Celtics/NBA 2023-2024 Regular Season
- Thread starter smithformeragent
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LSCII
Cup driven
Trading Brown for Lillard is the wrong way to go, if that's the plan. Lillard is turning 33 in a few days and on the back 9, which is why he's asking out of Portland. He wants to win before he's done.
I do not know Basketball, and I do like Brown, but Basketball stars seem to have a longer career to me then Hockey stars. If Lillard is still a top 5 player in the league and I thought he was, then definitely I would trade Brown for him. Only Tatum would be untouchable. I would require an extension as part of the deal. I want him for the next 4-6 years. Sucks losing Jaylen, like when they Kendrick go a long time back, but hell yeah I am going to do everything posssible to improve for this season and to improve this current window. I think that's where we disagree?
Do you think Jaylen is the better player today? If not today, how many seasons until you believe Jaylen will pass Damian? Is there any other factor besides age and skill; it seeems the money is pretty even with both being on Max/SuperMax deals?
LSCII
Cup driven
I think Brown is the better player because he's still getting better, while Lillard is what he is. He's also a guy that is a ball dominant kind of dude. Takes over 20 shots a game, which doesn't work particularly well with Tatum, since the offense runs through him. You're already adding Porzingas and his shots too, so how many balls are there to go around? If the choice is to move Brown for Lillard, then I keep Brown because of the upside. 6 years is a long time in the NBA. Brown will still be playing while Lillard is long retired. Lillard can score, but the team didn't really struggle in scoring. It struggled with mental lapses and I don't see how Lillard fixes that given his teams have really been marginal and not won anything. Good player on a bad team, but a lot of unknowns about how he'd fit here. We already know with Brown how they work, and that's a squad that's consistently made it to the Conference finals and even the NBA finals.
McGarnagle
Yes.
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Hypothetically speaking, if you had to choose one path would it be
A. Continue as they have been, which is another 5 or 6 years with this core and finishing top 2 in the conference and top 4 in the league, being a regular conference finalist trading off with the Bucks and Heat, likely making the finals a couple times, maybe finding a year where everything falls absolutely right for them, but no guarantees you make it out of that window with anything
B. Make a blockbuster trade that will shorten that window to like 2 years but turn you into overwhelming championship favorites for those years, but having to rebuild again afterwards
That's basically what I'm interpreting the Brown/Lillard conversation as
A. Continue as they have been, which is another 5 or 6 years with this core and finishing top 2 in the conference and top 4 in the league, being a regular conference finalist trading off with the Bucks and Heat, likely making the finals a couple times, maybe finding a year where everything falls absolutely right for them, but no guarantees you make it out of that window with anything
B. Make a blockbuster trade that will shorten that window to like 2 years but turn you into overwhelming championship favorites for those years, but having to rebuild again afterwards
That's basically what I'm interpreting the Brown/Lillard conversation as
I agree and I would take B, because noone knows what will be in 3 years in the sports world. I do think that LSCII might contend Lillard is not giving you the upside of option B. If that's the case I would stay away. Lillard would have to make the team the overwhelming favorite at the moment of the deal with the expectation that they would remain an elite (top 3) contender in year 2.
KrejciMVP
Registered User
I get so confused by this board at times. Everyone wants to win Championships, but then are afraid to make moves towards winning chamionships.
Obviously we have people killing Sweeney because he went all in this year, which almost everyone wanted, but then with injuries and poor performances causing a first round exit, he is an idiot, and should have tanked last year instead.
Brown for Lillard makes the Celtics substantially better for the next 2-3 years. Brown is a good player, but not a perfect fit next to Tatum. Lilard is a substantially better player, and is a much better fit on this roster. You are shrinking the window to some degree for sure, but you are increasing the probability of winning within that window
LSCII
Cup driven
What makes you so convinced Lillard is a winner? Dude has played on some terrible teams and amassed stats but that's it. He's 4-8 in the playoffs for his career. Brown is 12-6.
But again, how does having a ball dominant PG help Tatum? Lillard isn't a second fiddle to anyone for his career, while Brown has at least accepted the 1B designation. Is Lillard really going to take a passive approach while they run the offense through Tatum? He's a dude that takes 20 shots a night on his own, you add in Tatum's 20+ shots a night and how does Lillard stay happy? I wasn't a huge Marcus guy, but he worked at PG because he wasn't shooting all that much (9.9 FGA last year).. So how does a 10 shot per night guy get replaced with a dude throwing up twice that, and have it still work with everyone happy? I don't see it. And that doesn't even talk about Porzingas and his 15+ shots per night. There's only one ball to go around. Having that many players who are ball dominant and need the rock to play well is a recipe for disaster, IMO.
Troublesome 85
Proud Girl Dad
KrejciMVP
Registered User
I am open to the move bc when Tatum and Brown are off they play some of the worst bball ive ever witnessed. would try anything new
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
I'm not really sure swapping Brown for Dame increases your title chances all that much for the next two seasons, but it definitely makes them worse for the years after that.
Gotta add him without Brown involved.
Gotta add him without Brown involved.
Think they could pull that off ?? They have a lot of picks accumulated again...
Shaun
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payton pritchard isn’t good enough to be getting into bar fights on the cape send him back to oregon
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Not saying it'll happen, but Kevin Garnett absolutely did not want to come to Boston at first, either.
DangleCity
Registered User
- Jun 23, 2016
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People are underestimating how good Dame is. When all is said and done he may be top 50 all time. Swapping Brown for Dame gives the Celtics a top tier big, wing, and ball handler. I would do the trade
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Sure, but you also have to factor in age.
And Jaylen is a top 20 (25 at worst) player in this league right now. He's not a scrub.
KrejciMVP
Registered User
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
He was really bad, but there is a chance his f***ed up hand was a much bigger problem than they let on.
KG and Pierce should be on the phone with Lillard, imo
Himmelsbach is saying the Celtics aren't in the mix for Lillard but are in position to make a "seismic strike" in the future. Don't see how they can though, the second tax apron takes away most the flexibility to add another star player and they will be a second apron team in 2024 no matter what.
It feels like this season is the only chance they will get of making a legit big 4 and they should be trying to do it. I don't care if Lillard only wants Miami, he signed an extension last year and already wants out, this isn't like Anthony Davis where he could leave in free agency a year after if the Celtics traded for him when he was still with New Orleans. Any contender who could add him should be willing to take the risk on a point guard who averaged 32.2 ppg last season.
A trade like this would work financially
Lillard to Boston
White, R. Williams, Marcus Morris, Amir Coffey, Celtics 2024 First Round Pick, Warriors 2024 First Round Pick, 2025 Clippers First Round Pick, 2026 Celtics First Round Pick, 2030 Celtics First Round Pick with Pick Swaps in 2025, 2027 and 2029 to Portland
Brogdon to Clippers
Lillard, Brown, Tatum, Porzingis and Horford would be your starting 5 with Pritchard, Hauser, Brissett and Walsh on the bench before you add any potential vet ring chasers.
It feels like this season is the only chance they will get of making a legit big 4 and they should be trying to do it. I don't care if Lillard only wants Miami, he signed an extension last year and already wants out, this isn't like Anthony Davis where he could leave in free agency a year after if the Celtics traded for him when he was still with New Orleans. Any contender who could add him should be willing to take the risk on a point guard who averaged 32.2 ppg last season.
A trade like this would work financially
Lillard to Boston
White, R. Williams, Marcus Morris, Amir Coffey, Celtics 2024 First Round Pick, Warriors 2024 First Round Pick, 2025 Clippers First Round Pick, 2026 Celtics First Round Pick, 2030 Celtics First Round Pick with Pick Swaps in 2025, 2027 and 2029 to Portland
Brogdon to Clippers
Lillard, Brown, Tatum, Porzingis and Horford would be your starting 5 with Pritchard, Hauser, Brissett and Walsh on the bench before you add any potential vet ring chasers.
That bench gets absolutely mutilated, we’d have to hope for some serious development from those guys
McGarnagle
Yes.
- Aug 5, 2017
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The best storyline that the NBA creative team could write for the upcoming season is a Lillard for Brown trade followed by Kyrie signing in Portland and the Blazers and Celtics meeting in the finals next year
The bench sucks but the regular season is meaningless and depth isn't as important in the playoffs. 36 Year old Jeff Green on his 9th team in 8 years got the 7th most minutes in the playoffs for the Nuggets. Grab a couple of minimum guys like Biyombo or Noel with a Winslow or Barton and the bench is fine if they pulled off a Lillard trade.
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