WJC: 2022 Team USA Roster Talk

[nbwingsfan]

I call it facts. The fans in Canada and Edmonton don't care about this rehashed version in August. I hope they do care about the next one in December. This one just doesn't feel right and I think everyone involved and watching can admit that.

Fans care plenty.

Canada, especially Edmonton gets like ~40-50 truly sunny summer days during an entire year. The last place 99% of people want to be near is a rink.

Doesn’t mean no one’s cares and aren’t watching on TV or keeping up with the game.

One things to sure, the players sure as hell care.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Please tell me the same coaching staff hasn't already been chosen for 2023.

Nate Leaman should never again set foot in a Team USA dressing room.

You mean the same Leaman whose team won gold two years ago?

Seems like there is a lot of sour grapes and whining in these boards.

USA Hockey is a lot more than one coaching staff. Leaman's record has been impressive and a lot of various factors effected this particular group.

 

[Killing Joke]

He certainly wasn't entirely the reason for last night's loss, but his refusal to try different lines when the team was clearly struggling against an inspired, weaker opponent was baffling.

His refusal to bench the obviously injured Hughes was negligent. It hurt the team and risked aggravating his injury. Shameful.

Tom Fitzgerald should be blistering a few sets of ear drums at USA Hockey today.

He might given the ties he has to USA hockey and how they draft a lot from the program.


The coaching was bad as was goaltending. Players had no clue how to handle the puck.

And that turnover from Luke at the end doesn’t happen if he isn’t hurt and can skate. He either gets to it faster and rings it around the boards, or he does what he normally does and walks the blue line and finds a play to make. I also can’t remember if knies mad a stupid pass to hughes or he turned it over holding onto the puck to much and it went over there. Either way, a lack of puck control or bad passing from someone led to Hughes having to try and do something on a hurt leg.

Positioning also seemed to be such a major issue this game. Players too far away to receive passes, puck watching, skating into each other’s lanes etc.

And the dump and chase clearly wasnt working against their D so no clue why they kept going with that.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

You mean the same Leaman whose team won gold two years ago?

Seems like there is a lot of sour grapes and whining in these boards.

USA Hockey is a lot more than one coaching staff. Leaman's record has been impressive and a lot of various factors effected this particular group.

It's neither sour grapes nor whining to observe that his stubborn refusal to change lines when the team was clearly struggling was detrimental. Nor to call his refusal to sit the injured Hughes an act of coaching negligence.

Winning gold with Zegras and Knight leading the way doesn't require inspired coaching. This team could have certainly used some of that.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I think the US got the short straw for opponents. Czechia was going to be tough. Just didn't get it done.

 

[Statsy]

I know when a team has a tough QF exit that feelings are raw. However, it’s tough to watch all these posters trashing this US roster as though it was a terrible team. I watched every one of their games as I have for many years and can tell you that this was a lot closer to one of their best teams than their worst teams.

Sometimes great teams have one bad game, and that happened last night. The Hughes injury was unfortunate and the coach screwed up by continuing to ride a horse than had gone lame.

The only major roster weakness was in goal and that bit them in the end, but there weren’t a lot of other great options out there for them.

Personally, I‘m just going to tip my cap to the Czech team that played a near perfect game.

 

[NewHampshire]

Nate Leaman falls to 11-2 in World Junior Championship games (with a gold medal) - we should all be so 'inept'...

Games like last night happen in a single-elimination tournament at the JR level - for posters who follow this tournament religiously every year I'd think that would be understood. The Czech's had their own 'disaster scenario' just two days ago...

--

Everyone so up in arms about the 'coaching style' of Leaman and Pecknold, etc - will be in for a rude awakening when they see how Carle and DU play the game, lol. Hint: its the exact same style/approach. Fortunately, its a style/approach that works...

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Pretty sure Canada was the favorite even with Zegras, Knight, etc in the USA lineup.

Much like the U18 loss to Sweden in the gold medal game, problem seems to be America playing sound fundamental hockey and avoiding breakdowns when they are not blowing out teams on their technical skills alone.

 

[ORRFForever]

Matt Coronato's reaction after he missed the open net was one of absolute shock. He just stood there, hunched over, like what happened made no logical sense - most times he couldn't miss an open net like that if he tried. After that, we knew the U.S. was not coming back.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Too bad the rest of the roster didnt play like that bum Mazur that you ragged on the whole time leading up to the tourney and they might be playing for a medal

I still think Mazur didn't deserve to be on the team. He was carried by the best player on the team Bordeleau. Good luck to him though, and be sure to check in on his progress over the coming years. I suspect he won't be a top 6 NHL'er. Yet because he scored a few goals against bad teams, including Czech Republic, he's made it for Red Wing fans. If you want, I can give you periodic updates on some of the players who didn't make the team.

He was part of the problem. Less of it than some other players, but part of the problem. You are a Canadian fan and come here to tell us who we should want on our team. Arrogant. And you lose nothing from this. If he doesn't have success, you write it off as a mid round who shouldn't have made it. We don't get our chance back to select a better roster.

 

[Golden_Jet]

How did Kleven look in the tournament.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'd be interested to hear on who fans think should have been on the team and who shouldn't have made it.

I know team USA sometimes make weird roster decision so I'm wondering if that plus the coaching is what did them in.

As a Sens fan and after a good showing in camp, I was excited to see Boucher suit up.

Boucher would've definitely been one of them. Some of McGroarty, Gauthier, Nazar, Snuggerud, Howard, Chesley, Hutson.

Instead we got guys like McKown, Duran, James, Moore, Truscott. Mid/late/undrafted picks, while first round or highly touted second rounders miss it.

Stramel shouldn't have been the 14th forward. And we shouldn't have had a first line with Slaggert and Mazur, nor should've Pastujov rotated between 12th and 13th forward. None of the lines had any chemistry. I think the first line looked good at times, but I'm pretty sure that was only Bordeleau carrying two guys who didn't belong in those spots.

Decisions were pretty awful all around, and not only in hindsight.

They lose and Pavel gloats... shocking...

I don't consider it gloating. I didn't want to be right.

However, I am not shutting my mouth about this. I had a lot of USAH shills that felt my opinion was so outrageous that I wasn't allowed to voice it. They tried to choke off my right to not be a USAH shill, and then I end up being the one that was right all along.

If my opinion was treated fairly, I wouldn't come back to say I was right. Funny how the people who were wrong don't even try to show their face now.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I’d argue it was the first line who let the team down. Not the Riley Durans of the world. Bordeleau’s line got TORCHED and were on ice for all 4 goals. -4. It’s a shame because i really liked their play up until now

Were any of those omissions supposed to play 1st line?

I'd argue it was all of them. It's team selection and line combinations. We build a team of grinders that has no defined roles. Apparently it's enough to expect everyone to play some very aspirational and unrealistic way of fast, skilled, physical, and with a lot of effort. It doesn't work that way. You have to make quality choices, and can't throw a bunch of things at the wall and think it'll stick just because.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Boucher would've definitely been one of them. Some of McGroarty, Gauthier, Nazar, Snuggerud, Howard, Chesley, Hutson.

Instead we got guys like McKown, Duran, James, Moore, Truscott. Mid/late/undrafted picks, while first round or highly touted second rounders miss it.

Stramel shouldn't have been the 14th forward. And we shouldn't have had a first line with Slaggert and Mazur, nor should've Pastujov rotated between 12th and 13th forward. None of the lines had any chemistry. I think the first line looked good at times, but I'm pretty sure that was only Bordeleau carrying two guys who didn't belong in those spots.

Decisions were pretty awful all around, and not only in hindsight.

Tyler Boucher should be nowhere near a national team roster. I'll concede the 2022 draftees you mentioned. Most or all of them would have been solid additions to the 3rd and 4th lines.

And you're seriously complaining that Bordeleau carried Mazur despite Mazur scoring 5 goals? Mazur was a gamer, dude. He was a top 3 player for USA just about every single game.

 

[William H Bonney]

I still think Mazur didn't deserve to be on the team. He was carried by the best player on the team Bordeleau. Good luck to him though, and be sure to check in on his progress over the coming years. I suspect he won't be a top 6 NHL'er. Yet because he scored a few goals against bad teams, including Czech Republic, he's made it for Red Wing fans. If you want, I can give you periodic updates on some of the players who didn't make the team.

He was part of the problem. Less of it than some other players, but part of the problem. You are a Canadian fan and come here to tell us who we should want on our team. Arrogant. And you lose nothing from this. If he doesn't have success, you write it off as a mid round who shouldn't have made it. We don't get our chance back to select a better roster.

Your obsession with draft position or long term NHL projection is clouding your judgment. Mazur wasn't carried by anyone. Sometimes instead of dying on the hill it's noble to admit you were wrong about Mazur for this team, especially when it doesn't mean you need to concede your overall point that you feel they should have gone with younger, higher draft picks. I don't agree with that position but it's hard to take the position seriously when it's not accompanied by any humility.

Should we give updates on some of the prior players you've been obsessed for prior teams and whether or not they made it? For example, still beating the Bode Wilde drum? We're all wrong a lot, including you. Pointing out the long term development of players on and off a WJC team doesn't prove anything. No one has ever claimed the WJC is both the best current players and the best long term ones. They're not synonymous, and the entire history of this tournament proves it.

Tyler Boucher should be nowhere near a national team roster. I'll concede the 2022 draftees you mentioned. Most or all of them would have been solid additions to the 3rd and 4th lines.

And you're seriously complaining that Bordeleau carried Mazur despite Mazur scoring 5 goals? Mazur was a gamer, dude. He was a top 3 player for USA just about every single game.

The 2022 draftees just lost the U18 tournament but they would have changed this team's outlook? Nah

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The 2022 draftees just lost the U18 tournament but they would have changed this team's outlook? Nah

Lower in the lineup? Maybe. I'd bet any of Nazar, Gauthier, Howard or Snuggerud would have performed better than Samoskevich, Berard, Stramel, McKown and Dominic James.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Tyler Boucher should be nowhere near a national team roster. I'll concede the 2022 draftees you mentioned. Most or all of them would have been solid additions to the 3rd and 4th lines.

And you're seriously complaining that Bordeleau carried Mazur despite Mazur scoring 5 goals? Mazur was a gamer, dude. He was a top 3 player for USA just about every single game.

Boucher brings speed, physicality, hitting, and his offense is way underrated. He goes to the net. How many players went to the net yesterday? There's also a real fear factor with him on the ice. The other team knows they need to keep their heads up. He even had a good camp supposedly, but they didn't select him. Makes no sense.

Bordeleau had more points than the other two line-mates. Two guys that no one viewed as highly touted before the tournament. Take Mazur out of this for a second. Am I supposed to believe Landon Slaggert was the fourth best offensive player on this team? Bordeleau was having success scoring with anyone as his line-mates. I don't think the same could be said for his line-mates, and I think if we gave him some high-end offensive players as his line-mates then the line would've had more success than it did. While it was our highest scoring line, they weren't good defensively, Bordeleau never got going the way he can, and they didn't carry possession the way I'd expect out of a first line.

 

[William H Bonney]

Lower in the lineup? Maybe. I'd bet any of Nazar, Gauthier, Howard or Snuggerud would have performed better than Samoskevich, Berard, Stramel, McKown and Dominic James.

I bet they wouldn't. People underestimate the importance of age and physical development in this tournament. I'm not saying a guy here or there wouldn't have performed, or that a guy like McKown couldn't be easily replaced, but this notion that we could have inserted a ton of barely 18 year olds in this tournament and expected guaranteed different results flies in the face of this tournament's history. I remember when we rolled with a young center group of Matthews, Eichel, Larkin and we also lost in the QFs.

 

[William H Bonney]

Boucher brings speed, physicality, hitting, and his offense is way underrated. He goes to the net. How many players went to the net yesterday? There's also a real fear factor with him on the ice. The other team knows they need to keep their heads up. He even had a good camp supposedly, but they didn't select him. Makes no sense.

Mazur is one of them and yet you didn't even want him on the team. The biggest differences between the two right now are (a) draft position and (b) Boucher would have been in the penalty box a bunch with the IIHF rules.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Boucher brings speed, physicality, hitting, and his offense is way underrated. He goes to the net. How many players went to the net yesterday? There's also a real fear factor with him on the ice. The other team knows they need to keep their heads up. He even had a good camp supposedly, but they didn't select him. Makes no sense.

Bordeleau had more points than the other two line-mates. Two guys that no one viewed as highly touted before the tournament. Take Mazur out of this for a second. Am I supposed to believe Landon Slaggert was the fourth best offensive player on this team? Bordeleau was having success scoring with anyone as his line-mates. I don't think the same could be said for his line-mates, and I think if we gave him some high-end offensive players as his line-mates then the line would've had more success than it did. While it was our highest scoring line, they weren't good defensively, Bordeleau never got going the way he can, and they didn't carry possession the way I'd expect out of a first line.

Part of them not carrying possession as much as we all would have liked is a weaker overall team defense. Not having Jake Sanderson stings. One of Hutson or Chesley also might change that dynamic as well.

As for Mazur? He had a great rookie season with Denver and was a major part of that team winning a national championship. He scored ugly goals, battled in the corners and came out with the puck more often than not and worked his ass off every shift. You can't ask much more of the guy.

Your argument that Bordeleau was having success with anyone and that Mazur was being carried by himdoesn't really hold water. Bordeleau had 2 primary assists, 5 secondary assists, 8 total points. Exactly 1 more point than Mazur so this isn't exactly total domination by Bordeleau and his teammates can't keep pace with him. If anything Bordeleau needed Mazur more than the other way around.

Mazur is one of them and yet you didn't even want him on the team. The biggest differences between the two right now are (a) draft position and (b) Boucher would have been in the penalty box a bunch with the IIHF rules.

Logan Cooley did just fine. Cutter Gauthier, Snuggerud and Nazar scored pretty well at the combine for their athleticism. Better than Cooley if I remember correctly.

 

[William H Bonney]

Part of them not carrying possession as much as we all would have liked is a weaker overall team defense. Not having Jake Sanderson stings. One of Hutson or Chesley also might change that dynamic as well.

As for Mazur? He had a great rookie season with Denver and was a major part of that team winning a national championship. He scored ugly goals, battled in the corners and came out with the puck more often than not and worked his ass off every shift. You can't ask much more of the guy.

Your argument that Bordeleau was having success with anyone and that Mazur was being carried by himdoesn't really hold water. Bordeleau had 2 primary assists, 5 secondary assists, 8 total points. Exactly 1 more point than Mazur so this isn't exactly total domination by Bordeleau and his teammates can't keep pace with him. If anything Bordeleau needed Mazur more than the other way around.



Logan Cooley did just fine. Cutter Gauthier, Snuggerud and Nazar scored pretty well at the combine for their athleticism. Better than Cooley if I remember correctly.

The combine doesn't matter. Casey Mittelstadt failed the combine and won tournament MVP.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The 2022 draftees just lost the U18 tournament but they would have changed this team's outlook? Nah

I don't think I said they would. I think I was explicit that they probably wouldn't have. I don't think they would've completely bombed out of this tournament in the fashion that your preferred selections did. In fact, the 2001 age group lost the U18 tournament also, despite dominating like the 2004 age group did. They then came back and won the 2021 WJC. You can't always look at the final result. That group of 2004 players dominated that tournament, and lost a fluky final. The 2001 group dominated their U18 tournament and lost due to a great goaltending performance. They then came back at this level, and the law of averages went their way.

You can't take a bunch of nobodies who no one believes are good players and will them into being good players because they are older players or have a chip on their shoulder from having a low draft position or no draft position. We saw the same thing in 2020. Complete disregard for pedigree. Same thing happened again. There was a choice to make. Take the 19 year old nobodies with a chip on their shoulder or select a younger team with a lot of high pedigree players. And I'm not suggesting we were winning a title if we select the team differently, but what does anyone gain from this? Red Wings fans get some excitement from Carter Mazur playing on a line with an NHL'er for a few games before he returns to being a mid-level prospect.

I'm not even sure what your point is by mentioning Bode Wilde. Besides, I'm not even sure I was upset about him not making a team in prior years. Any proof of that? How about you just admit you were wrong about this team and it should've been selected differently? I didn't call you out specifically, but since you want to come at me for saying what I did, you were absolutely one of the people that approved of how this team was selected and you apparently still think we should select a bunch of guys with no pedigree over high skilled first round picks.

Only country that has fans where they prefer some chip on their shoulder 19 year old grinder over the high skill first round picks that are the best NHL prospects.

Matt Coronato's reaction after he missed the open net was one of absolute shock. He just stood there, hunched over, like what happened made no logical sense - most times he couldn't miss an open net like that if he tried. After that, we knew the U.S. was not coming back.

Shot was blocked by the Czech player.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Lower in the lineup? Maybe. I'd bet any of Nazar, Gauthier, Howard or Snuggerud would have performed better than Samoskevich, Berard, Stramel, McKown and Dominic James.

Samoskevich actually wasn't a problem. He hit like 5 posts during the tournament. Thats pure bad luck.

Don't know what he has to do with the point either. He was probably the most naturally skilled player on the team and he was a first round pick.

Mazur is one of them and yet you didn't even want him on the team. The biggest differences between the two right now are (a) draft position and (b) Boucher would have been in the penalty box a bunch with the IIHF rules.

Remind me in a few years where they are in their careers.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Samoskevich actually wasn't a problem. He hit like 5 posts during the tournament. Thats pure bad luck.

Don't know what he has to do with the point either. He was probably the most naturally skilled player on the team and he was a first round pick.

Mackie wasn't a problem but wasn't as much a difference maker as I had hoped. I still stand by the rest of my point.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Part of them not carrying possession as much as we all would have liked is a weaker overall team defense. Not having Jake Sanderson stings. One of Hutson or Chesley also might change that dynamic as well.

As for Mazur? He had a great rookie season with Denver and was a major part of that team winning a national championship. He scored ugly goals, battled in the corners and came out with the puck more often than not and worked his ass off every shift. You can't ask much more of the guy.

Your argument that Bordeleau was having success with anyone and that Mazur was being carried by himdoesn't really hold water. Bordeleau had 2 primary assists, 5 secondary assists, 8 total points. Exactly 1 more point than Mazur so this isn't exactly total domination by Bordeleau and his teammates can't keep pace with him. If anything Bordeleau needed Mazur more than the other way around.



Logan Cooley did just fine. Cutter Gauthier, Snuggerud and Nazar scored pretty well at the combine for their athleticism. Better than Cooley if I remember correctly.

I think I've been pretty clear that I didn't think Bordeleau had a good tournament for the expectations for him. Yet, he still led us in points. I don't think he was good enough to carry a bunch of grinder types to success. He's not Matthews or Eichel. He's a good player, but we hurt his play in this tournament by putting him with the players we did.