Speculation: 2023-2024 Kraken Roster Discussion

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
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Whidbey Island, WA
I don't think the need for a scorer is really what plagues this team. They have a lot of good shooters, but they have a giant, gaping hole at the 1C position.

This team needs a strong top line pivot more than anything. Someone that can be a difference maker at even strength and take over games on the PP. If they somehow could fill that position, I think this team would likely score a ton of goals scoring by committee.

A 50 goal scorer would be a great add, but I'm honestly not sure any goal scorers score 50 playing with the centers Seattle currently has on the roster.
100%. I really like Beniers but the kid has to improve considerably to become a true 1C. He can do it for sure but needs to put on some muscle, become stronger on his feet, start winning more board battles. The potential is there though. Hopefully he can get there.

I think we need more high-end playmakers. Like you said, the shooters are there and scoring by committee can work with those playmakers. Honestly, any top-end playmakers would be a welcome addition. Does not matter if they come at F or at D. Looking at our roster, almost every team has 1-2 better forwards than our best 2 forwards. Even the crappy teams do.
 

dylanmacarthur

RonFrancis dēlenda est
Nov 8, 2013
100
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This just seems really oversimplified to me. Given what we had available in the expansion draft, where was this "great" team going to emerge from, a hill of magic beans? Outside of Vegas, instant success has never been open to expansion teams. And who was going to take enough of our middle ground, mediocre players off our hands and give us the high draft choices needed to build an elite prospect pool? You are talking about situations there were never realistically going to happen in the real world. Francis has played the hand he was dealt, and I can't fault him for not being able to do the impossible.

Again, my preference would have been tanking straight out of the gate. We got there eventually (we're 25th in the standings with no hope on the horizon short term) because Ron Francis doesn't know how to build a team, and Hakstol doesn't know how to coach a team, but this is the result of incompetence by them not a measured strategic approach.

I provided some examples of better moves Francis could have made during the expansion draft already, and there have been tons of analyses done on all the missed opportunities by Francis (just google it).

You raise a great point - who would take middle ground, mediocre players for draft picks? Nobody, so it's curious that Francis left a bunch of desirable trade bait assets on the table, ostensibly to "preserve cap flexibility" (why, for a team not desiring to win near-term? Nobody knows! And how did that cap flexibility play out for fielding a competitive team? Not good!)

Fistfullofbeer points out we need a good team to keep fans engaged to defend Francis's actions, which is odd when we're watching a terrible Kraken team night after night.

Francis must be fired ASAP. The Kraken will never go anywhere with him at the helm. He has no strategy at all and is simply making the most conservative possible moves across the board because that's who he is. He's not a good GM at all and never has been.
 

Irie

Registered User
Nov 14, 2010
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Pacific Northwest
Again, my preference would have been tanking straight out of the gate. We got there eventually (we're 25th in the standings with no hope on the horizon short term) because Ron Francis doesn't know how to build a team, and Hakstol doesn't know how to coach a team, but this is the result of incompetence by them not a measured strategic approach.

I provided some examples of better moves Francis could have made during the expansion draft already, and there have been tons of analyses done on all the missed opportunities by Francis (just google it).

You raise a great point - who would take middle ground, mediocre players for draft picks? Nobody, so it's curious that Francis left a bunch of desirable trade bait assets on the table, ostensibly to "preserve cap flexibility" (why, for a team not desiring to win near-term? Nobody knows! And how did that cap flexibility play out for fielding a competitive team? Not good!)

Fistfullofbeer points out we need a good team to keep fans engaged to defend Francis's actions, which is odd when we're watching a terrible Kraken team night after night.

Francis must be fired ASAP. The Kraken will never go anywhere with him at the helm. He has no strategy at all and is simply making the most conservative possible moves across the board because that's who he is. He's not a good GM at all and never has been.

You come into the roster discussion thread every few moths to post rants about firing Francis.

This is the ROSTER thread. You want to talk about firing Francis, make a Fire Francis thread or necro-bump the Francis GM hire thread and rant away there.

While you are here, why don't you post your thoughts or preferences on roster building going forward? But I do want to remind you that the random "Francis Sucks" posts are not productive in this particular thread and totally off topic and are likely to end up getting you on more ignore lists than generating responses on the subject.
 

Irie

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Nov 14, 2010
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Pacific Northwest
100%. I really like Beniers but the kid has to improve considerably to become a true 1C. He can do it for sure but needs to put on some muscle, become stronger on his feet, start winning more board battles. The potential is there though. Hopefully he can get there.

I think we need more high-end playmakers. Like you said, the shooters are there and scoring by committee can work with those playmakers. Honestly, any top-end playmakers would be a welcome addition. Does not matter if they come at F or at D. Looking at our roster, almost every team has 1-2 better forwards than our best 2 forwards. Even the crappy teams do.

I was one of the few that was down a bit on the Beniers pick during that draft.

I thought he was the smart, safe pick given all the uncertainty of the top ten prospects in that draft, but I did not see the high-end upside, and I had him deadlocked at 5/6 with Johnson on my draft board. I saw him as a high floor, low ceiling 2nd or 3rd line center.

While I still believe he will never have elite puck skills that most people look for in their #1 centers, Beniers has really impressed me with his vision and IQ. While I do not think he will ever be a highlight producing machine as a top pivot, I think he is absolutely capable of quietly becoming an effective Point Per Game top line center that makes players around him better.

Like you said, he has to keep working hard, and hopefully he can avoid more injuries, but even with his down year, I like what the team has in him going forward and am generally pretty happy with the pick, even now in hindsight.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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I'm not sure how to interpret this, based on what Francis said a couple of weeks ago--I thought they wanted him to get meaningful minutes / playoff experience in CV?

I can see some value in giving Wright and the team a measuring stick to assess his NHL ability at this stage. I'm sure he'll still be with Coachella for their playoff run.
 

RainyCityHockey

Registered User
Dec 24, 2019
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I'm not sure how to interpret this, based on what Francis said a couple of weeks ago--I thought they wanted him to get meaningful minutes / playoff experience in CV?

Why call him up NOW? It makes no sense, other than the financial upside to Wright of getting an NHL paycheck.

Well, they can give him a couple of games to reward him for his work in CV.

Also, while Wright was called up, both Morisson and Winterton were send down to CV.

 
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Irie

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Nov 14, 2010
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I can see some value in giving Wright and the team a measuring stick to assess his NHL ability at this stage. I'm sure he'll still be with Coachella for their playoff run.
Agree here.

I think these call-ups are so that Francis can get a better idea of what he actually needs to put on his summer shopping list.
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
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I havent been able to the catch the last few games. How have Morrison and Winterton looked? I see they have no points but outside of that, do they look like they are prospective NHL forwards?
 

Fuhrious

Registered User
Feb 3, 2004
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I agree that Tanev has been ineffective BUT he is not an expiring UFA. Also, if there is any plan to trade him this offseason, healthy scratching him will definitely impact the return.

My guess is Tanev is still dealing with injuries. But if he is, then just put him on the shelf for the rest of the year and let him recover. Parts of roster management always confuse me but without knowing what is coming down from Francis to Hakstol, it is hard to know who the real dick is.
Nobody is touching Tanev with a 10-foot pole. He'll be entering his age 33 season with a M-NTC and a $3.5m cap hit coming off the worst season of his NHL career AINEC.

I'm laying into him but I actually LIKE Tanev, he's been a good soldier and character "jam" player for this team. Even so, it was absolutely moronic for GMRF to give a player of his caliber a full-length-of-term M-NTC and $3.5m a season, and we're now on the back end where those sorts of bad deals feel extra bad. Realistically speaking, if this is his "level" then he's a 13th (at best) forward and deserves the same treatment PEB (roughly the same PPG as Tanev) has received this season. But for the eye-watering cap hit, that'd be fine.

If he's "still dealing with injuries" then it makes even LESS SENSE for Hak to bench Tatar, or to run Burakovsky on his line. And if that's the case, one would assume that Hak could tell Francis as much as justification for shutting him down. At what point does Burakovksy do a Sprong, walk into Hak's office and say "why the hell are you running me on a line with 2 grinders for 7 minutes a night, when i arguably project as this team's #1 RW?"
 

josra33

Registered User
Aug 11, 2008
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Coachella doesn’t play until Thursday. He can play tonight and get an extra rep in and get sent down for Thursdays game.

Edit: and it’s San Jose tonight. He’s playing with capable linemates tonight.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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Nobody is touching Tanev with a 10-foot pole. He'll be entering his age 33 season with a M-NTC and a $3.5m cap hit coming off the worst season of his NHL career AINEC.

I'm laying into him but I actually LIKE Tanev, he's been a good soldier and character "jam" player for this team. Even so, it was absolutely moronic for GMRF to give a player of his caliber a full-length-of-term M-NTC and $3.5m a season, and we're now on the back end where those sorts of bad deals feel extra bad. Realistically speaking, if this is his "level" then he's a 13th (at best) forward and deserves the same treatment PEB (roughly the same PPG as Tanev) has received this season. But for the eye-watering cap hit, that'd be fine.

If he's "still dealing with injuries" then it makes even LESS SENSE for Hak to bench Tatar, or to run Burakovsky on his line. And if that's the case, one would assume that Hak could tell Francis as much as justification for shutting him down. At what point does Burakovksy do a Sprong, walk into Hak's office and say "why the hell are you running me on a line with 2 grinders for 7 minutes a night, when i arguably project as this team's #1 RW?"

Agree on the nobody touching Tanev part.

FYI it wasn't Francis who signed him to that deal. It was a six year deal that the Pens gave Tanev. Somewhat strange for a bottom sixer but they thought they were saving on cap. And the Kraken took on the bad back half of the deal anyways.
 

kihei

McEnroe: The older I get, the better I used to be.
Jun 14, 2006
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I havent been able to the catch the last few games. How have Morrison and Winterton looked? I see they have no points but outside of that, do they look like they are prospective NHL forwards?
My strength is not evaluating young hockey players, but I will throw in my two cents anyway. Winterton didn't leave any impression on me. He wasn't out there much (under 10 minutes at a guess), and he did nothing that stuck in my memory bank. Morrison looked promising. He got more ice time, seemed to fit in, got a few shots on goal and a bit of power play time, and looked like a player who might be able to contribute in the future. He brought a nice energy, showed surprisingly few nerves, and I would say in this brief stint that he did look like a prospective NHL forward. He certainly helped his chances, that's for sure.
 

Scomerica

Registered User
Aug 14, 2020
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Seattle, Wa
Kinda glad they are moving to Salt Lake and not Houston or KC. They should do well there.
I think Houston will get one eventually. Too big a market not to try and Dallas do well.

In Seattle's situation would you have rather been an expansion team or had the coyotes move here when it was first touted and taken on all their prospects?
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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I think Houston will get one eventually. Too big a market not to try and Dallas do well.

In Seattle's situation would you have rather been an expansion team or had the coyotes move here when it was first touted and taken on all their prospects?

I'd prefer to take the Coyotes. A lot more young talent.
 
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Fuhrious

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Feb 3, 2004
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Looks like shut down for the season, with Fleury called back up. Probably should have been done a week ago imo.
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,325
9,013
Whidbey Island, WA
Lots of injuries to key players...some trades...some Free agent signings that didn't work well...but there were games were you could how the youngsters have come along so there's hope! And I fully expect a strong bounce back from the vets and this team next year...

Well injuries were a problem for sure with Bura missing a significant chunk of time. Dunn's absence was certainly huge and showed. Beniers' sophomore slump was another issue.

On the bright side, Tolvanen has been very good this season. Kartye has shown the ability to be a decent tweener or a real good bottom-6 forward. Wright has been a different player in his most recent callup. Evans should be a decent contributor with more games and ice time next season.

Small chance but hoping that atleast one of Goyette, Nyman, Firkus, Nelson can show enough in Coachella next season to deserve some callups.
 

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