Patriots/NFL 2023 Regular Season Part 2: Patriots officially eliminated from playoffs

[Johnnyduke]

Zappe does suck and objectively is less talented and worse than Mac Jones, but it's fascinating and very telling how the entire offense has performed way more efficiently under Zappe than they did Jones.

Either the team has more confidence in him or the coaching staff set Mac up to fail and opened up the playback for Zappe. Probably a little of both. Either way, assuming the same braintrust continues, I don't see Mac taking another snap for this team, he's getting cut this summer. Zappe can stick around as the long term backup, he's got some Zolak in him.

It's tough to evaluate because Mac is completely shot mentally and has the yips. I don't think the horrific play we saw from him this year is indicative of who he is as a QB. He's just in a bad, bad place right now. The question will be can he pull himself out of that or is he toast forever now.

 

[GatorMike]

 

[CDJ]

Time for the league to take our 1st from us this year and lock Belichick up for 10 years in Leavenworth

 

[Mione134]

Time for the league to take our 1st from us this year and lock Belichick up for 10 years in Leavenworth

I hope it happens. I would laugh hysterically. Burn it down!

 

[CDJ]

I hope it happens. I would laugh hysterically. Burn it down!

I think all this does is further prove how f***ing stupid the league was over deflategate

 

[Mione134]

I think all this does is further prove how f***ing stupid the league was over deflategate

Without a doubt

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Rodgers admitted loudly then he preferred to balls over inflated.

Got nothing for it

 

[The National]

You know it’s bad when even the cheating doesn’t help us win anymore.

 

[Johnnyduke]

I will forever maintain that nobody should give a flying f how the QB likes the ball. Underinflated, overinflated WHO CARES. Let each QB decide the level of inflation he likes and then you have one set of footballs for that QB and another set for the other. There is no valid reason there should even be a guideline or regulation on the PSI of a football. It is simply idiotic and led to one of the dumbest situations in NFL history.

 

[LSCII]

All I've said is he's still been better than Mac Jones. If you can't handle that it's a you problem. People are obsessed with trashing Zappe as an attempt to prop up the broken Mac Jones.

But he hasn’t and the numbers back that up. He’s been just about the same (slightly worse, actually). And if what Mac did was so brutally bad ( and it was) , why are you okay with his replacement doing the same? You lack any and all objectivity and credibility on this. It’s weird, in fact.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I hope it happens. I would laugh hysterically. Burn it down!

sounds like a nothingburger after reading the story

 

[BB79]

I'm glad I retired from Patriots/football fandom when Tom retired. When you're spoiled for years with the best QB of all time you know you've reached the summit, it'll never be that good again. It was a beautiful run. Glad I got to see it from when he stepped in for Bledsoe to his final game with the Bucs.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I'm glad I retired from Patriots/football fandom when Tom retired. When you're spoiled for years with the best QB of all time you know you've reached the summit, it'll never be that good again. It was a beautiful run. Glad I got to see it from when he stepped in for Bledsoe to his final game with the Bucs.

Bill will move on but ya Id bet the Pats dont sniff another successful dynasty in my lifetime with whatever is planned next

 

[quietbruinfan]

But he hasn’t and the numbers back that up. He’s been just about the same (slightly worse, actually). And if what Mac did was so brutally bad ( and it was) , why are you okay with his replacement doing the same? You lack any and all objectivity and credibility on this. It’s weird, in fact.

It's just the eye test but I think Zappe has a slightly better arm, more confidence, and a much better attitude than Mac. He may have a future as a backup.

 

[Johnnyduke]

But he hasn’t and the numbers back that up. He’s been just about the same (slightly worse, actually). And if what Mac did was so brutally bad ( and it was) , why are you okay with his replacement doing the same? You lack any and all objectivity and credibility on this. It’s weird, in fact.

Yep, you nailed it. I am just a huge Bailey Zappe guy! As for cutting a replacement some slack, yes, that's pretty normal when one guy has started like 5 games in his career compared to Mac Jones. So after seeing Mac shit his pants all year I will take anyone else at this point and give that person some time to grow. I will say again the only weird thing in all of this is people shitting on 4th round Bailey Zappe who doesn't have near the reps/game action Mac Jones got. But because Zappe has struggled in the 2nd halves of games people take glee in saying "seE He sUCKs tOO"

Mac Jones hasn't done anything to deserve the defense he gets. And that's even with the acknowledgment that Bill Belichick has failed him.

 

[BB79]

Bill will move on but ya Id bet the Pats dont sniff another successful dynasty in my lifetime with whatever is planned next

I think Bill will end up elsewhere next year. This team isn't going to be good for a long time and he's getting up there in years. I'd imagine he wants another chance to win one before he calls it a career

 

[Johnnyduke]

It's just the eye test but I think Zappe has a slightly better arm, more confidence, and a much better attitude than Mac. He may have a future as a backup.

No, we have to scour for any particular stat that will say Mac has been better. It's just bizarro world in here. I have heard plenty of people who get paid to critique the game conclude the same thing. Nobody reporting on the Patriots is trying to make a claim that Mac has been better and should be back out there starting. It's absurd.

You left out the one thing that I have been impressed with...Zappe's pocket presence and movement in the pocket. It's far more advanced than I would have expected. If he maintains that and improves in other areas I completely agree. He has a future as a long term backup.

 

[The National]

Bill will move on but ya Id bet the Pats dont sniff another successful dynasty in my lifetime with whatever is planned next

Probably a safe bet, it’s extremely hard to do what they did lol.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Yep, you nailed it. I am just a huge Bailey Zappe guy! As for cutting a replacement some slack, yes, that's pretty normal when one guy has started like 5 games in his career compared to Mac Jones. So after seeing Mac shit his pants all year I will take anyone else at this point and give that person some time to grow. I will say again the only weird thing in all of this is people shitting on 4th round Bailey Zappe who doesn't have near the reps/game action Mac Jones got. But because Zappe has struggled in the 2nd halves of games people take glee in saying "seE He sUCKs tOO"

Mac Jones hasn't done anything to deserve the defense he gets. And that's even with the acknowledgment that Bill Belichick has failed him.

ironically Zappe stats in 2nd half last year are 35-48 4 tds 2 ints 107 qbr. He was better QB 2nd half. Its 5 games the narrative means nothing

 

[LSCII]

No, we have to scour for any particular stat that will say Mac has been better. It's just bizarro world in here. I have heard plenty of people who get paid to critique the game conclude the same thing. Nobody reporting on the Patriots is trying to make a claim that Mac has been better and should be back out there starting. It's absurd.

You left out the one thing that I have been impressed with...Zappe's pocket presence and movement in the pocket. It's far more advanced than I would have expected. If he maintains that and improves in other areas I completely agree. He has a future as a long term backup.

The irony of you playing victim here is hilarious. You and several others have done nothing but piss and moan all season long about how it should be Zappe starting and how it would be better. Now that he is and it's not, you want to absolve yourselves of the nonsense you perpetuated. It doesn't work that way. You wanted what they have now, you get to take the good with the bad. And in all honesty, it's been mostly bad.

What good is pocket presence when all it does is lead to sacks? That's what's happened whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

ironically Zappe stats in 2nd half last year are 35-48 4 tds 2 ints 107 qbr. He was better QB 2nd half. Its 5 games the narrative means nothing

Now do his numbers in the second half of this year, since each season is it's own thing and last year doesn't apply to this year.

 

[LSCII]

It's just the eye test but I think Zappe has a slightly better arm, more confidence, and a much better attitude than Mac. He may have a future as a backup.

Stronger arm yes. More accurate? No, in fact he's wildly inaccurate. Takes double the sacks? Yes. The biggest issue is his height. He's undersized and has a lot of balls batted down at the line because of it. He can scramble but so far those play extensions are leading to nothing but sacks. The scoring is down. The yards per catch are down. The results are the same.

 

[LSCII]

The funniest part of this all is that I'm not a Mac guy or a Zappe guy. I just look at both and see the same limited player that needs studs at WR and a good o-line to succeed, which they won't get here. If I were Bill, I'd have actually skipped this Zappe experiment and gone straight to Cunningham. At least he brought a much different skill set and may have been able to overcome the lack of receiving options and shitty offensive line with his athleticism. But Mac or Zappe, or Zappe or Mac? Same shit different day.

 

[EvilDead]

The only truly asinine thing in all of this is the bizarre hatred people have of Bailey Zappe after starting like a whopping total of 5 NFL games. So um ya that is why I will cut him some slack. JFC. Maybe, just maybe with more time he develops into a guy who can play well for more than just a half. But that's obviously still better than a QB who can play well for 0 halves of football.

Maybe if Mac Jones wasn't set up to fail by his stubborn ass hat of a head coach, the Patriots would be in a better spot than they are right now. Maybe if Bill Belichick didn't bring on Matt Patricia and Joe Judge to run the offense and put players in "the dog house," the team would have better locker room cohesion than it does. Maybe if Bill didn't push Tom Brady out of town, the Patriots would have a seventh Lombardi in their cabinet. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I hear a lot of maybes. The stone cold reality is that Bill Belichick is to blame for f***ing this all up by sabotaging this team out of spite because everything has to be done "his way." The only reason Bailey Zappe does good because Bill allows him to do good by letting him play against tomato cans. When pushed against real opponents, Zappe crumbles. All the issues with this team begin and end with one person. Bill Belichick.

I also don't think you understood what I meant by bridge QB. To me a bridge QB is a pretty easy term to understand. At least in the context of how bad the Patriots are. Maybe you can go around .500 and be a fringe playoff team at the absolute peak. If the roster is stacked like the 49ers. That doesn't mean the Patriots will go that route. If they blow all the QBs out, draft a kid and sign a vet I am fine with that too. I have no expectation of this team being a legit playoff team for at least a couple years now based on how bad a job Belichick has done. Stop trying to turn this into me having some great affinity for Bailey Zappe.

Zappe won't be a bridge QB though. He'll be Tim Tebow 2.0 and undermine any guy the new coach of the Patriots want to put under center because the fan base has devolved into fair weather fannies who won't accept anything but this no name scrub from Western Kentucky under center. This is despite the fact that he absolutley sucks and plays worse than Mac Jones. Enough is enough! It's time for a change. Wholesale change. Punt Zappe to the unemployment line and bring in a new QB room. That's the only way this team is going to wash the stench of Belichick off of it.

What point are you trying to make here? That both of these guys actually suck? That all the QBs from the Mac Jones draft suck?

No point. Just found it funny that the supposed generational talent has similar stats to a guy universally derided by people.

 

[EvilDead]

Stronger arm yes. More accurate? No, in fact he's wildly inaccurate. Takes double the sacks? Yes. The biggest issue is his height. He's undersized and has a lot of balls batted down at the line because of it. He can scramble but so far those play extensions are leading to nothing but sacks. The scoring is down. The yards per catch are down. The results are the same.

The funniest part of this all is that I'm not a Mac guy or a Zappe guy. I just look at both and see the same limited player that needs studs at WR and a good o-line to succeed, which they won't get here. If I were Bill, I'd have actually skipped this Zappe experiment and gone straight to Cunningham. At least he brought a much different skill set and may have been able to overcome the lack of receiving options and shitty offensive line with his athleticism. But Mac or Zappe, or Zappe or Mac? Same shit different day.

That's what drives me nuts about all of this. The fact that Bill thinks a guy who takes more sacks, has a less accurate arm than Mac, and has fumbleitis among other things is somehow going to perform better with the same crap receiving core and O-Line is absolute madness. It is the textbook definition of insanity. And the fact that he was so stubborn and unwilling to give Malik Cunningham a shot and exposed him to be signed by the other 31 teams in the NFL speaks volumes about how out of touch Bill is with the current game. Cunningham may not be a good pocket passer. But the Patriots don't have the pieces to be a good pocket passing team anyway and Malik Cunningham would've hidden those flaws by having RPO options and QB runs that forces the opponent to take into account the run much more and buys time for your receiver core to get...SEPARATION! The thing the Patriots haven't been able to get in four years even if opposing defenses were giving it away for free. It would also dovetail well with the two back approach Bill's been shifting the team towards. How the hell can Dan Reeves get this right with Vick, Dunn, and Duckett in the early 2000s but Belichick absolutely botches it now? HOW?!?

 

[quietbruinfan]

Stronger arm yes. More accurate? No, in fact he's wildly inaccurate. Takes double the sacks? Yes. The biggest issue is his height. He's undersized and has a lot of balls batted down at the line because of it. He can scramble but so far those play extensions are leading to nothing but sacks. The scoring is down. The yards per catch are down. The results are the same.

I find it hard to believe he takes "double the sacks." Also one thing you don't mention, Mac has thrown three of his worst interceptions directly because he would not take a hit.....