2023 NHL Entry Draft

[NotProkofievian]

Wood would have put 2ppg with the Men's team rather than a measly 1ppg. Also, would have been the first 0.5 overall pick had he been eligible last year.

A 16 year old outproduced Slafkovsky's draft year performance in Liiga this year. Did you know that?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Rasmus Kupari, who himself had hockey IQ concerns, and is in no way even close to the athlete that Slaf is, outproduced Slafkovsky in his draft year, before being drafted in the 20's by L.A. He's done nothing so far in his career.

But sure, Slafkovsky is a genius. He may be smarter than Kucherov.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Rasmus Kupari, who himself had hockey IQ concerns, and is in no way even close to the athlete that Slaf is, outproduced Slafkovsky in his draft year, before being drafted in the 20's by L.A. He's done nothing so far in his career.

But sure, Slafkovsky is a genius. He may be smarter than Kucherov.

You’re the one hyping Woods IQ like he’s the 2nd cuming.

 

[Goldenhands]

A 16 year old outproduced Slafkovsky's draft year performance in Liiga this year. Did you know that?

Jordan Dumais was outproducing Connor Bedard this year in the CHL. Dumais the next generational foward.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Different strokes, but I think Wood has high bust potential

 

[NotProkofievian]

You’re the one hyping Woods IQ like he’s the 2nd cuming.

No, I'm saying he has high hockey IQ, whereas Slaf has below average hockey IQ. I've made an argument for why that's the case, and you've got nothing to say in response.

Jordan Dumais was outproducing Connor Bedard this year in the CHL. Dumais the next generational foward.

140 pts in 64 games is better than 143 pts in 57 games. A rare glimpse inside the mind of someone who thinks Slafkovsky has high hockey IQ.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

No, I'm saying he has high hockey IQ, whereas Slaf has below average hockey IQ. I've made an argument for why that's the case, and you've got nothing to say in response.



140 pts in 64 games is better than 143 pts in 57 games. A rare glimpse inside the mind of someone who thinks Slafkovsky has high hockey IQ.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Oh boy another f***ing thread about Slafkovsky's hockey IQ and Liiga stats, what a joy!

 

[Goldenhands]

Rasmus Kupari, who himself had hockey IQ concerns, and is in no way even close to the athlete that Slaf is, outproduced Slafkovsky in his draft year, before being drafted in the 20's by L.A. He's done nothing so far in his career.

But sure, Slafkovsky is a genius. He may be smarter than Kucherov.

You will understand the player one day NP, next year should be much better for Slaf, the team is gonna get younger, faster and Slaf will be better prepared.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Oh boy another f***ing thread about Slafkovsky's hockey IQ and Liiga stats, what a joy!

We can talk about Slaf's NHL stats too, if you like. It's not like the refute what I'm saying.

You will understand the player one day NP, next year should be much better for Slaf, the team is gonna get younger, faster and Slaf will be better prepared.

What's your theory for why Slaf sucked this year? He's an athletic freak, sick hands, moves really well for a big guy, he's competitive, and according to you he's actually got very good hockey IQ to go with it. And yet he just wasn't very good.

Why?

 

[McGees]

Which teams need and may take a goalie in the 1st?
We may need to use the (most likely) late FLA pick to get Hrabel

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

We can talk about Slaf's NHL stats too, if you like. It's not like the refute what I'm saying.



What's your theory for why Slaf sucked this year? He's an athletic freak, sick hands, moves really well for a big guy, he's competitive, and according to you he's actually got very good hockey IQ to go with it. And yet he just wasn't very good.

Why?

He was 18 and adjusting to a new team, new rink sizes, new culture and continent…

I’m not the biggest Slaf fan here, but he should end up a good player and last year means very little

Which teams need and may take a goalie in the 1st?
We may need to use the (most likely) late FLA pick to get Hrabel

Hrabel in the late first would be perfect for us, but not sure he lasts until that point.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I’m almost 100% we’re taking Reinbacher.

 

[Michoulicious]

He was 18 and adjusting to a new team, new rink sizes, new culture and continent…

I’m not the biggest Slaf fan here, but he should end up a good player and last year means very little


Hrabel in the late first would be perfect for us, but not sure he lasts until that point.

Hrabal was pretty bad at U18. But he's huge.

There is no goalie I'd draft before the late 2nd in this draft. Augustine is the most "polished" but he's small.

Not a great goalie class.

 

[NotProkofievian]

He was 18 and adjusting to a new team, new rink sizes, new culture and continent…

I’m not the biggest Slaf fan here, but he should end up a good player and last year means very little

So was KK, and yet KK was significantly more productive, despite being the inferior player physically, and skills wise. How does that work in your mind? I know you cannot bring yourself to say anything good about KK, but it seems pretty obvious to me that the only way this is possible is if KK was either lucky, or smarter. Lucky seems a stretch because he was also better in Liiga.

I'm not saying that Slaf won't be a good player. But it's obvious that the reason he didn't do well had nothing to do with the physical side of the game. He wasn't up to the task mentally.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

So was KK, and yet KK was significantly more productive, despite being the inferior player physically, and skills wise. How does that work in your mind? I know you cannot bring yourself to say anything good about KK, but it seems pretty obvious to me that the only way this is possible is if KK was either lucky, or smarter. Lucky seems a stretch because he was also better in Liiga.

I'm not saying that Slaf won't be a good player. But it's obvious that the reason he didn't do well had nothing to do with the physical side of the game. He wasn't up to the task mentally.

We clearly have a difference of philosophy here, I put way less stock into production especially when talking about guys playing way down in lineups.

 

[Jaynki]

Thanks fellas.

A (perhaps excessively) critical view on the situation is to say something like:
(1) Dvorsky was not able to earn more TOI despite being on a very bad team,
(2) his inability to produce against defenders who are not NHL-calibre does not indicate reason to be optimistic for when he has to produce against NHL-calibre defenders, and
(3) his inability to raise the game of his linemates indicates he is not yet a top-tier playmaker

Why should the Habs risk this important pick on a player with dubious production upside?

See what I'm getting at here?

With top picks should only draft players who have either (1) actually obliterated their peers (ie were too good for their league) or (2) have set performance benchmarks that have historically indicated greatness to come (eg their production rates in various leagues).

The argument for (1) is obvious: the NHL is the pinnacle of the sport and no one is entitled to thrive in the NHL unless they'd surely obliterate their lesser-than-NHL leagues -- this is why the criticisms of Mesar's underwhelming year are valid (though not conclusive, development is a process that cannot be rushed), in D+1 Mesar has not been able to stand out in the CHL, he is therefore very far from the NHL and his stock has lowered.

The argument for (2) is also obvious: if the player cannot obliterate the field, then at least his numbers must be at certain benchmarks that have correlated with success in the NHL. This is what everybody is saying about Michkov for instance -- that his numbers, at his age, are strongly indicating future success.

Personally, I don't care about "200ft" game, I don't care about "intangibles", I don't care about "he plays the game the right way", and unless it affects his ability to produce in the NHL I don't care about his size or speed even, etc. All that stuff is secondary to the fact we need a big time point producer. He needs to be a forward, C or W (preferably C), and he needs to demonstrate he can be relied on to produce like a workhorse. It's not too much to ask for the Habs to draft for production upside instead of drafting for "hates to lose more than likes to win" or whatever pop-psych drafting nonsense we suffered under the previous regime.

You are raising some very good points and i do agree with most of them.

In the specific case of Dvorsky and the 2023 NHL draft, the complexity is that we can't compare Smith and Dvorsky on an equal playing field for example. We don't how Smith or Leonard would have fared in the Allvenskan in a similar role to Dvorsky.

I personally believe there is more of stylistic difference between Smith and Dvorsky then there is a gap in talent. They are both elite within their own force. Dvorsky obliterated the J20 like it has rarely been seen. (Like Smith in the USNTDP)

There is also a plethora of example of player under-producing in Euro league and becoming elite top 6er. (Lucas Raymond, Sebastian Aho) As much as there is example of productive player in Euro league flopping/disappointing (Alex Holtz, Will Eklund, Kakko). Its very different to evaluate a teenager out of Europe in the pro leagues. There is a lot of subtility in it and Lecavalier raised good points about that in his pre-draft speech in 2022.

If you pick Dvorsky at 5, it is not because of his intagibles and responsible games. They are secondary attributes and simple constituant of his play style. You pick him there because you expect him to be that big time point producer.

i think we all agree Michkov is the biggest talent in the draft after Bedard and an immediate star. The bottom line is that the Habs cannot fail their top selection this year. It would be a franchise killing move. It would kill the momentum of the rebuild. On this specific case, i will stand with the organisation decision because Michkov is such an obvious pick that if they don't make it, i think we can safely speculate that the due diligence have been inconclusive. Even if Dvorsky or Leonard or Benson become only 60 points player, if Michkov don't come, it is a steep opportunity price to pay and a major wasted opportunity, let alone if one of them becomes a 1C or a top line player.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Hrabal was pretty bad at U18. But he's huge.

There is no goalie I'd draft before the late 2nd in this draft. Augustine is the most "polished" but he's small.

Not a great goalie class.

What? Hrabel was for the most part highly impressive. Huge, athletic, technically sounds, he kept Czech in games where they were clearly outclassed

 

[Michoulicious]

What? Hrabel was for the most part highly impressive. Huge, athletic, technically sounds, he kept Czech in games where they were clearly outclassed

Was not convinced about his technique at all... But yeah, he is huge. Has good odds of being the first goalie picked.

 

[Goldenhands]

We can talk about Slaf's NHL stats too, if you like. It's not like the refute what I'm saying.



What's your theory for why Slaf sucked this year? He's an athletic freak, sick hands, moves really well for a big guy, he's competitive, and according to you he's actually got very good hockey IQ to go with it. And yet he just wasn't very good.

Why?

For god sake, he played in the NHL in his D+1, what were you expecting?? Kid is still raw, needs to keep adjusting to the lack of time and space of the NHL, he is still growing into his body, still need to mature physically and as a hockey player. I mean, I had 0 expectation when it came to his offensive production in his D+1, NHL is a tough league and few kids can make it post draft. Slaf is still green and because he is huge already doesnt mean he is a finished product, thats actually the opposite since big kids usually take longer to mature and reach their prime.

Most 1st OV in recent history are either not starting in the NHL right away or struggling there.

Jiricek, Nemec, Cooley, Wright ect all played at inferior levels post draft year.

 

[Mrb1p]

Perry had elite IQ, not sure Woods got that.

What?

I’m not sure about that, Woods got some good offensive instincts, but the IQ isn’t a notch better than Slafs.

What the f***?

140 pts in 64 games is better than 143 pts in 57 games. A rare glimpse inside the mind of someone who thinks Slafkovsky has high hockey IQ.

Lmao thats hilarious

I’m almost 100% we’re taking ReiReinbacher

I f***ing hope so. That would be amazing.

Anything but Dvorsky if were at 5.

 

[NotProkofievian]

We clearly have a difference of philosophy here, I put way less stock into production especially when talking about guys playing way down in lineups.

I just think you don't have any answers, dude.

 

[Mrb1p]

For god sake, he played in the NHL in his D+1, what were you expecting?? Kid is still raw, needs to keep adjusting to the lack of time and space of the NHL, he is still growing into his body, still need to mature physically and as a hockey player. I mean, I had 0 expectation when it came to his offensive production in his D+1, NHL is a tough league and few kids can make it post draft. Slaf is still green and because he is huge already doesnt mean he is a finished product, thats actually the opposite since big kids usually take longer to mature and reach their prime.

Most 1st OV in recent history are either not starting in the NHL right away or struggling there.

Jiricek, Nemec, Cooley, Wright ect all played in at inferior level post draft year.

NP raises a good point. Why was a weaker, slower, younger and less skilled kotkaniemi better in the NHL, in a tougher situation than Slafkovsky was?

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I just think you don't have any answers, dude.

There are way too many variables to just compare production vs production. Should be obvious but for some it’s not clearly…

There are a handful of players in this draft I’d take over Slaf. Wood is not one of them.

What?

What the f***?

Lmao thats hilarious

I f***ing hope so. That would be amazing.

Anything but Dvorsky if were at 5.

Not surprised that you’re a big fan of Wood.

 

[Jaynki]

Rasmus Kupari, who himself had hockey IQ concerns, and is in no way even close to the athlete that Slaf is, outproduced Slafkovsky in his draft year, before being drafted in the 20's by L.A. He's done nothing so far in his career.

But sure, Slafkovsky is a genius. He may be smarter than Kucherov.

Samuel Poulin outproduced Kirby Dach in their draft year.

William Eklund and Alexander Holtz both massively outproduced Lucas Raymond.

Ryan Strome almost doubled Landeskog production in their draft year. Dylan Strome outproduced a plethora of other CHLers.

Kakko is the 2nd most productive 18YO in the Liiga after Barkov, ahead of Laine and many other Finnish star.

Wanna know Aho production in his draft year?l

Lane Hutson more than doubled Owen Power production.

A f***ing dwarf defenseman outproduced the 1st overall pick in 2021! (See how easy those discourse are)

Want more?

Its just one variable of the complex equation.