OT: 2024 Washington Commanders off-season thread: change we can believe in!

[ynotcaps]

For those that like to know things, the Commies are in fact meeting with Maye on a top 30 visit. Daniels, Maye and Penix.

I'll get excited if we hearing about them interviewing any of the top OTs -- it'll at least make me feel like the dream trade-back-in-and-up is still worth clinging to.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

NFL executives, scouts rank draft's top QBs: 'He scares the hell out of me' — The Athletic

Nearly 20 sources around the league gave their thoughts on the top passers in this year's draft class.

apple.news

 

[kicksavedave]

NFL executives, scouts rank draft's top QBs: 'He scares the hell out of me' — The Athletic

Nearly 20 sources around the league gave their thoughts on the top passers in this year's draft class.

apple.news

Can you paste the cliff notes, cant read The Athletic.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Can you paste the cliff notes, cant read The Athletic.

Seventeen sources shared their takes on the top passing prospects in this year’s draft. This combined ranking used a 5-3-2-1 scoring system, with first-place votes in parentheses. Our group:


Two active general managers
Three personnel executives
Three scouts
One assistant/QBs coach
Three former general managers
One ex-head coach
Four former players-turned-analysts, including two ex-quarterbacks

Other sources discussed the prospects but declined a rank order. The first-round answer key will be revealed when the draft commences April 25. The conjecture over which teams fared best will have only just begun.

1. Caleb Williams, USC — 78 points (14 first-place votes)
2. Jayden Daniels, LSU — 50 (3)

Assistant coach: Daniels is so good. … He is so much better than Maye and McCarthy. It’s not even close. Daniels can play NFL football right now.

Scout 2: Jayden probably made more progress than any quarterback coming out in the last five or six years. He can anticipate, make all the throws and is an explosive athlete. (As a scrambler), he’s not Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick. His ability to process (pre-snap) has improved as a passer, which is hard to do in one year. We know he started working with (virtual reality) this season. Got those VR reps, and that’s when he took off.

Scout 1: High upside but has a ton of room (to grow). It will take a couple of years, and the offense has to be tailored (to him). It’s going to be some wow but some ugly (plays). A lot like Justin Fields.

Former head coach: Jayden is QB2. He can start immediately, but he better learn to protect himself or he’ll be in the cold tub often.

Personnel executive 1: He could end up being the best one. Good athlete and arm talent. I think he sees it and can process. Big drop-off after him and Williams.

3. Drake Maye, North Carolina — 24

Current GM: People are going to pick Maye apart. If he ends up being the best of the group, it won’t shock me. He is made of the right stuff.

Simms: If you watch 20 throws, you’ll see good throws. Then … the ball is all over the place. The decision-making can be all over the place, and the pocket presence is all over the place, let alone some mechanical flaws in how he throws the football. It (was) confirmed to me in his pro day, (which) was underwhelming. … He’s got all the size. He’s pretty athletic when he runs. I always hear (Maye is) like Justin Herbert coming out or Josh Allen, and my brain wants to explode.

Scout 1: Maye reminds me a lot of Herbert.

Assistant coach: Maye is Herbert light. Take everything Herbert does and make it less. They’ll be compared (because of the prototype size), but there’s no comparison. I like Maye, but when I see the amount of work it will take to have him reach his potential, we’ll be fired first.

Personnel executive 1: He scares the hell out of me. Longer thrower with a big arm but not quick release. Nothing feels like it happens in rhythm, and accuracy is average. Needs a year on the bench.

Former GM: He has accuracy you can’t teach and is only scratching the surface with his upside while he physically matures. Wait for years two and three. If he progresses, he can end up like Troy Aikman.

4 JJM, 5 Penix, 6 Nix….

 

[Roric]

Listening to Sheehan and it sounds to me like the pick is gonna be Daniels. There is just way too much smoke. Every coach/exec they're talking to says its gonna be Daniels. Schefter, Standig, Keim etc.

 

[Ridley Simon]

In the end, I’m just fine w whomever, as long as it’s Peters who is actually making the pick.

Which, from all I can tell (which obv isn’t all THAT much), it is certainly Peters making the pick.

I started a Maye guy, moved over to JJ McC as things progressed during the course of the holidays, and have also come to admire Daniels and all he seems to entail.

I’ve liked all 3, and I obviously like Williams too. None of them seem “stupid” or a “waste” of a pick. Not from what I can tell.

Net net — Maye could flop. As has been regurgitated here, he’s the seemingly most likely to fall apart.

Daniels could be a flash in the pan. He looks tremendous. He’s got all the tools, and has terrific tape. However can he be a true pocket passer, if need be (meaning, he loses his high end speed, like a few QB’s have over the past 10-15yrs)?

McCarthy might not mature any further — that’s the main issue here. He’s not Maye in the “prototypical” build and size (body AND arm), and he’s been insulated in Michigan’s run first offense. Both good and bad (insulated). So he’s least accomplished, by a lot. But he’s also the one who “seems” to be the best leader. Which is obv subjective. He also has the best mechanics, IMO. (Again, somewhat subjective).

I simply cannot wait to see how this all unfolds.

 

[Roric]

@Ridley Simon
What if JJ comes in and just kills it

 

[kicksavedave]

Seventeen sources shared their takes on the top passing prospects in this year’s draft. This combined ranking used a 5-3-2-1 scoring system, with first-place votes in parentheses. Our group:


Two active general managers
Three personnel executives
Three scouts
One assistant/QBs coach
Three former general managers
One ex-head coach
Four former players-turned-analysts, including two ex-quarterbacks

Other sources discussed the prospects but declined a rank order. The first-round answer key will be revealed when the draft commences April 25. The conjecture over which teams fared best will have only just begun.

1. Caleb Williams, USC — 78 points (14 first-place votes)
2. Jayden Daniels, LSU — 50 (3)

Assistant coach: Daniels is so good. … He is so much better than Maye and McCarthy. It’s not even close. Daniels can play NFL football right now.

Scout 2: Jayden probably made more progress than any quarterback coming out in the last five or six years. He can anticipate, make all the throws and is an explosive athlete. (As a scrambler), he’s not Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick. His ability to process (pre-snap) has improved as a passer, which is hard to do in one year. We know he started working with (virtual reality) this season. Got those VR reps, and that’s when he took off.

Scout 1: High upside but has a ton of room (to grow). It will take a couple of years, and the offense has to be tailored (to him). It’s going to be some wow but some ugly (plays). A lot like Justin Fields.

Former head coach: Jayden is QB2. He can start immediately, but he better learn to protect himself or he’ll be in the cold tub often.

Personnel executive 1: He could end up being the best one. Good athlete and arm talent. I think he sees it and can process. Big drop-off after him and Williams.

3. Drake Maye, North Carolina — 24

Current GM: People are going to pick Maye apart. If he ends up being the best of the group, it won’t shock me. He is made of the right stuff.

Simms: If you watch 20 throws, you’ll see good throws. Then … the ball is all over the place. The decision-making can be all over the place, and the pocket presence is all over the place, let alone some mechanical flaws in how he throws the football. It (was) confirmed to me in his pro day, (which) was underwhelming. … He’s got all the size. He’s pretty athletic when he runs. I always hear (Maye is) like Justin Herbert coming out or Josh Allen, and my brain wants to explode.

Scout 1: Maye reminds me a lot of Herbert.

Assistant coach: Maye is Herbert light. Take everything Herbert does and make it less. They’ll be compared (because of the prototype size), but there’s no comparison. I like Maye, but when I see the amount of work it will take to have him reach his potential, we’ll be fired first.

Personnel executive 1: He scares the hell out of me. Longer thrower with a big arm but not quick release. Nothing feels like it happens in rhythm, and accuracy is average. Needs a year on the bench.

Former GM: He has accuracy you can’t teach and is only scratching the surface with his upside while he physically matures. Wait for years two and three. If he progresses, he can end up like Troy Aikman.

4 JJM, 5 Penix, 6 Nix….

Thank you!

 

[kicksavedave]

@Ridley Simon
What if JJ comes in and just kills it

JJ will kill it. Everything I've seen and read says he's a dynamite interview, charismatic, respectful and smart. That said I think he carries the highest risk among the top 4. I'm glad they're doing all their due diligence. From what I hear also, they are still not decided, but these meetings will be the final piece of the puzzle.

 

[g00n]

Interesting to note that Quinn would've spent his entire HC career with Matt Ryan as QB1, and KK would've had Murray and Williams and whoever else was before that in college.

IOW no help there in figuring it out.

Glad to be of assistance.

 

[Ridley Simon]

@Ridley Simon
What if JJ comes in and just kills it

It wouldn’t surprise me, like at all. This is where the rubber is really gonna meet the road for these 3.

Which will show and exude the confidence needed, as well as the analytical skills to match?

 

[kicksavedave]

Interesting to note that Quinn would've spent his entire HC career with Matt Ryan as QB1, and KK would've had Murray and Williams and whoever else was before that in college.

IOW no help there in figuring it out.

Glad to be of assistance.

KK was also OC/QB or HC with Johnny Manziel, Baker Mayfield and Patrick Mahomes starting for him in college. So I feel like he's well qualified to have his preference become the pick.

Think about it. KK has coached Manziel, Mayfield, Mahomes, Murray and Williams. That's impressive.

 

[ynotcaps]

JJ will kill it. Everything I've seen and read says he's a dynamite interview, charismatic, respectful and smart. That said I think he carries the highest risk among the top 4. I'm glad they're doing all their due diligence. From what I hear also, they are still not decided, but these meetings will be the final piece of the puzzle.

In my mind he doesn't necessarily carry the highest risk -- I actually think he might be the one of the top 4 to reach his full potential. I just haven't seen enough (I don't think anybody has) to really know what his ceiling could be -- not the way we can project the other 3. But I think he either has the highest or second highest floor. If he doesn't get any better, it seems like he could be a decent pro QB as he is (and of course, I expect him to get better.)

The thing I can't get my out of my head is where I read somewhere (lost track of where) that he seems a lot to that evaluator like Kirk Cousins. A good, NFL-caliber starter. But not a #2 OA value.

 

[Ridley Simon]

In my mind he doesn't necessarily carry the highest risk -- I actually think he might be the one of the top 4 to reach his full potential. I just haven't seen enough (I don't think anybody has) to really know what his ceiling could be -- not the way we can project the other 3. But I think he either has the highest or second highest floor. If he doesn't get any better, it seems like he could be a decent pro QB as he is (and of course, I expect him to get better.)

The thing I can't get my out of my head is where I read somewhere (lost track of where) that he seems a lot to that evaluator like Kirk Cousins. A good, NFL-caliber starter. But not a #2 OA value.

Someone made some comps to Kirk for JJ.

I died a little inside when I read it (as a known Kirk antagonist)

 

[Bananas]

Someone made some comps to Kirk for JJ.

I died a little inside when I read it (as a known Kirk antagonist)

I think that probably explains the softening of your stance of late lol.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Oh please…Jay is closer to a buffoon at this point…very little credibility as highlighted by all those teams begging him to come back and coach….

Riddick hasn't had a job in the NFL since 2013, Chris Simms illustrious coaching career lasted a single season in 2012, Chase Daniels is fresh out of the NFL as a lifetime backup and has never coached or been in a role where he scouting talent outside of his own eye test...these guys ain't the cream of the crop either. I'm not saying Jay is a genius but let's not downplay every single thing that doesn't fit the preferred narrative here. That's literally what people are ragging on the pro Maye crowd for doing.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I think that probably explains the softening of your stance of late lol.

It was rather upsetting!!

 

[ynotcaps]

It was rather upsetting!!

All kidding aside, KC isn't a terrible floor for a QB. It's just a question of how much value do you put that performance level squared, divided by the likelihood he reaches his ceiling, which is derived by dividing Tom Brady by Fran Tarkenton times pi.
IOW: V = KC*KC/(TB/(FT*3.14))

 

[Ridley Simon]

All kidding aside, KC isn't a terrible floor for a QB. It's just a question of how much value do you put that performance level squared, divided by the likelihood he reaches his ceiling, which is derived by dividing Tom Brady by Fran Tarkenton times pi.
IOW: V = KC*KC/(TB/(FT*3.14))

LOL. I know. And candidly, Kirk is a pretty good QB. He’s better than he was when he left us. I just hated how he “money grabbed” his teams into mediocrity. They couldn’t afford the team around him. You gotta be a top 5-8 or so guy to lift up a mediocre team, and I don’t personally think that’s Kirk.

So I’m hoping that’s not JJ either.

In the end, Kirk isn’t clutch. In fact, I think he chokes. Hence why I don’t like him for all that coin (feel the same about Dak).

That said, if JJ can play like Kirk BUT be clutch too? Then he’s worth the coin and would be close to top 5-8, no problem.

As far as JJ goes. I’m a little bitter he’s so well regarded now. I wanted to get him later and trade down. Now that ship has sailed (unless #3 or #4 want to move up, but I doubt it with who is currently holding those picks), part of my plan is foiled. JJ plus extra capital to surround him with.

But even IF they took JJ at 2, I’d be happy. I think he will be the best of the group …. Just not right away.

 

[ynotcaps]

LOL. I know. And candidly, Kirk is a pretty good QB. He’s better than he was when he left us. I just hated how he “money grabbed” his teams into mediocrity. They couldn’t afford the team around him. You gotta be a top 5-8 or so guy to lift up a mediocre team, and I don’t personally think that’s Kirk.

So I’m hoping that’s not JJ either.

In the end, Kirk isn’t clutch. In fact, I think he chokes. Hence why I don’t like him for all that coin (feel the same about Dak).

That said, if JJ can play like Kirk BUT be clutch too? Then he’s worth the coin and would be close to top 5-8, no problem.

As far as JJ goes. I’m a little bitter he’s so well regarded now. I wanted to get him later and trade down. Now that ship has sailed (unless #3 or #4 want to move up, but I doubt it with who is currently holding those picks), part of my plan is foiled. JJ plus extra capital to surround him with.

But even IF they took JJ at 2, I’d be happy. I think he will be the best of the group …. Just not right away.

Liked not necessarily for the final declaration, but completely understanding the belief and the process in getting there. (And, yeah, could end up being true)

I'm kinda' jealous that the Bears fans don't have to deal with this uncertainty and tug-of-war -- but I'm also kinda' not, because I think Caleb is one of the 2 most likely to bust. He could be Michael Jordan, or he could be every other "generational talent" that didn't meet the challenge -- and I think he might have a lot more than the standard deviation of that risk.

 

[RedRocking]

LOL. I know. And candidly, Kirk is a pretty good QB. He’s better than he was when he left us. I just hated how he “money grabbed” his teams into mediocrity. They couldn’t afford the team around him. You gotta be a top 5-8 or so guy to lift up a mediocre team, and I don’t personally think that’s Kirk.

So I’m hoping that’s not JJ either.

In the end, Kirk isn’t clutch. In fact, I think he chokes. Hence why I don’t like him for all that coin (feel the same about Dak).

That said, if JJ can play like Kirk BUT be clutch too? Then he’s worth the coin and would be close to top 5-8, no problem.

As far as JJ goes. I’m a little bitter he’s so well regarded now. I wanted to get him later and trade down. Now that ship has sailed (unless #3 or #4 want to move up, but I doubt it with who is currently holding those picks), part of my plan is foiled. JJ plus extra capital to surround him with.

But even IF they took JJ at 2, I’d be happy. I think he will be the best of the group …. Just not right away.

Hey man, chin up - I’ve heard the comp as toolsy Kirk Cousins (per Mina Kimes). So just insert whatever superlatives you’d prefer into the term “toolsy”

More athletic Alex Smith has been bandied about as well. Do with that what you want.

Anyways, I still think if he’s good enough to go 4OA, then you can take him 2OA.

 

[HTFN]

Liked not necessarily for the final declaration, but completely understanding the belief and the process in getting there. (And, yeah, could end up being true)

I'm kinda' jealous that the Bears fans don't have to deal with this uncertainty and tug-of-war -- but I'm also kinda' not, because I think Caleb is one of the 2 most likely to bust. He could be Michael Jordan, or he could be every other "generational talent" that didn't meet the challenge -- and I think he might have a lot more than the standard deviation of that risk.

I've said it too many times and will probably eventually stop prefacing posts this way but as a Packers fan who just keeps up with you guys because of the board and my soft spot for Washington football I agree with this.

If you guys had 1OA it'd be Williams and pray, or make a decision that immediately pulls up the microscope by choosing another QB first. I don't have a ton of personal faith in Williams for reasons I can't fully put my finger on, and maybe he is all that and deserves 1OA but if I were in a Washington fan's shoes I'm frankly a little relieved to not be pinned to it and have debatable options.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Riddick hasn't had a job in the NFL since 2013, Chris Simms illustrious coaching career lasted a single season in 2012, Chase Daniels is fresh out of the NFL as a lifetime backup and has never coached or been in a role where he scouting talent outside of his own eye test...these guys ain't the cream of the crop either. I'm not saying Jay is a genius but let's not downplay every single thing that doesn't fit the preferred narrative here. That's literally what people are ragging on the pro Maye crowd for doing.

There’s no narrative in play as I don’t typically jump to immediately discredit ….but we all know Gruden and how shit he was here….he is just questionable as F as a reference at this point.

I’d hope there are other much more reputable guys in favor of Maye. The only real substantial narrative played here is the one you all floated first, that Kiper (and others) picked JD 2 just for clicks….

 

[Cush]

Players who will be at the draft

Terrion Arnold, CB, Alabama
Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU
Marvin Harrison Jr., WR, Ohio State
JC Latham, OL, Alabama
Laiatu Latu, DL, UCLA
Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina
Quinyon Mitchell, CB, Toledo
Malik Nabers, WR, LSU
Rome Odunze, WR, Washington
Darius Robinson, DL, Missouri
Brian Thomas Jr., WR, LSU
Dallas Turner, LB, Alabama
Caleb Williams, QB, USC

 

[alphabetical]

There’s no narrative in play as I don’t typically jump to immediately discredit ….but we all know Gruden and how shit he was here….he is just questionable as F as a reference at this point.

I’d hope there are other much more reputable guys in favor of Maye. The only real substantial narrative played here is the one you all floated first, that Kiper (and others) picked JD 2 just for clicks….

It's not about discrediting. It's about considering the merit of the viewpoint. You're quick to regurgitate every source that agrees with you, even though some of them aren't worth your or anyone else's time.