2024 Draft Thread

[TheMadHatTrick]

How can we acquire a second rounder without trading back or moving Robertson? Do we have any expendable assets with that kind of value?

 

[SprDaVE]

How can we acquire a second rounder without trading back or moving Robertson? Do we have any expendable assets with that kind of value?

Jarnkrok might be the true expendable asset that should return a 2nd round pick at the minimum. He's locked up to a good cap hit, he's versatile and a solid player, but maybe it's time to sell him and inject more youth into the lineup more regularly, or pivot into a different kind of player.

Liljegren to me is worth a late 1st (similar to Sandin) but I wouldn't say he's expendable based on our needs and lack of defensive depth.

I wouldn't expect any big pick addition though.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Jarnkrok might be the true expendable asset that should return a 2nd round pick at the minimum. He's locked up to a good cap hit, he's versatile and a solid player, but maybe it's time to sell him and inject more youth into the lineup more regularly, or pivot into a different kind of player.

Liljegren to me is worth a late 1st (similar to Sandin) but I wouldn't say he's expendable based on our needs and lack of defensive depth.

I wouldn't expect any big pick addition though.

Jarnkrok might fit in St.Louis, they have some holes up front and tons of picks.

Maybe look at a guy like Trenin or Duhaime afterwards for similar or less cost in the bottom 6.

 

[sxvnert]

How can we acquire a second rounder without trading back or moving Robertson? Do we have any expendable assets with that kind of value?

Trading prospects/players who are deemed not a fit long term (Lily, Robertson, etc).

 

[kb]

Trading prospects/players who are deemed not a fit long term (Lily, Robertson, etc).

That's not a smart move. 5 years until that 2nd round pick may or may not make the NHL

 

[Kiwi]

How can we acquire a second rounder without trading back or moving Robertson? Do we have any expendable assets with that kind of value?

Not really, I doubt Keefe is keen to see Jarnkrok go

 

[hockeynorth]

Nathan Villeneuve would be good around R3, big, mean, skilled C

 

[darrylsittler27]

Jarnkrok might be the true expendable asset that should return a 2nd round pick at the minimum. He's locked up to a good cap hit, he's versatile and a solid player, but maybe it's time to sell him and inject more youth into the lineup more regularly, or pivot into a different kind of player.

Liljegren to me is worth a late 1st (similar to Sandin) but I wouldn't say he's expendable based on our needs and lack of defensive depth.

I wouldn't expect any big pick addition though.

I doubt anyone wants him for a second rounder. It would be Robertson since he can play now. He might get a high second rounder but then how long do you have to wait for a second rounder, 5 years? Typically 2nd rounders arent easy to get. We might want to pick up some 3rds.

 

[SprDaVE]

I doubt anyone wants him for a second rounder. It would be Robertson since he can play now. He might get a high second rounder but then how long do you have to wait for a second rounder, 5 years? Typically 2nd rounders arent easy to get. We might want to pick up some 3rds.

He was traded as a rental for a 2nd round pick a few years ago and he's been arguably much better with the Leafs. With a 2.1M cap hit for the next 2 seasons, that's a very good value pickup for a team looking at bolstering their top 9 at a cheap cap hit and little term. He's definitely a 2nd round pick value at the minimum.

You overvalue 2nd round picks quite a bit. I don't think the Leafs care all that much to pick in the 2nd round by removing a fairly solid player anyway.

 

[francis246]

Nathan Villeneuve would be good around R3, big, mean, skilled C

Wasnt he suspended for putting a bounty on another player? Yeah that’s not what we need in our locker room

 

[darrylsittler27]

He was traded as a rental for a 2nd round pick a few years ago and he's been arguably much better with the Leafs. With a 2.1M cap hit for the next 2 seasons, that's a very good value pickup for a team looking at bolstering their top 9 at a cheap cap hit and little term. He's definitely a 2nd round pick value at the minimum.

You overvalue 2nd round picks quite a bit. I don't think the Leafs care all that much to pick in the 2nd round by removing a fairly solid player anyway.

The Leafs may want more cap space for something else. Cowan could make the team.Offer me a high 2nd and I will drive him there by horse.

 

[SprDaVE]

The Leafs may want more cap space for something else. Cowan could make the team.Offer me a high 2nd and I will drive him there by horse.

Could doesn't mean he will. If he doesn't show he's quite NHL ready, you're in need of a 15-20 goal scoring winger that top PKs and can bounce around LW and RW.

2nd round picks are not terrible but also they won't really help you for a few years unless you hit a big home run like Knies who took 2 years to join the Leafs.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

MyNhldraft mock has the Leafs with :

Charlie Elick
Ht/Wt: 6' 3"/190 lbs
Position: RHD
Team: Brandon (WHL)

Charlie Elick's Player Profile​

Rachel Doerrie - ESPN - April 2nd: "His offensive rush and transition play have taken big steps this year, but he projects as a rangy, shutdown defenseman who is a nightmare to play against. He'll need to develop his instincts and continue to evolve his transition game, but Elick has an attractive package of functional size, mobility and a mean streak that's a mile long."

Scott Wheeler - The Athletic - March 25th: "He’s got a good stick and great feet defending the rush and gapping up, but can also step up and lay the body, which he does with force (he's one of the hardest-hitting players in the draft, regularly driving through players to sit them down along the wall and occasionally even leaving his feet). He has shown he can use his skating to be more involved in the rush/transition this year."

Corey Pronman - The Athletic - March 12th: "Elick isn't a natural puck-mover and can make some questionable puck decisions. He will need to clean that up, but he has good hands and isn't a negative with the puck on his stick. In a role where he just needs to defend well and make a basic outlet, he could potentially be a top-four NHL defenseman."

Steven Ellis - Daily Faceoff - March 9th: "Elick is one of the best skaters in this draft class and doesn’t need to put much effort to get up to full speed. The fact he can do that at 6-foot-3? Awesome. His puck-play brings him down a bit, though."

​

That all sounds nice and is a player profile we need but I can't see that pick being made in the 1st round under Shanny.

That sounds like he would project to be a 3rd pair guy. One of the most important things to have to be an NHL player is hockey IQ and being able to move the puck efficiently at the fastest level in hockey. If he is questionable about it in junior, he would have a helluva long road to be able to do it in the NHL.

I just can't see Shanny being willing to use a first rounder on a guy like that. Under him, we've always taken high IQ players with upside with our high picks.

 

[hockeynorth]

Wasnt he suspended for putting a bounty on another player? Yeah that’s not what we need in our locker room

Isn’t that exactly what people clamour for?

Actual story though - jokingly into the team chat saying a hundred bucks to whoever hits him first next game, team member sends screenshot to a best friend on Barrie, investigation ensued

 

[nuck]

That all sounds nice and is a player profile we need but I can't see that pick being made in the 1st round under Shanny.

That sounds like he would project to be a 3rd pair guy. One of the most important things to have to be an NHL player is hockey IQ and being able to move the puck efficiently at the fastest level in hockey. If he is questionable about it in junior, he would have a helluva long road to be able to do it in the NHL.

I just can't see Shanny being willing to use a first rounder on a guy like that. Under him, we've always taken high IQ players with upside with our high picks.

I'm not sure how much. if any, involvement Shanny has had in the clubs drafting. Its one thing for a Prez to support things that lead to a high octane dangling offense and something completely different for him to get involved in operational decisions like the draft, especially outside of the top 15 or 20. The club already has its superstars. I expect the President mostly just wants players that can crack the lineup. If the clubs theme in the past has been drafting high IQ rather than raw physical tools then I would say that was a Dubas thing.

Keep in mind even a GM is lucky to have seen anything of a late 1st round draft pick. There would be no way the Prez is bird dogging the huge number of prospects that may be there when the team selects and swiping left or right for the GM. Thats what the scouting department is for and then they have to sell the GM when they know who is available at the pick.

If he projects as a "rangy shutdown defenseman who is a nightmare to play against" and "one of the best skaters in the draft class" that doesn't really describe a 3rd pairing talent with no high upside. Muzzin scored 1g and 3 assists his draft year. Ekholm 3g and 5a in the Swedish Junior league. It doesn't make much sense to pigeon hole a prospect who is miles more advanced than these guys were at the same age. 3rd pairing upside is Benoit who didn't even show enough at that age to get drafted.

This is two discussion points really. One is how far Shanny gets his nose into the GMs business. Has there ever been any evidence that he has done anything more than influence trades? Remember he was the GM for Hunter too. We obviously know he would have strong opinions with another top 8 pick where the viewing opportunities would be greater as would the potential impact of the selection, but even then, at what point does he overrule Tre? I honestly don't think they took Lily, or Sandin. or Amirov because of any input from Shanahan. He has a full time job already without adding head scout to it.

The other point is how good of a prospect will be there for them in the 20s and where is Elick in that bunch? Anybody there by 20 has some holes in their game. I like what he could be because I think a Josh Manson type player can be impactful on any club. I am going to say he probably won't be there when they select anyways and if he is, that doesn't mean there won't still be a better option. Also the WHL has been such a dry well for the Leafs maybe he gets overlooked for a league bias. Anyways he isn't necessarily my guy, just a player they picked in a mock.

 

[nuck]

Trading prospects/players who are deemed not a fit long term (Lily, Robertson, etc).

Now that they may have some more depth players I can see the value in moving out pieces that aren't a great fit but probably not for picks unless its guys like Kampf or Jarn. The Leafs defense is not deep or all that talented so if I am moving a youngish player it would probably be as part of a solution to that. Trading Nick would be a risky move in terms of return vs possible value to the club as early as next year IMO but if its part of a package to bring back a cost controlled RD why not? You need to give to get. I am less of as fan of Lilly but there is still some risk there that he becomes as good or better than the guy you trade him for. But if you are buying a RD its probably going to cost his spot so you do it.

Building teams don't want your aging vets they want high picks or players that have already started to turn the corner. I am on team dump Kampf because he barely earns his deal at the top of his game and they need the cap space. I would move Jarn for other reasons because he isn't a bad value but if you can replace his contribution for half the cost you need to do it. You have to soak up the Willie deal somehow.

I generally don't think dealing players for picks in a weak draft year a thing a contender does.

 

[supermann_98]

MyNhldraft mock has the Leafs with :

Charlie Elick
Ht/Wt: 6' 3"/190 lbs
Position: RHD
Team: Brandon (WHL)

Charlie Elick's Player Profile​

Rachel Doerrie - ESPN - April 2nd: "His offensive rush and transition play have taken big steps this year, but he projects as a rangy, shutdown defenseman who is a nightmare to play against. He'll need to develop his instincts and continue to evolve his transition game, but Elick has an attractive package of functional size, mobility and a mean streak that's a mile long."

Scott Wheeler - The Athletic - March 25th: "He’s got a good stick and great feet defending the rush and gapping up, but can also step up and lay the body, which he does with force (he's one of the hardest-hitting players in the draft, regularly driving through players to sit them down along the wall and occasionally even leaving his feet). He has shown he can use his skating to be more involved in the rush/transition this year."

Corey Pronman - The Athletic - March 12th: "Elick isn't a natural puck-mover and can make some questionable puck decisions. He will need to clean that up, but he has good hands and isn't a negative with the puck on his stick. In a role where he just needs to defend well and make a basic outlet, he could potentially be a top-four NHL defenseman."

Steven Ellis - Daily Faceoff - March 9th: "Elick is one of the best skaters in this draft class and doesn’t need to put much effort to get up to full speed. The fact he can do that at 6-foot-3? Awesome. His puck-play brings him down a bit, though."

​

Sign me up for this kid. I love me some big, mean WHL Dmen who can skate

 

[LeafSteel]

Sign me up for this kid. I love me some big, mean WHL Dmen who can skate

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I'm not sure how much. if any, involvement Shanny has had in the clubs drafting. Its one thing for a Prez to support things that lead to a high octane dangling offense and something completely different for him to get involved in operational decisions like the draft, especially outside of the top 15 or 20. The club already has its superstars. I expect the President mostly just wants players that can crack the lineup. If the clubs theme in the past has been drafting high IQ rather than raw physical tools then I would say that was a Dubas thing.

Keep in mind even a GM is lucky to have seen anything of a late 1st round draft pick. There would be no way the Prez is bird dogging the huge number of prospects that may be there when the team selects and swiping left or right for the GM. Thats what the scouting department is for and then they have to sell the GM when they know who is available at the pick.

If he projects as a "rangy shutdown defenseman who is a nightmare to play against" and "one of the best skaters in the draft class" that doesn't really describe a 3rd pairing talent with no high upside. Muzzin scored 1g and 3 assists his draft year. Ekholm 3g and 5a in the Swedish Junior league. It doesn't make much sense to pigeon hole a prospect who is miles more advanced than these guys were at the same age. 3rd pairing upside is Benoit who didn't even show enough at that age to get drafted.

This is two discussion points really. One is how far Shanny gets his nose into the GMs business. Has there ever been any evidence that he has done anything more than influence trades? Remember he was the GM for Hunter too. We obviously know he would have strong opinions with another top 8 pick where the viewing opportunities would be greater as would the potential impact of the selection, but even then, at what point does he overrule Tre? I honestly don't think they took Lily, or Sandin. or Amirov because of any input from Shanahan. He has a full time job already without adding head scout to it.

The other point is how good of a prospect will be there for them in the 20s and where is Elick in that bunch? Anybody there by 20 has some holes in their game. I like what he could be because I think a Josh Manson type player can be impactful on any club. I am going to say he probably won't be there when they select anyways and if he is, that doesn't mean there won't still be a better option. Also the WHL has been such a dry well for the Leafs maybe he gets overlooked for a league bias. Anyways he isn't necessarily my guy, just a player they picked in a mock.

I would think that if Shanny was giving his input or even vetoing trades that he is giving his input on the direction of draft picks.

They discussed it on the Steve Dangle one time about the Nylander draft, when Shanny was first hired, he asked the scouting table at the draft, who they liked at #8. Apparently it was some big D man who was ranked way later. Shanny asked them what they liked and their answer was "he's big". Shanny turned around and said "nope, we're taking Nylander". Then shortly after that, the entire scouting staff other than Morrison and Bergman was fired. This story makes sense considering many of their failed picks with the likes of Biggs, Gauthier etc. Also, look at the drafting since Shanny has been Leafs president. A ton of skill with hockey IQ.

Even look at Hunter's first draft. A bunch of skill guys. Maybe in his 2nd and 3rd years Shanny deferred more to Hunter and he took a bunch of behemoths that never amounted to anything? Maybe that's one of the reasons why Hunter is no longer here?

As for your examples. I'm not sure what their scouting profiles were in the their draft years but using points for Dmen doesn't necessarily show a D man's effectiveness at moving the puck. Our Kokkonen was a guy known to be a limited offense, shutdown guy. He wasn't known for putting up points but he could make good decisions with the puck and get it up ice. The kid Webber we just traded for, doesn't put up many points either and is known for his shutdown and physical nature but I haven't really seen much scouting info saying he makes questionable decisions. At least we only gave up a 6th for a guy like that as opposed to using a 1st to select a similar profile player who is already regarded as someone who might have some IQ issues at a lower level

 

[nuck]

I would think that if Shanny was giving his input or even vetoing trades that he is giving his input on the direction of draft picks.

We don't know this. One relates to the immediate product put on the ice and is the presidents job. The other would be borderline micromanaging except for the single digit selections.

They discussed it on the Steve Dangle one time about the Nylander draft, when Shanny was first hired, he asked the scouting table at the draft, who they liked at #8. Apparently it was some big D man who was ranked way later. Shanny asked them what they liked and their answer was "he's big". Shanny turned around and said "nope, we're taking Nylander". Then shortly after that, the entire scouting staff other than Morrison and Bergman was fired. This story makes sense considering many of their failed picks with the likes of Biggs, Gauthier etc. Also, look at the drafting since Shanny has been Leafs president. A ton of skill with hockey IQ.

Nylander was top 8 and a choice that had a high probability of impacting the teams future. Remember pre Marner and Mathews so their high end talents were Kessel and Kadri. I did say Shanny would have strong opinions on the high picks. With the #8 the club would have scouted the shit out of him. Thats normal Prez stuff. The Shanny drafting years have mostly been the Dubas drafting years so I am not sure how you can say the President was the architect and not KD.

Even look at Hunter's first draft. A bunch of skill guys. Maybe in his 2nd and 3rd years Shanny deferred more to Hunter and he took a bunch of behemoths that never amounted to anything? Maybe that's one of the reasons why Hunter is no longer here?

Now it seems you are just looking for reasons why Shanny went for big guys early and then some smaller skilled guys later. The easy answer is he wasn't doing the drafting, it was Lou/Mark first and then Kyle later. Hunter is gone because he didn't want to be second fiddle to KD. You could certainly infer that his drafting didn't help but it takes at least four or five years for drafts to finish cooking so I don't think he had time to be judged. Shanny just liked Kyle more. Fresh ideas. The Golden boy.

As for your examples. I'm not sure what their scouting profiles were in the their draft years but using points for Dmen doesn't necessarily show a D man's effectiveness at moving the puck. Our Kokkonen was a guy known to be a limited offense, shutdown guy. He wasn't known for putting up points but he could make good decisions with the puck and get it up ice.

Points show usage and players not getting drafted at all or not going in the top 100 probably demonstrates much bigger growth is needed than anything a 1st round ranked player has to work on.

The kid Webber we just traded for, doesn't put up many points either and is known for his shutdown and physical nature but I haven't really seen much scouting info saying he makes questionable decisions.

Have you seen multiple comments like this or are you looking at what Pronman just said? The other two never mentioned it so how much of an actual concern is it? CP said some questionable
decisions as opposed to frequent bonehead plays. Is it possible you could be reading too much into that? Every 17 year old has things to work on and the later they are picked, the bigger the need to improve.

At least we only gave up a 6th for a guy like that as opposed to using a 1st to select a similar profile player who is already regarded as someone who might have some IQ issues at a lower level

Are you getting this solely from Pronman's comments in the mock or do you have a link to something a bit more damning? I honestly haven't seen that. Also there is nothing similar between this kid and Webber except they are both tall. I promise you at no level of hockey was Webber called a great skater. And he had 1 goal in over 120 college games. I'll bet he has never been over another teams blueline and even with those offensive challenges I think he has room to grow but he have to will take the slower giant's route to get there.

The Leafs have not drafted a big fast defenseman who can hit in my era so I don't know who to compare Elick to. I know he logs big minutes on a relatively weak team so occasional bad decision making might just be trying to do too much or he might actually be a little dense. The biggest knock to me might be that with all the positives I have read he is still ranked in the 20s in a weak draft year. Should everything about him be prefaced by "compared to the rest of this years crop"?

Like I said before I doubt he will be around for the Leafs unless they pile up in the 1st round again and 50-50 the pick gets traded anyhow. I doubt we have to worry about his wattage.

Edit: I have read a few scouting reports and have seen reference to chasing the big hit will at times leave him out of position. This might be where bad decision making comments come in.

 

[mistaclick]

With Tre involved (big dman enthusiast) I wonder if they take a good look at Jesse Pulkkinen for the draft. Would be a great pick for the backend. Probably gets taken late first or early second, but from what I’ve seen of him I wouldn’t mind using a late first on him.

 

[sxvnert]

With Tre involved (big dman enthusiast) I wonder if they take a good look at Jesse Pulkkinen for the draft. Would be a great pick for the backend. Probably gets taken late first or early second, but from what I’ve seen of him I wouldn’t mind using a late first on him.

Charlie Elick
Ht/Wt: 6' 3"/190 lbs
Position: RHD
Team: Brandon

 

[nuck]

Charlie Elick
Ht/Wt: 6' 3"/190 lbs
Position: RHD
Team: Brandon

He will not be there for #32 bud, sorry My picks for the Cup winner are Yegor Surin (if he looks more C than RW) or failing that maybe Lucas Pettersson who is little but not dinky and has a motor. Darkhorse is Simon Zether but he is more like a 2nd rounder because he he has some things to work out (size and compete level are not among these things).

https://twitter.com/TheWHL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1576365312781746179%7Ctwgr%5E284adacf5d7a2f7dc3968d5d042130b91a0529ec%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthehockeywriters.com%2Fcharlie-elick-2024-nhl-draft-prospect-profile%2F

 

[WTFMAN99]

That all sounds nice and is a player profile we need but I can't see that pick being made in the 1st round under Shanny.

That sounds like he would project to be a 3rd pair guy. One of the most important things to have to be an NHL player is hockey IQ and being able to move the puck efficiently at the fastest level in hockey. If he is questionable about it in junior, he would have a helluva long road to be able to do it in the NHL.

I just can't see Shanny being willing to use a first rounder on a guy like that. Under him, we've always taken high IQ players with upside with our high picks.

I'm not sure how much. if any, involvement Shanny has had in the clubs drafting. Its one thing for a Prez to support things that lead to a high octane dangling offense and something completely different for him to get involved in operational decisions like the draft, especially outside of the top 15 or 20. The club already has its superstars. I expect the President mostly just wants players that can crack the lineup. If the clubs theme in the past has been drafting high IQ rather than raw physical tools then I would say that was a Dubas thing.

Keep in mind even a GM is lucky to have seen anything of a late 1st round draft pick. There would be no way the Prez is bird dogging the huge number of prospects that may be there when the team selects and swiping left or right for the GM. Thats what the scouting department is for and then they have to sell the GM when they know who is available at the pick.

If he projects as a "rangy shutdown defenseman who is a nightmare to play against" and "one of the best skaters in the draft class" that doesn't really describe a 3rd pairing talent with no high upside. Muzzin scored 1g and 3 assists his draft year. Ekholm 3g and 5a in the Swedish Junior league. It doesn't make much sense to pigeon hole a prospect who is miles more advanced than these guys were at the same age. 3rd pairing upside is Benoit who didn't even show enough at that age to get drafted.

This is two discussion points really. One is how far Shanny gets his nose into the GMs business. Has there ever been any evidence that he has done anything more than influence trades? Remember he was the GM for Hunter too. We obviously know he would have strong opinions with another top 8 pick where the viewing opportunities would be greater as would the potential impact of the selection, but even then, at what point does he overrule Tre? I honestly don't think they took Lily, or Sandin. or Amirov because of any input from Shanahan. He has a full time job already without adding head scout to it.

The other point is how good of a prospect will be there for them in the 20s and where is Elick in that bunch? Anybody there by 20 has some holes in their game. I like what he could be because I think a Josh Manson type player can be impactful on any club. I am going to say he probably won't be there when they select anyways and if he is, that doesn't mean there won't still be a better option. Also the WHL has been such a dry well for the Leafs maybe he gets overlooked for a league bias. Anyways he isn't necessarily my guy, just a player they picked in a mock.

I think a lot of people said the same about Brandan Carlo but he's a really good 2nd pairing shut down RD

 

[SprDaVE]

With Tre involved (big dman enthusiast) I wonder if they take a good look at Jesse Pulkkinen for the draft. Would be a great pick for the backend. Probably gets taken late first or early second, but from what I’ve seen of him I wouldn’t mind using a late first on him.

I dunno but he's drafted plenty of 5'10"-6'" defensemen in his tenure with the Flames. Not to mention forwards as well. Size is pretty irrelevant, they probably just want a good player wherever they pick.