2023 NHL Entry Draft Discussion - Draft Lottery Edition

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2023 NHL Entry Draft Discussion

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[Canucks LB]

I was going to hold of on my list until the Tournament is over.
Lots of people tho are asking for my updated list, So decided to share (Currently).
I also think It's important to mention, I was NOT expecting to change my list much due to a Tournament, But there are a few players that have stood out Good + Bad for me, to the point it did have an effect.

Here we go! Draft Rankings (Top 10) Not a Mock Draft.

#1 - Bedard
#2 - Adam Fantilli
#3 - Matvei Michkov
#4 - Will Smith
#5 - Leo Carlsson
#6 - Zach Benson
#7 - Eduard Sale
#8 - Oliver Moore
#9 - David Reinbacher
#10 - Samuel Honzek

Biggest Riser - Will Smith, Eduard Sale, Samuel Honzek
Biggest Faller - Andrew Cristall, Dalivor Dvorsky, Colby Barlow

Quick Summary : Eduard Sale is my biggest Riser, I had him outside my top 15, I decided to focus heavily on him, and Boy have I came out impressed. He has a work Ethic Problem, It's Evident, But his pure Natural Talent is impressive, and most importantly, Translatable to the NHL.
Incredibly intelligent, Especially in the offensive Zone, Rarely makes the wrong play, Strong with the Puck, and has serious hands. He reminds me of a Shorter Tage Thompson.

Samuel Honzek is somebody I watched a lot recently, Took a ton of time looking at Highlights, Clips, Even had a chance to see a few full games.
I also saw him live a Couple of times, and there is something there.
He eats people along the boards, is aggressive (Sometimes a bit much, gets out of position), and even tho people say he also has a work ethic problem, I never seemed to notice this. His control with the puck at full speed, it kind of reminds me of Less hitting version of Alex Tuch (Skates a bit worse), Just drives constantly. What's weird tho, It's not like he is a physical player, but has tenacity, Kind of like Hansen in a way as well.
He also has nice sneaky fast shot, Really liking him as a prospect.

That's about it for now.

Ill give a more Detailed Version of my Full Thoughts and Final Rankings near the final Rankings time.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Stay the f*** away from someone who has a work ethic problem.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Carlsson fifth huh. Some think he should be 2nd.

 

[Knight53]

Let Thomas Gradin work his magic

 

[alternate]

Why a top 10 and not a top 12? This year a top 12 seem to make more sense.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

ASP please!

 

[PuckMunchkin]

@racerjoe "Yes trading Kuze is living in a fantasy world..."

(mod)
I think the only reason that makes sense, that they did this worst of both worlds 2 yr extension is what MS speculated.

They had already agreed to it when they initially signed him. Its really a shame.

 

[racerjoe]

I think the only reason that makes sense, that they did this worst of both worlds 2 yr extension is what MS speculated.

They had already agreed to it when they initially signed him. Its really a shame.

Sure I can go along with the contract already being there for Kuze... that doesn't mean trading a 40 goal scorer like that isn't absolutely insane and living in a fantasy world.

Who is dying on a hill here. The one saying yeah we lost two spots, or the one thinking we could have been top five, and we it was a good idea to sell a 40 goal guy for a 2nd round pick?

Talk about stupid posts.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Sure I can go along with the contract already being there for Kuze... that doesn't mean trading a 40 goal scorer like that isn't absolutely insane and living in a fantasy world.

I think we traded a 38 goal scorer this TDL.... But then again I live in a fantasy world.

Who is dying on a hill here. The one saying yeah we lost two spots, or the one thinking we could have been top five, and we it was a good idea to sell a 40 goal guy for a 2nd round pick?

5th is hard to get to.

7th easily.

If you get to invent what the return is, so do I. I think we should have taken the 3 first rounders for him that we would have gotten.

Talk about stupid posts.

Keep digging.

 

[racerjoe]

I think we traded a 38 goal scorer this TDL.... But then again I live in a fantasy world.


5th is hard to get to.

7th easily.

If you get to invent what the return is, so do I. I think we should have taken the 3 first rounders for him that we would have gotten.


Keep digging.

Widely reported as a second by multiple sources...

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Widely reported as a second by multiple sources...

"We could very easily see a playoff-bound team giving up a first-round pick plus a second-round pick or a decently high-rated prospect."

Using comparables to determine Andrei Kuzmenko’s trade value for the Canucks

The heart wants what it wants but the brain knows what it needs<i>.</i...

canucksarmy.com

"What could the Canucks have received in a trade before the deadline? I believe they could have negotiated a first-round pick in return for Kuzmenko."

Why did the Canucks sign, rather than trade, Andrei Kuzmenko?

The Canucks re-signed Andrei Kuzmenko to a two-year extension, but some will wonder: should the struggling team have traded him for futures instead?

www.sportsnet.ca

Only thing I've read about a 2nd rounder is Dhaliwal saying he hears the minimum asking price by the Canucks is a 2nd. I don't believe that to be true. That would be idiotic. While I don't agree with the management groups overall strategy, they are not idiots.

I'm sure you wouldn't just make up this being "widely reported by multiple sources..." so can you show me said sources.

 

[racerjoe]

"We could very easily see a playoff-bound team giving up a first-round pick plus a second-round pick or a decently high-rated prospect."

Using comparables to determine Andrei Kuzmenko’s trade value for the Canucks

The heart wants what it wants but the brain knows what it needs<i>.</i...

canucksarmy.com

"What could the Canucks have received in a trade before the deadline? I believe they could have negotiated a first-round pick in return for Kuzmenko."

Why did the Canucks sign, rather than trade, Andrei Kuzmenko?

The Canucks re-signed Andrei Kuzmenko to a two-year extension, but some will wonder: should the struggling team have traded him for futures instead?

www.sportsnet.ca

Only thing I've read about a 2nd rounder is Dhaliwal saying he hears the minimum asking price by the Canucks is a 2nd. I don't believe that to be true. That would be idiotic. While I don't agree with the management groups overall strategy, they are not idiots.

I'm sure you wouldn't just make up this being "widely reported by multiple sources..." so can you show me said sources.

I don't really want to search, but look you have Dhaliwal saying one thing, and another guy saying maybe they could have. Then a second article saying they should have... what you have posted I would say is much more in my favour. But if you really want sure a late first. Thats still terrible value... period for a 40 goal scorer.

You brought up Bo, who got 3 assets. 2 probably higher value than that late first.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I was going to hold of on my list until the Tournament is over.
Lots of people tho are asking for my updated list, So decided to share (Currently).
I also think It's important to mention, I was NOT expecting to change my list much due to a Tournament, But there are a few players that have stood out Good + Bad for me, to the point it did have an effect.

Here we go! Draft Rankings (Top 10) Not a Mock Draft.

#1 - Bedard
#2 - Adam Fantilli
#3 - Matvei Michkov
#4 - Will Smith
#5 - Leo Carlsson
#6 - Zach Benson
#7 - Eduard Sale
#8 - Oliver Moore
#9 - David Reinbacher
#10 - Samuel Honzek

Biggest Riser - Will Smith, Eduard Sale, Samuel Honzek
Biggest Faller - Andrew Cristall, Dalivor Dvorsky, Colby Barlow

Quick Summary : Eduard Sale is my biggest Riser, I had him outside my top 15, I decided to focus heavily on him, and Boy have I came out impressed. He has a work Ethic Problem, It's Evident, But his pure Natural Talent is impressive, and most importantly, Translatable to the NHL.
Incredibly intelligent, Especially in the offensive Zone, Rarely makes the wrong play, Strong with the Puck, and has serious hands. He reminds me of a Shorter Tage Thompson.

Samuel Honzek is somebody I watched a lot recently, Took a ton of time looking at Highlights, Clips, Even had a chance to see a few full games.
I also saw him live a Couple of times, and there is something there.
He eats people along the boards, is aggressive (Sometimes a bit much, gets out of position), and even tho people say he also has a work ethic problem, I never seemed to notice this. His control with the puck at full speed, it kind of reminds me of Less hitting version of Alex Tuch (Skates a bit worse), Just drives constantly. What's weird tho, It's not like he is a physical player, but has tenacity, Kind of like Hansen in a way as well.
He also has nice sneaky fast shot, Really liking him as a prospect.

That's about it for now.

Ill give a more Detailed Version of my Full Thoughts and Final Rankings near the final Rankings time.

Sale is a mixed one for me. He can play the game on offense any way he needs to. Turns from passer to shooter as needed. A little board work too. He's just glacial at times. He's the opposite of a high motor guy. Risky in that sense.

Cristall I'm also ranking down a bit. He just gets eaten alive on defense and on board battles. Tries low percentage plays too often.

I think the players that should go in the top6 are as follows:

1. Bedard
2. Fantilli
3. Carlsson
4. Michkov
5. Benson
6. Smith

Then it's the next batch:

ASP, Reinbacher, Moore, Simashev, Sale, Wood, Perrault, Leonard, Danielson, Cristall and Honzek.

That's how I have it so far.

Perrault is intriguing, but his skating needs a lot of work.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I don't really want to search, but look you have Dhaliwal saying one thing, and another guy saying maybe they could have. Then a second article saying they should have... what you have posted I would say is much more in my favour. But if you really want sure a late first. Thats still terrible value... period for a 40 goal scorer.

You brought up Bo, who got 3 assets. 2 probably higher value than that late first.

No they are saying two very different things that can both be true at the same time.

Dhaliwal is saying that the asking price is at least a 2nd. That does not say that the return is widely reported only a 2nd.
Respectable sources say the return should be a 1st and maybe more.


So you do think Bo was actually traded and that was not me living in fantasy land? Interesting.

If someone told you before last summer that we could generate an extra 1st rounder for an ELC would you have taken it?
I can also tell you that Kuzmenkos value will never be as high in a trade as it was this TDL. League min contract on ~40 goal pace.
I can also tell you we wont compete for anything for the duration of the contract and he will be an UFA after it ends.

So. Yes. I would take the 1st and run. Its found money. They turned it in to more cap tied at wings.

 

[racerjoe]

No they are saying two very different things that can both be true at the same time.

Dhaliwal is saying that the asking price is at least a 2nd. That does not say that the return is widely reported only a 2nd.
Respectable sources say the return should be a 1st and maybe more.


So you do think Bo was actually traded and that was not me living in fantasy land? Interesting.

If someone told you before last summer that we could generate an extra 1st rounder for an ELC would you have taken it?
I can also tell you that Kuzmenkos value will never be as high in a trade as it was this TDL. League min contract on ~40 goal pace.
I can also tell you we wont compete for anything for the duration of the contract and he will be an UFA after it ends.

So. Yes. I would take the 1st and run. Its found money. They turned it in to more cap tied at wings.

Oh my god...

I concede a point (even though I don't agree) you still want to debate... and I think you made it worse for yourself.

The ask for Schenn was reported to be a second, and the ended up with as 3rd... thats how asking prices go. down Not up. That was a point I conceded to you too... but you couldn't just take the point.

Also the Faber article speculates he could return up to a 1st... as in that would be the top out, and that is the only thing you referenced. So no you didn't find multiple.

As for the Bo thing... they tried to sign him and couldn't as he wanted way too much money for what he was worth. Also the trading of him isn't the point... it is the trading a 40 goal scorer for a second. See the difference? Probably not.

 

[VanJack]

Had a weird dream that the Canucks won the draft lottery, but Bedard came up on the podium with crutches. Was probably just having J.J. Daigneault flashbacks.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Oh my god...

I concede a point (even though I don't agree) you still want to debate... and I think you made it worse for yourself.

I like it that these are not mutually exclusive for you.

That is the kind of double think it takes to buy in to this retool.

The ask for Schenn was reported to be a second, and the ended up with as 3rd... thats how asking prices go. down Not up. That was a point I conceded to you too... but you couldn't just take the point.

Also the Faber article speculates he could return up to a 1st... as in that would be the top out, and that is the only thing you referenced. So no you didn't find multiple.

Ok here is two more:

"A player like Kuzmenko would have a lot of value around the league right now. He’s a rare player who is an unrestricted free agent at season’s end in addition to being a rookie (though ineligible for the Calder Trophy thanks to his age). Being on an entry-level deal, he’s also cheap, and any team looking to trade for him would easily be able to fit him onto their cap sheet for this season. That means a higher number of potential suitors for Kuzmenko, and it isn’t difficult to imagine he would net a larger return than Bo Horvat, especially since teams know he can play effectively with top players and on the power play."

The Canucks need to cash in on a golden opportunity and trade Andrei Kuzmenko

The Canucks need to get better, and keeping the same group together doesn’t help the team come closer to becoming a contender.

theathletic.com

The Stars could also offer 2019 first-round pick, defenceman Thomas Harley in the trade for Kuzmenko. They can also throw in a draft pick with one of the players involved. Since they don’t have their 2023 first-round pick, they could offer their 2023 second-rounder pick or their 2024 first-rounder.

Canucks Potential Trade Partners for Kuzmenko - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

NHL teams have shown interest in Vancouver Canucks forward Andrei Kuzmenko. Here are three trade partners for Kuzmenko.

thehockeywriters.com

As for the Bo thing... they tried to sign him and couldn't as he wanted way too much money for what he was worth. Also the trading of him isn't the point... it is the trading a 40 goal scorer for a second. See the difference? Probably not.

You said trading a 40 goal scorer is fantasy.
Bo Horvat was on pace for more than 40 goals and was traded by our organization.

They prioritized signing other players like JT Miller, Ilya Mikheyev and Mr Kuzmenko him self.

 

[Hoglander]

I'd love the Canucks to get Smith, based purely on the meme potential. After every goal he scores: that pic of Will Smith slapping Chris Rock, but with the other team's logo covering Rock's face.

 

[LemonSauceD]

My final top 32:

Tier 1
1. Bedard (C)
2. Michkov (F)
3. Fantilli (C)
4. Carlsson (C/W)
5. Benson (LW)
6. Smith (C)

Tier 2
7. Reinbacher (RHD)
8. Yager (C)
9. ASP (RHD)
10. Wood (RW)
11. Perrault (LW)
12. Sale (F)

Tier 3
13. Moore (C/F)
14. Leonard (RW)
15. Dvorsky (C)
16. Simashev (LHD)
17. Barlow (W)
18. Honzek (C)
19. Ritchie (C)
20. Danielson (C)
21. Willander (RHD)
22. Lardis (C/W)
23. Musty (LW/RW)
24. Dragicevic (RHD)

Tier 4
25. Cristall (LW/RW)
26. Gulyayev (LHD)
27. Heidt (C)
28. Price (LHD)
29. Stenberg (F)
30. Brzustewicz (RHD)
31. Gauthier (LW)
32. Haltunnen (LW/RW)

 

[Canucks LB]

Sale is mixed one for me. He can play the game on offense any way he needs to. Turns from passer to shooter as needed. A little board work too. He's just glacial at times. He's the opposite of a high motor guy. Risky in that sense.

Cristall I'm also ranking down a bit. He just gets eaten alive on defense and on board battles. Tries low percentage plays too often.

I think the players that should go in the top6 are as follows:

1. Bedard
2. Fantilli
3. Carlsson
4. Michkov
5. Benson
6. Smith

Then it's the next batch:

ASP, Reinbacher, Moore, Simashev, Sale, Wood, Perrault, Leonard, Danielson, Cristall and Honzek.

That's how I have it so far.

Perrault is intriguing, but his skating needs a lot of work.

Swinging for a guy like Perrault would be interesting.

I would be alright with it

 

[Peter Griffin]

Is there actually an argument going on in this thread that they would’ve been better off trading Kuzmenko for a late 1st rather than re-sign him to the deal they did?

 

[Vector]

Is there actually an argument going on in this thread that they would’ve been better off trading Kuzmenko for a late 1st rather than re-sign him to the deal they did?

Couldn't be. That would be silly.

 

[sting101]

Couple more U18 games in the books

My take on the draft eligibles

Trending up = CAN - Wood Dragicevic Gibson SWE - Wahlberg Stenberg Wallinder SLO - Strbak Pekarcik Kukumberg US - Nelson Smith Leonard Perreault (yes i know that trio is already high but man are they dominant Boston College should be fun to watch next year) FIN - Haltunnen

Disappointing High profiles = CAN - Cristall Price Barlow CZE - Sale SLO - Dvorsky (only because his speed as he's a good player with a NHL frame)

Some younger players who have looked unreal are CAN Celebrini US Eiserman FIN Kiviharju and another young RD stud from the Jiricek family in CZE Adam Jiricek.

Dont come at me yet it's only 1-2 games as i'm not watching games against NOR LAT SWI GRM and making any conclusions as that's not even a good junior team to compare it against so not really interested in using that data. Will have a better write up with a rankings list after the tourney.

 

[Canucks LB]

Couple more U18 games in the books

My take on the draft eligibles

Trending up = CAN - Wood Dragicevic Gibson SWE - Wahlberg Stenberg Wallinder SLO - Strbak Pekarcik Kukumberg US - Nelson Smith Leonard Perreault (yes i know that trio is already high but man are they dominant Boston College should be fun to watch next year) FIN - Haltunnen

Disappointing High profiles = CAN - Cristall Price Barlow CZE - Sale SLO - Dvorsky (only because his speed as he's a good player with a NHL frame)

Some younger players who have looked unreal are CAN Celebrini US Eiserman FIN Kiviharju and another young RD stud from the Jiricek family in CZE Adam Jiricek.

Dont come at me yet it's only 1-2 games as i'm not watching games against NOR LAT SWI GRM and making any conclusions as that's not even a good junior team to compare it against so not really interested in using that data. Will have a better write up with a rankings list after the tourney.

We battle now with sale opinions!