2023-2024 Coaching/Management/Ownership
- Thread starter Static
- Start date
Mostly agree, though I think one of the assistant coaches has only been here for one year and came with Cronin, so I doubt he gets canned.
Sometimes I forget that this is Cronin's first year as a head coach. There's no way he gets fired but if he doesn't learn and make adjustments for next year then I can't imagine he will have much of a head coaching career.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Let's recall the argument is comparing last year's team to this year's team. Why are you changing/moving the goal post with this logical fallacy of comparing this year's team with the rest of the league or better quality teams? Only you brought that up. Remember that.
1. Last year's team had McTavish as it's 4th leading scorer at 43 points (0.54 ppg rate, 5th best on team last year) and he was a rookie. Kinda obtusely biased to give Carlsson an out because he's a rookie.
Currently, Killorn's ppg rate is 0.57, that's 5th best on the team; Carlsson's scoring rate is at 0.53, 6th best. Guess that stupefies your thought that Killorn isn't an impactful forward.
- Last year's Top-6 scoring forwards (raw points)
- Z
- Terry
- Mac
- Vatrano
- Strome
- Rico
This year, we added Carlsson and Killorn to that group. That means this year's team is better than last year's team since we're adding two top-6 talents to the forward group.
2. Vatrano and Strome should have been pushed down to the 3rd line if everyone's healthy. But a lot of things changed between the two seasons. Terry forgot how to score more often (from 0.87 to 0.74 ppg) and Z forgot how to score (from 0.80 to 0.33 ppg). What a revelation to have Vatrano available to play up in the lineup this year! Oh shit... that means the Ducks have actual depth?! That literally blows apart your Point 1 argument with Killorn and Carlsson not being impactful players.
3. Again, why are you comparing this year's defense with the rest of the league when the argument is comparing to last year's team? You're using a logical fallacy to misdirect the argument.
Verbeek was able to admit his mistakes in his d-man collection last year by replacing almost everyone via trade, non-tendering, or demoting to the AHL. Even though the system sucks, we've improved the goal differential. That's a nod to our defense!
4. There you go again with your logical fallacy of expecting a massive or medium jump when the argument is between Last year vs This year. Let's keep that focus.
- Record after 73 games
- Last year: 23-40-10 (56 pts)
- This year: 24-45-4 (52 pts)
- GD after 73 games
- Last year
- GF = 189
Short-handed goals = 1
Shutout = 4 times
- GA = 297
- GD = -102
- GF = 189
- This year
- GF = 179
Short-handed goals = 11
Shutout = 10 times
- GA = 263
- GD = -84
- GF = 179
- Last year
Our GD did improve by 18, but we're scoring less than last year's team by 10 goals. The offense is much worse because 11 of those goals were short-handed goals! Our defense (namely our blue line) gave up 34 fewer goals. This reiterates that our blue line roster is better than last year's blue line roster, AINEC. Now, here's the bad part about our blueline, we've given up 80 goals against on the PK in 73 games. Last year, we gave up 78 goals against on the PK in 82 games.
We can't score at ES nor on the PP; nor can we stop other teams from scoring on the PK because we're an undisciplined bunch (299 TSH in 73 games this year; 280 TSH in 82 games last year). Since we can compare this year's team with last year's team, we can say that coaching staff and their system is woeful.
This year's team regressed at so many aspects from last year's team despite having a much better roster! This was not a successful campaign.
- The positives about this season are
- Vatrano scoring 30 goals
- Gudas makes his d-pairing better (provided he's playing bottom-4 minutes)
- Vaaks looks good playing LD when healthy
- the defensive play at ES improved (thanks to the D-roster, rookies included)
- a lot of first time rookies got experience at the NHL level
Carlsson, Minty, LaCombe, Luneau, and Zellweger
- we traded for Cutter Gauthier
A majority of the positives are individual efforts. That implies either the system or the coaching sucks, or both. Since many of us consigned that Cronin will be retained, we're crossing our fingers that our youths take steps forward from Terry to our early, first round 2024 selection next season. We don't know if the next assistant coaches will be better or just as worse, see Cronin replacing Eakins.
We had more talent on tge backend last year imo. Klingberg, Shatt, Fowler, Drysdale, and more. But we had terrible balance, as they were soft OD's.
But yeah, wih as horrible as we have been this year, IMO,we were way more pathetic last year
70sSanO
Registered User
All the numbers mean little. We suck. And we have been a bad team for 6 years.
Lindholm and Manson couldn’t get us past 80 points since 2018. So what if we could have ended up 5th in the Pacific if we kept them.
My biggest fear is that this is who we are. Our twin sons happen to end up in AZ. Both are still Ducks fans, but one is a big time Coyotes fan. For years he has talked about this prospect or that trade and I’ve rolled my eyes.
We talk hockey all the time and he is so excited about their players and prospects; we also talk alot about the Ducks’ prospects. But in the end it’s still the Yotes, like a Jim Mora moment.
Unfortunately there is this cloud hanging over me that 10 years from now, Lord willing I’m still around, we will be having the same conversations about the Ducks and Coyotes. We will be talking prospects and draft picks and not about meeting in the WCF.
John
Lindholm and Manson couldn’t get us past 80 points since 2018. So what if we could have ended up 5th in the Pacific if we kept them.
My biggest fear is that this is who we are. Our twin sons happen to end up in AZ. Both are still Ducks fans, but one is a big time Coyotes fan. For years he has talked about this prospect or that trade and I’ve rolled my eyes.
We talk hockey all the time and he is so excited about their players and prospects; we also talk alot about the Ducks’ prospects. But in the end it’s still the Yotes, like a Jim Mora moment.
Unfortunately there is this cloud hanging over me that 10 years from now, Lord willing I’m still around, we will be having the same conversations about the Ducks and Coyotes. We will be talking prospects and draft picks and not about meeting in the WCF.
John
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anezthes
Registered User
- Mar 20, 2014
- 4,456
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"Guys, you've gotta stand up for yourself, but if you do, you'll get benched, OK? Unless of course you're a shitty veteran, then you can do whatever you want, and you'll get as much PP time as we can possibly give you." - Verbeek/Cronin
dracom
Registered User
coaching staff needs to go in the offseason. What has Cronin done with this roster that shows he deserves to come back?
MMC
Global Moderator
Alternatively, what has this roster done that shows they put a coach in a position to succeed? (This applies to both Cronin and Eakins). Hiring and firing people will do nothing to address the true issue with this team and the obsession with looking for someone to point the finger at reads like nothing more than coping over the fact that the roster isn't as far along as people want it to be
Tecumseh
Scorched Earth
Because keeping a coach who has long since lost the locker room is always a terrible idea. If you don’t believe me then just look at the New Jersey Devils and how long it took their GM to let Lindy Ruff go.
MMC
Global Moderator
Not only is this nothing more than speculation but if that's truly the case we have much bigger issues than the head coach. No one on this roster is above what is happening here.
Playing the 4th line when we're down 1 with little time on the clock, giving the vet PP unit 90 seconds of PP time over the kid unit, arbitrary benching of kids while letting the vets run wild.. I could go on and on about things Cronin is doing that have nothing to do with the shitty roster he has to work with.
GreatBear
Registered User
Cronin is a bad coach. He doesn't have much to work with, but he is completely mismanaging what he has. This falls on Verbeek, since Cronin was Verbeek's choice.
Smirnov2Chistov
EEK!
I fear without the proper development and coaching we will be Buffalo of the west. We have all the shiny toy prospects, but will they really hit their potential?
I sound like a broken record, and I hate doing so, but neither Cronin or Verbeek really are not showing me any signs of improvement with what we have (or potentially will have)
Cronin while advertised as someone who is a hard-ass and gets the most out of young players, doesn’t seem like he could motivate someone like me to go out and play for him. Just an empty suit who looks lost most nights
I sound like a broken record, and I hate doing so, but neither Cronin or Verbeek really are not showing me any signs of improvement with what we have (or potentially will have)
Cronin while advertised as someone who is a hard-ass and gets the most out of young players, doesn’t seem like he could motivate someone like me to go out and play for him. Just an empty suit who looks lost most nights
Tecumseh
Scorched Earth
And refusing to evaluate the coach because you want the players to be “held accountable” accomplishes what exactly? All of these penalties and undisciplined play is absolutely a coaching flaw. All I’ve seen this year is a coach that does not belong at the NHL level. I can’t blame Cronin too much because I always thought it was a completely unnecessary risk to put a rookie head coach in charge of the initial NHL development of so many of our top prospects.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I don't disagree with your criticism of Cronin. He's earned plenty. But I have to agree with @MMC in that if a bunch of guys barley old enough to legally drink (some still not there yet) can tune out a new coach part way through the coach's first season then we really do have a problem with the inmates running the asylum. Usually that problem crops up with lifers, not kids in for stealing their first candy bar. That would be a huge problem if true.
The Midnight Burrito
True Fan
Yes the NCAA game was in Missouri
It still kind of surprises me that anyone thought we’d be decent this year. We’re performing exactly as expected?
Eh nah. We were slated to suck. Anyone that looked at this roster should have seen that
