enough.

I was not calling Laughton a 4th line C. I was saying that due to his usage, his wingers that the coach doesn't trust, and his icetime, he was being used like a 4th line C.

Typically, team have:
Scoring C
2nd Scoring C
Shutdown C
2nd shutdown/physical/ crash and bang/Faceoff C

Giroux is the 1st
Couts is the 3rd...but still expected to be the 2nd at the same time
Belle would be the 4th line C

Laughton SHOULD slot into the scoring C, or be the shutdown C and let Couts focus on offense more. But because Laughton has not taken either role, that burden is on the other 3 centers.

And I am not 100% blaming Laughton because he has not been put into a position to produe a lot because he doesn't get the minutes that a scoring C would.

I was just pointing out that Laughton has not filled either role that we expected when drafted...scoring C or shutdown role.

That is why I have said I would like to see Laughton and Voracek together on the 2nd line as a scoring line. EXPECT him to produce in that situation.

Him not having a defined role pushes the burden to everyone else. And again, a big part of it is coaching and opportunity. He is not being put into a position to succeed.

Sorry if it seemed I was calling hima 4th line C with no upside. Not at all. I just want him put into one of those 2 roles...shutdown or scoring C and then pair him with wingers AND icetime to help make it happen.

He was one of our better players at the start of the year when he was with real linemates and getting decent icetime. Not surprising that his play would suffer when playing far less and with players like Gagner.

Not sure why a stretch of lesser play makes people competely forget solid play not so long ago. Short term memories on this board. If you want to be annoyed at something be annoyed that Hakstol isn't using him like he should. Put Voracek and Laughton together instead of wasting Voracek with VV and Bellemare and wasting Laughton with Gagner.

The thing is, like I said, we don't have wingers. Our wingers, collectively, are almost as bad as our D right now I think. If Voracek were producing, sure, it would be different but he isn't and in the end he's one of eight wingers. Right now, I'd say there's only two wingers out of eight that can actually be high impact players at ES, which are Voracek and Schenn. The former is falling to Earth hard and having seriously bad luck, the latter we don't even have to elaborate on due to what his reputation already is. There's no winger options that matter because we only have a couple who are worth much at ES and even if they weren't struggling, putting one like Voracek with Laughton means putting one like Read or Gagner with Couturier or Giroux. Doesn't matter how you shuffle it around, it's naturally ugly and even uglier than it naturally should be with how disappointing Voracek has been.

 

[Tripod]

The thing is, like I said, we don't have wingers. Our wingers, collectively, are almost as bad as our D right now I think. If Voracek were producing, sure, it would be different but he isn't and in the end he's one of eight wingers. Right now, I'd say there's only two wingers out of eight that can actually be high impact players at ES, which are Voracek and Schenn. The former is falling to Earth hard and having seriously bad luck, the latter we don't even have to elaborate on due to what his reputation already is. There's no winger options that matter because we only have a couple who are worth much at ES and even if they weren't struggling, putting one like Voracek with Laughton means putting one like Read or Gagner with Couturier or Giroux. Doesn't matter how you shuffle it around, it's naturally ugly and even uglier than it naturally should be with how disappointing Voracek has been.

I agree with this....and certainly think adding forwards at the draft will be a priority.

But I also look at it that Hakstol has not tried everything to TRY and make it work.

Sticking Jake with Belle and VDV is just dumb. They have 4 points combined. They SHOULD be our 4th liners getting the worst minutes. Then add in that Jake should get offensive starts, and they should not.

Not playing Laughton and Leier who can both skate AND add some offense is dumb. Hakstol is only trying to set up lines to prevent goals, not score any.

As I said earlier, we currently only have 1 line that is EXPECTED to score. Everyone's else's job is to prevent them. We need better balance.

 

[Garbage Goal]

I agree with this....and certainly think adding forwards at the draft will be a priority.

But I also look at it that Hakstol has not tried everything to TRY and make it work.

Sticking Jake with Belle and VDV is just dumb. They have 4 points combined. They SHOULD be our 4th liners getting the worst minutes. Then add in that Jake should get offensive starts, and they should not.

Not playing Laughton and Leier who can both skate AND add some offense is dumb. Hakstol is only trying to set up lines to prevent goals, not score any.

As I said earlier, we currently only have 1 line that is EXPECTED to score. Everyone's else's job is to prevent them. We need better balance.

I agree Hakstol's lineup decisions are questionable mostly because he's doing absolutely the last thing he should do short of playing Lecavalier, which is playing Voracek with our two lowest tier forwards and playing Manning over Medvedev. If he were doing anything other than that though, literally playing Voracek on any other line, it would just be shuffling deck chairs. Which he should try that specific shuffling at least once, but in the end the wingers on the top three lines are just deck chairs at this point. For whatever reason Hakstol picked the one line worse than deck chairs for a guy like Voracek.

 

[klutch]

One thing is for sure, we have the worst puck movement\transition in the NHL. I think the whole locker room is frustrated. The rut they are in is DEEP. Something has to give sooner or later. As long a G makes another great season to add to his list, I could care less.

Still trying to stay optimistic with Hak, but some of lines are mind boggling. People are already comparing him to Chip Kelly. The difference is, chip got to move and pick his players. Hak and Hex get stuck with a load of ****, zero cap space, and bad contracts. As much as I love to see the flyers win, I'm finally accepting the situation. Thanks homer.

 

[Delete99991]

He was one of our better players at the start of the year when he was with real linemates and getting decent icetime. Not surprising that his play would suffer when playing far less and with players like Gagner.

Not sure why a stretch of lesser play makes people competely forget solid play not so long ago. Short term memories on this board. If you want to be annoyed at something be annoyed that Hakstol isn't using him like he should. Put Voracek and Laughton together instead of wasting Voracek with VV and Bellemare and wasting Laughton with Gagner.

Even then his flashes tended to only last one rush or one shift.

Need him to put together entire games where he's a presence, then at some point strings of games. Hasn't happened yet.

 

[2Olson]

isles fan here coming in peace.

watched small bits of the game and loved the small highlights i saw of ghost, although they were only offensive clips.

been a fan of him for a while now, just wondering how he's done in his own end this year.

thanks fellas

 

[Delete99991]

So-so, about what was expected.

He's not bad but gets lost in traffic sometimes.

Most here will mention that he's paired with the worst defenseman in the galaxy, so it's hard to really gauge whether he's a liability on his own.

 

[renberg]

One thing is for sure, we have the worst puck movement\transition in the NHL. I think the whole locker room is frustrated. The rut they are in is DEEP. Something has to give sooner or later. As long a G makes another great season to add to his list, I could care less.

Still trying to stay optimistic with Hak, but some of lines are mind boggling. People are already comparing him to Chip Kelly. The difference is, chip got to move and pick his players. Hak and Hex get stuck with a load of ****, zero cap space, and bad contracts. As much as I love to see the flyers win, I'm finally accepting the situation. Thanks homer.

We all know that probably half of the defensemen will be gone by July and a couple more by the next year. Hextall has to be showcasing the lion's share of forwards. This season doesn't count for the Flyers. Its all for the development of certain players; to see who can play, and if they can, with whom.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

need to have 6 guys like Gudas. who needs puck movers.
big hits win games man.

 

[deadhead]

need to have 6 guys like Gudas. who needs puck movers.
big hits win games man.

You do need one or two like Gudas.
He's not a bad skater, can pass out of the zone, gets the puck on net at a reasonable rate (much better than Schultz or Schenn), hits everything that moves and doesn't take stupid penalties.

He adds the toughness that a Rinaldo was supposed to bring without the downside, and you need to have some edge on your team.

Is he ever going to be a top 4 D guy?
Nah. But he could be a solid third pair guy for a decade.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Gudas is not a good defender. he is a good hitter. I will give him that. He is a pretty underwhelming player IMO. But his cap hit is fine for what he brings. He is a cheaper version of Luke Schenn.

 

[Tripod]

Gudas is not a good defender. he is a good hitter. I will give him that. He is a pretty underwhelming player IMO. But his cap hit is fine for what he brings. He is a cheaper version of Luke Schenn.

And next year, Morin could be a cheaper and better version of Gudas.