Boston Bruins 2023 Training Camp II

[HumBucker]

Don’t want to start a huge debate on the issue and I truly don’t care about differing opinions on the subject, but I’ll say this…

I am far more comfortable with Poitras making it with Lucic here, than I would be if he wasn’t.

I hope it deters anyone from taking a run at Poitras, or lining him up for an open-ice hit, but when has it ever been a real deterrent? Having Looch, Chara, Thornton, McQuaid etc. on the team did not help Bergeron or Savard from getting hit.

 

[Gee Wally]

Since 5pm has come and gone, what does that mean for Lorhei and the roster?

my guess, until they say something, is he’ll be demoted at least on ‘paper’ for now.

Unless he physically shows up in Providence.

 

[Over the volcano]

I hope it deters anyone from taking a run at Poitras, or lining him up for an open-ice hit, but when has it ever been a real deterrent? Having Looch, Chara, Thornton, McQuaid etc. on the team did not help Bergeron or Savard from getting hit.

Cant prove a negative. We have fire departments and still there are real fires. We have police and there's still real crime. Lucic is very much a deterrent for most players

 

[GordonHowe]

my guess, until they say something, is he’ll be demoted at least on ‘paper’ for now.

Unless he physically shows up in Providence.

Who, Mason?

 

[Trizz617]

Great attitude! Love this kid. He WANTS it. I love the drive.

I think we have a winner, Mione. Looking forward to observing his progression.

 

[HumBucker]

Cant prove a negative. We have fire departments and still there are real fires. We have police and there's still real crime. Lucic is very much a deterrent for most players

Exactly. Fire departments don't deter fires. They respond after the fact.

It's not an attempt to "prove a negative". We have the evidence, the facts, the data points: Bergeron was run into the boards and almost had his career ended (or worse). It was not prevented by having a slew of effective heavy-weight fighters on the team. That's a fact. It occurred despite the presence of enforcers. It was, therefore, not a deterrent. Nothing was deterred.

 

[Over the volcano]

Fire departments don't deter fires. They respond after the fact.

It's not an attempt to "prove a negative". We have the evidence, the facts, the data points: Bergeron was run into the boards and almost had his career ended (or worse). It was not prevented by having a slew of effective heavy-weight fighters on the team. That's a fact. It occurred despite the presence of enforcers. It was, therefore, not a deterrent. Nothing was deterred.

Do police deter crime? I mean it still happens and we imprison as many people as any country in the history of the world.

To prove something was deterred you have to show what didn't happen = proving a negative.

But believe whatever gets your biscuits burning

 

[sarge88]

I hope it deters anyone from taking a run at Poitras, or lining him up for an open-ice hit, but when has it ever been a real deterrent? Having Looch, Chara, Thornton, McQuaid etc. on the team did not help Bergeron or Savard from getting hit.

My answer to this is always the same.

We’ll never know for sure unless someone comes clean and says: “ I had the kid lined up and was going to elbow him in the head from his blind side, but I knew Lucic was on the ice and I didn‘t want to get my head bashed in, so I peeled off”.

Given that nobody will ever say that, all we have to go by is what the players say and human nature.

Time and again, players talk about how certain players allow them to have more room and serve as a deterrent.

Human nature says that rules and expectations serve a purpose….they don’t prevent everything they are designed to prevent, but they work for most.

I always find it curious that when this subject comes up, so many people ignore what the professionals say about it and think they “know” better, when we don’t “know better” about other topics.

LIke, if David Ortiz said that it’s easier to hit at night, because the lighting is more consistent than during the day, we take it as fact.

But, if an NHL skill player says he can focus on his game better if there are enforcers on his team, a lot of people seem comfortable telling him he’s wrong.

 

[mar2kbos]

Poitras proves capable it really goes a lot into next off season when they have more cap space and if either Coyle or Zacha prove to be deficient in top center roles instead of having to get two top 6 centers they may need only one (think Coyle is a FA after this season) Also hope Lohrei makes it. I really thing he will provide more than any other of the bottom pairing guys. He’ll make his mistakes put his poise is really something and could be a calming influence in tough situations

 

[GlenFeatherstone]

Lohrei sent to Providence. Now let’s see if it’s a paper send down or actual.

 

[CDJ]

Do police deter crime? I mean it still happens and we have the most people in the system of any country in the history of the world.

To prove something was deterred you have to show what didn't happen = proving a negative.

But believe whatever gets your biscuits burning

Don’t you guys agree or am I missing something here?

Edit: ah yes I’m missing something

 

[Sheppy]

I hope it deters anyone from taking a run at Poitras, or lining him up for an open-ice hit, but when has it ever been a real deterrent? Having Looch, Chara, Thornton, McQuaid etc. on the team did not help Bergeron or Savard from getting hit.

Sure. But they’d give it right back.

 

[DaBroons]

Poitras proves capable it really goes a lot into next off season when they have more cap space and if either Coyle or Zacha prove to be deficient in top center roles instead of having to get two top 6 centers they may need only one (think Coyle is a FA after this season) Also hope Lohrei makes it. I really thing he will provide more than any other of the bottom pairing guys. He’ll make his mistakes put his poise is really something and could be a calming influence in tough situations

Coyle has 3 years left on his contract, counting this year.

They may not need any top centers if Zacha and Poitras get the job done this year. They can sign Hanifin, and Sweeney's already negotiating with Jake's reps.

 

[rocketdan9]

Lohrei sent to Providence. Now let’s see if it’s a paper send down or actual.

Hate this..

He had a very solid pre season. I was impressed by his D. He had several sequences of blocking shots ... and then kicking the puck up to his stick and skating the puck out of the zone safely/or make a simple pass out

Good poise and confidence for his age.

He should be a regular after the trade deadline(or prior)...

 

[wintersej]

But, if an NHL skill player says he can focus on his game better if there are enforcers on his team, a lot of people seem comfortable telling him he’s wrong.

I don't doubt it makes them feel more comfortable, but does that actually make the team better? If your enforcer is a useless hockey player, I don't think so.

I'm not sure having a couple of enforcer types prevents anything. Certainly didn't help Savard or Bergeron over the years and Chara + Lucic was those most intimidating duo in the league by far. It's not like anyone is obligated to actually throw with someone like Lucic who is way out of their weight class.

I think most would agree that the Bruins are way way way too often the nail instead of the hammer. And I would LOVE to get more of that pack dog mentality back on the team. But, I don't think it actually prevents much of anything... but it does mean that at least the other team is getting bumps and bruises, too.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Coyle has 3 years left on his contract, counting this year.

They may not need any top centers if Zacha and Poitras get the job done this year. They can sign Hanifin, and Sweeney's already negotiating with Jake's reps.

Maybe have Marchand and Pasta carry the kid a little until he gets use to NHL regular season.

Marchand Poitras Pastrnak
JVR Zacha DeBrusk
Frederic Coyle Geekie
Lucic Beecher Lauko

 

[Over the volcano]

Hate this..

He had a very solid pre season. I was impressed by his D. He had several sequences of blocking shots ... and then kicking the puck up to his stick and skating the puck out of the zone safely/or make a simple pass out

Good poise and confidence for his age.

He should be a regular after the trade deadline(or prior)...

He looked totally lost in the first rookie games and like a +NHL defenseman by the end of camp. There's plenty he can work on in Providence, but it sure looks like he can and should hang in Boston and learn from the NHL.

 

[HumBucker]

Do police deter crime? I mean it still happens and we imprison as many people as any country in the history of the world.

To prove something was deterred you have to show what didn't happen = proving a negative.

But believe whatever gets your biscuits burning

But I'm not claiming there is proof of deterrence. I'm arguing the opposite.

Look, there are two factors here: X and Y.
X = the presence of enforcers
Y = star players (or skilled rookies in this case) getting hit or run at.

The argument that's often made is that X results in the deterrence of Y.
That is, in fact, what is logically impossible to prove. If there is no occurrence of Y, can we conclude that it's because of X? Maybe, but it could also be because of other factors as well. Now, obviously it might be true in some cases, but we don't know.

What we DO know - what we have evidence of – is that Y does sometimes occur even in the presence of X. Star players have been hit hard, hit from behind, and run at, even when there are highly feared enforcers there to retaliate. But their presence deterred nothing in these cases.

It's like if I claimed that when I wear my red shoes, it deters rain.
Monday: I wear the red shoes. No rain!
Tuesday: I wear the red shoes. No rain!
Wednesday: I wear the red shoes. No rain!

Proof, you say, that the red shoes deter rain!

Thursday, I wear the red shoes. It rains.
The "red shoes as a rain deterrent" argument is washed away.

Sure. But they’d give it right back.

...which is a response, not a deterrence.

 

[sarge88]

I don't doubt it makes them feel more comfortable, but does that actually make the team better? If your enforcer is a useless hockey player, I don't think so.

I'm not sure having a couple of enforcer types prevents anything. Certainly didn't help Savard or Bergeron over the years and Chara + Lucic was those most intimidating duo in the league by far. It's not like anyone is obligated to actually throw with someone like Lucic who is way out of their weight class.

I think most would agree that the Bruins are way way way too often the nail instead of the hammer. And I would LOVE to get more of that pack dog mentality back on the team. But, I don't think it actually prevents much of anything... but it does mean that at least the other team is getting bumps and bruises, too.

Again. There is no way to prove that having tough guys didn’t prevent Savard or Bergeron from taking more dirty hits than they did.

I mean, even the consequence of death doesn’t prevent murder from happening, but laws do prevent some crimes.

I‘ll be the first one to admit that I’d probably drive 95-100 MPH, if it weren’t for speeding laws and more importantly (to me) the fines and insurance fees that come with it.

This is one of those situations where I’m not going to argue with those who play the game at a level I could only dream of.

 

[Ladyfan]

Find someone responsible for him to stay with. He is still a baby.

 

[Fair Warning]

Is Lohrei really a worse option than Miller or a washed-up Shattenkirk?

 

[ON3M4N]

Maybe have Marchand and Pasta carry the kid a little until he gets use to NHL regular season.

Marchand Poitras Pastrnak
JVR Zacha DeBrusk
Frederic Coyle Geekie
Lucic Beecher Lauko

If you put him in the top 6 it's with Marchand & DeBrusk. He played with Marchy more than anyone else this pre-season and Marchy/DeBrusk have good chemistry together. Poitras also looked good in the limited time he played with DeBrusk

 

[sarge88]

Find someone responsible for him to stay with. He is still a baby.

Who do you suggest?

Guessing a married guy with kids is the best option.

Do they have any on the team?

lol

 

[Fair Warning]

Who do you suggest?

Guessing a married guy with kids is the best option.

Do they have any on the team?

lol

Charlie Coyle — he can help take shifts at night with the baby!

 

[mikelvl]

But I'm not claiming there is proof of deterrence. I'm arguing the opposite.

Look, there are two factors here: X and Y.
X = the presence of enforcers
Y = star players (or skilled rookies in this case) getting hit or run at.

The argument that's often made is that X results in the deterrence of Y.
That is, in fact, what is logically impossible to prove. If there is no occurrence of Y, can we conclude that it's because of X? Maybe, but it could also be because of other factors as well. Now, obviously it might be true in some cases, but we don't know.

What we DO know - what we have evidence of – is that Y does sometimes occur even in the presence of X. Star players have been hit hard, hit from behind, and run at, even when there are highly feared enforcers there to retaliate. But their presence deterred nothing in these cases.

It's like if I claimed that when I wear my red shoes, it deters rain.
Monday: I wear the red shoes. No rain!
Tuesday: I wear the red shoes. No rain!
Wednesday: I wear the red shoes. No rain!

Proof, you say, that the red shoes deter rain!

Thursday, I wear the red shoes. It rains.
The "red shoes as a rain deterrent" argument is washed away.


...which is a response, not a deterrence.

I hate Algebra