dackelljuneaubulis02
Registered User
- Oct 13, 2012
- 11,560
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Hopefully Primeau can be a good stop gap at least. Or maybe we just keep Montembeault
Prospect Info: [2023 - 128th] Quentin Miller (QMJHL - Rimouski Océanic)
- Thread starter Adam Michaels
- Start date
SergeConstantin74
Always right.
- Jul 7, 2007
- 12,338
- 7,232
Quentin Miller will be traded to the 2025 Memorial Cup host Rimouski Oceanic on December 29th. Quebec will get Rimouski's 1st and 2nd round picks in 2025 and a player to be named.
Huge opportunity for him to show how he does when there's pressure. So far in Quebec as the backup last year and the starter of a bad team this season, we can't say he had the pressure to lead a team even though he did it anyway.
Huge opportunity for him to show how he does when there's pressure. So far in Quebec as the backup last year and the starter of a bad team this season, we can't say he had the pressure to lead a team even though he did it anyway.
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
Really exciting.. will get to play meaningful games this year and then play in the Memorial Cup next year.
SergeConstantin74
Always right.
- Jul 7, 2007
- 12,338
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Even in junior hockey, you don't often see a 10th round draft pick in his second year of eligibility being worth 1st and 2nd round picks 2 years later. His development is impressive.
There were 54 goaltenders selected before him in the QMJHL Draft while he was eligible in 2020 and 2021. None of them were drafted in the NHL.
There were 54 goaltenders selected before him in the QMJHL Draft while he was eligible in 2020 and 2021. None of them were drafted in the NHL.
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Vachon23
Registered User
Especially at his size
You can see smaller goalies drafted far in the draft and having a great career like Nathan Darveau but goalies or his size usually get drafted higher
True but let me point out the Tanguay « proximity« between Rimouski and Quebec. We’re not far from the Morissette brothers era. Would have been more impressive coming from any other org than Rimouski. Scratch my back…
bcv
My french sucks.
- Sep 18, 2010
- 4,573
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We already know you don't watch any games, what would you know of his value?
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
SergeConstantin74
Always right.
- Jul 7, 2007
- 12,338
- 7,232
Someone woke up on the wrong side of his bed!
Vachon23
Registered User
SergeConstantin74
Always right.
- Jul 7, 2007
- 12,338
- 7,232
And Quebec pretty much came up on top of all their trades for some time. I bet Rimouski can't wait to get its back scratched! Hopefully, Miller gives them what they need.
GHJimmy
We made it here.
- Mar 30, 2018
- 1,109
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I remember someone also mentioning that about Primeau, then deferred everything. We still kind of see that right now
Vachon23
Registered User
Quebec is getting really good pieces to rebuild just with there goaliesAnd Quebec pretty much came up on top of all their trades for some time. I bet Rimouski can't wait to get its back scratched! Hopefully, Miller gives them what they need.
Adam Michaels
Registered User
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
Pompeius Magnus
Registered User
Good for him. he'll get another memorial cup run as the main guy. Great experience all around.
Adam Michaels
Registered User
Yup. The Memorial Cup next year is the big plus for him being traded there. Also, he goes from the last placed team in the conference to a team in a playoff spot. Although the standings are tight, so they could move up a few spots or fall back depending on wins and losses.
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2003
- 10,358
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More evidence of wasting high picks on goaltenders being a stupid strategy. This scenario is not even remotely possible with a forward or a defenceman.
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
Is Arber Xhekaj evidence of wasting high picks on defenseman?
I'm sure Tampa Bay doesn't regret Vasilevskiy one bit.
You take whoever you think is the best player available where you pick every time regardless of position.
If you have strong convictions that a goalie prospect will take charge in net for 10 years. You'd be stupid to pass on them because you shouldn't draft goalies high as a rule.
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2003
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Of course Xhekaj is not an example because the data doesn't back that premise up, which can not be said about drafting goalies early. Naming outliers as evidence for a greater truth is always a bad faith argument and a hasty generalization fallacy.
I have proven beyond any doubt with many previous evidence/data rich posts that goaltenders are by a mile the hardest position to scout and even when you do get it right it is rarely worth it as they take too long to develop. No other position can claim that most of the top performers at their respective positions were drafted later than the 50th pick.
Teams of course will get lucky in the first round just like they get lucky in every other round with goalies. Using specific examples while ignoring all of the failures is not evidence of a successful strategy. People who claim to be goalie experts and have special and accurate insight into 17 year old goalies who typically are 7-9 years away from being a starter are entirely f.o.s.....You are better off using prime assets on skaters and rolling the dice with 3rd round and later picks on goalies, there is just no way to argue against this as the data clearly bears this out.
If you have an affinity for the position and enjoy watching the development of high pedigree goaltending prospects, that is your prerogative as a fan and not for me or anyone else to criticize. But, from a strict asset management/team building exercise it is objectively a poor strategy even if it has worked from time to time. Every draft pick requires an element of luck and the history of drafting goalies has clearly demonstrated that luck is not only a far more significant factor with drafting this particular position.....it may even be the main factor.
I loved what we did this year by throwing multiple darts at the position when the draft began to thin. Fowler is every bit as good a prospect as any goalie taken well ahead of him and it is entirely conceivable that Volokhin or Miller could become the best goalie in the draft as well. These possibilities are infinitely greater at the goalie position than any other position. It would be asinine to suggest that Florian Xhekaj, Konyushkov or Sam Harris have this upside and this should be all the evidence that you require to understand the vast disparity between projectibility of success from goalies to skaters.
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Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2003
- 10,358
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HF Habs: - 2023 NHL Draft part 2
Found one of the smaller reports that I did on the topic.......didn't save the others as I didn't expect to have to keep restating the data lol
Found one of the smaller reports that I did on the topic.......didn't save the others as I didn't expect to have to keep restating the data lol
Ezpz
No mad pls
- Apr 16, 2013
- 14,925
- 11,089
It depends on the goalie. Fleury isn't a bad pick first overall even in hindsight. He had a 20 year career as a starter, and while he was never a world beater, many of his contemporaries in the 2003 draft had 6-7 good years and fell off completely like Staal, Richards, Vanek, etc. He probably still goes top ten after Bergeron, Weber, Burns, Pavelski, Getzlaf, Perry and Suter.
Luongo same thing. Price same thing, I don't see an argument for anyone except Crosby or Kopitar. You don't get these elite HOF goalies just anywhere. You can still get good ones outside the first, but if you've got a sure thing like Price, why take the chance when Gilbert Brule is the next BPA?
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2003
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As I just laid it out, you can't name outliers and exceptions when the data is undeniable. It reminds me of a co-worker who thinks smoking isn't actually bad for you because her parents and grandparents did it for so long without keeling over. These picks had an element of luck to them and a greater element than picking a skater would have had. Poor decisions turn out well at differing percentages but the outcome does not justify the flawed process.
Fleury was a phenom as was Luongo so I don't think that using these players is a fair example of why you shouldn't select a goalie in the first 50 picks lol. A goalie should probably never go #1 unless the skater class is truly awful and the goalie is a generational phenom. Even then, there is a very good chance that there will be a skater or even many skaters who end up being a better selections in hindsight as well as an even better chance that there is a better goalie who will be selected later in the draft.
With all due respect the evidence is overwhelming and the revisionist attempt to justify the picks that you just did is entirely fallacious.
The claim that you don't get "elite HOF goalies just anywhere" is as incorrect a statement as will be uttered on this site all day. Lundqvist, Hasek, Rinne, Belfour, Roy etc all are easy examples of why that statement is straight bananas. Or how about 11 of the last 14 Vezinas have been won by goalies drafted outside of the first round and the Stanley Cup had an undrafted Bobrovsky against a 3rd round pick in Hill. As far as the top 3 early Vezina candidates this season..... Hellebuyck, Demko and Swayman were all drafted outside of the 1st as well.....
Montreal did it the correct way with taking Fowler, Miller and Volokhin late.
*Auto correct keeps wanting to change Vezinas to vaginas lol......I don't think vezina winners are supposed to let things in
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DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
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I know it's wrong to argue based on outliers, but this is the Havs board, Price is their most successful pick of the 21st century, and thus the bias will run deep.
