WJC: 2022 Team Finland roster talk

[Ippenator]

Many good points. But i can see similarities again, both are really building their teams around the players which they think are absolutely suitable for roles required of their hockey. Jalonen has gotten heat many times because of his choices, starting from leaving Jussi Jokinen out of Vancouver Olympics.

These are always risks, Jalonen is amazing coach but he's not a fortune teller. He chooses players he believes are able to get the best results, and then it comes down to luck and right circumstances combined with that structure.

I can understand why Pennanen left Kiviharju out, there's no need to rush him and this team is very tight together. It's their time to play now, Kiviharju will get many chances. And we play in the final, without Kiviharju or not.

Jalonen from his earlier national team coaching days does remind me more of Pennanen now, but Jalonen has developed and evolved as a coach a lot himself after those days. He himself has said that he had some revelation during the 2011 WHC tournament, as his assisting coach Petri Matikainen had a serious discussion with him about Jalonen being too uptight with his team and staff and too stubborn with his set ways. I have understood that since that he changed quite much his approach. It could of course happen at some point to Pennanen too, but I wouldn’t still count on it.

 

[karhukissa]

Jalonen from his earlier national team coaching days does remind me more of Pennanen now, but Jalonen has developed and evolved as a coach a lot himself after those days. He himself has said that he had some revelation during the 2011 WHC tournament, as his assisting coach Petri Matikainen had a serious discussion with him about Jalonen being too uptight with his team and staff and too stubborn with his set ways. I have understood that since that he changed quite much his approach. It could of course happen at some point to Pennanen too, but I wouldn’t still count on it.

Jalonen definetly changed for better and he's talked a lot about that change and development. I'm not saying that Pennanen is flawless and godmode coach, but i think he get's too much heat here especially because he is able to bring results. Also that Sweden game, back against the wall was a perfect approach and defensive masterclass so i can't be mad at him even if i wanted.

From one Espoo guy to another, let's agree to disagree.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Do you guys consider Antti Pennanen to be a good coach?

 

[Jukurit]

While we're on the discussion about coaches, what do you guys think about Jussi Ahokas?

 

[Svedu]

World doesn't work like that, you can't say that they were missing player x or player x. It's impossible to know what would've happened if Slovakia or Sweden had their best team, that's why there's no point to talk about it. If Sweden scored 1-0, it would've been different game and different things would've happened. There are billions of possibilities in this life, if you go to grocery store and turn right instead of left you might get hit by a car and die. There is no point to talk about whatifs because we don't know for fact.

Finland has culture in their national teams nowadays which goes beyond Pennanen or his choices and selections. These kids has grown into it, that system gives them backbone to win anyone anytime, regardless what happened in preliminary rounds, also mentally they are ready to play tough games. How many times we need to play like trash in preliminary games and end up gettint medals that it's not counted as a coincidence? This is something what people here doesn't seem to understand.

I don't agree with leaving Blomqvist out, also i don't agree with all his decisions. But for me result matters and everything else is irrelevant.

That's why i don't? I don't speculate like you do? I'm not claiming anything else than that Finland have lot of their best players available and that it was up to Pennanen to select them.
Other coaches didn't have the same luxury.

My freaking point is? If you could be so nice and try to read between the lines instead of trying to misunderstand and take focus from your own made up thoughts about what you believe i, or another person think? Is that Finland were always supposed to be there this year. What is it that is so difficult for you to comprehend?
Did USA have any players of Zegras, Eichel, Hughes, Matthews caliber this year? No, they didn't.
Cooley seems more like a Keller kind of potential to me.
And... It's a fact that Sweden missed their best players, or am i lying here?
Imagine this roster without the first line and Niemelä? Do you honestly believe we would've been in the finals? Who are you even trying to fool? Yourself?

Last but not least, even Canada don't have their best roster ever in my opinion. Bedard is the best player and how old is he really? No matter how talented he is, he's three years younger. Even Barkov (born 95) wasn't at Granlunds (92) level at the WJC's, not even close. And now he's probably considered as our best player with or before Rantanen.
I mean Niemelä already dominated this tournament before. Räty played it two years ago and has already showed himself in the Isles camp and performed. Not to mention the summer showcase.
Kemell should be top end talent at this level as well.
Simontaival, Järventie and others are drafted pretty early and are already very experienced at this level.

Also, i don't believe Pennanen is a mastermind after all, even if we would win. Some things do hit me and makes me wonder... How come a talent like Koivunen has been so sh*t? Helenius perhaps not as talented, but should be more than decent and he's not been that. Lambert got selected, why? Pennanen shows that he's not the coach who's able to use him. Even if it would be Lamberts weaknesses and his fault? Why pick him in the first place then? If anything he's probably destroyed the kids confidence even more.
Is Nurmi better than Rami Määttä in any way? Or should he even earn more ice time than Jurmo? He didn't select R. Määttä even when he's insisting on using Puutio in an uncomfortable position?
Meriläinen? Pennanen didn't even trust him when it mattered. And it's not like "The system" and defense were that good in helping him in the first place. You know the system that impressed us all before and you like to refer to? When the team plays a solid game defensively and attack with fire and intensity without forgetting their responsibility defensively. I just haven't seen that, nor got the impression that we've reached the same level as before.
Do you remember the year when we won with Utunen scoring the decisive goal? Yes, the defense were probably a bit better and overall the roster was good, but so was our game too.
I don't think Tolvanen is a much better talent than Räty, Kemell and others. I do believe Niemelä can reach Jokiharjus heights. I mean Canada had Suzuki, they had Lafreniere etc.
The US had Spencer Knight, the better Hughes (Quinn) defender, Jack Drury, Jack Hughes etc.
Sweden had Broberg, Sandin, Boqvist, Zetterlund.
Russia had Marchenko, Denisenko, Kravtsov, Podkolzin, Morozov, Tarasov, Mifthakov, Romanov.
Czechia had Dostal, Skarek and Patera in goal, perhaps the best trio in the WJC's ever. Kaut, Jenik, Necas, Pekar, Zadina, Lauko, Kondelik etc.
My point in all this? We deserved the win back then and the competition was fierce. That was truly impressive on a whole another level.

This years final is no upset and we've not seen any masterful things of this team yet. If they impress a lot in the final? Well, then they at least fooled me and i' ll be the first to gladly admit that. Cheers!

While we're on the discussion about coaches, what do you guys think about Jussi Ahokas?

Well Ahokas has been a head coach in two gold winning teams. Also one bronze and one silver. I do think his team in 2019 played better overall than Pennanens this year.

What's your opinion?

 

[Jukurit]

Well Ahokas has been a head coach in two gold winning teams. Also one bronze and one silver. I do think his team in 2019 played better overall than Pennanens this year.

What's your opinion?

Definitely think that he's a good coach. Results speak for themselves. Though I've heard the criticism that his system is "boring" like this past season with TPS. I think he's a future head coach for men's NT.

 

[karhukissa]

That's why i don't? I don't speculate like you do?

My freaking point is? If you could be so nice and try to read between the lines instead of trying to misunderstand and take focus from your own made up thoughts about what you believe i, or another person think? Is that Finland were always supposed to be there this year. What is it that is so difficult for you to comprehend?
Did USA have any players of Zegras, Eichel, Hughes, Matthews caliber this year? No, they didn't.
Cooley seems more like a Keller kind of potential to me.
And... It's a fact that Sweden missed their best players, or am i lying here?
Imagine this roster without the first line and Niemelä? Do you honestly believe we would've been in the finals? Who are you even trying to fool? Yourself?

Last but not least, even Canada don't have their best roster ever in my opinion.


Also, i don't believe Pennanen is a mastermind after all, even if we would win. Some things do hit me and makes me wonder... How come a talent like Koivunen has been so sh*t? Helenius perhaps not as talented, but should be more than decent as he's not been that. Lambert got selected, why? Pennanen shows that he's not the coach who's able to use him. Even if it would be Lamberts weaknesses and his fault? Why pick him in the first place then? If anything he's probably destroyed the kids confidence even more. I Is Nurmi better than Rami Määttä in any way? Or should he even earn more ice time than Jurmo?
Meriläinen? Pennanen didn't even trust him when it mattered. And it's not like "The system" and defense were that good in helping him in the first place. You know the system that impressed us all before and you like to refer to? When the team plays a solid game defensively and attack with fire and intensity without forgetting their responsibility defensively. I just haven't seen that, nor got the impression that we've reached the same level as before.
Do you remember the year when we won with Utunen scoring the decisive goal? Yes, the defense were probably a bit better and overall the roster was good, but so was our game too.
I don't think Tolvanen is a much better talent than Räty, Kemell and others. I do believe Niemelä can reach Jokiharjus heights. I mean Canada had Suzuki, they had Lafreniere etc.
The US had Spencer Knight, the better Hughes (Quinn) defender, Jack Drury, Jack Hughes etc.
Sweden had Broberg, Sandin, Boqvist, Zetterlund.
Russia had Marchenko, Denisenko, Kravtsov, Podkolzin, Morozov, Tarasov, Mifthakov, Romanov.
Czechia had Dostal, Skarek and Patera in goal, perhaps the best trio in the WJC's ever. Kaut, Jenik, Necas, Pekar, Zadina, Lauko, Kondelik etc.
My point in all this? We deserved the win back then and the competition were fierce. That was truly impressive on a whole another level.

Just check the bolded and then check the meaning of speculating. I said that why to speculate about who is not here and who is because it's just completely pointless. Who knows if Holtz would've breaken his leg in the first game or was a total flop and result would've been the same. Or who knows if Blomqvist would've been bad against Sweden, this is all speculating and completely irrelevant.

Yes i understand that Finland was "supposed to play in finals" so they have been a disappointment in comparison to expectations. I just don't care about that i only care about results. What do you want from Pennanen? As long as he wins i'm good.

 

[Svedu]

Just check the bolded and then check the meaning of speculating. I said that why to speculate about who is not here and who is because it's just completely pointless. Who knows if Holtz would've breaken his leg in the first game or was a total flop and result would've been the same. Or who knows if Blomqvist would've been bad against Sweden, this is all speculating and completely irrelevant.

Yes i understand that Finland was "supposed to play in finals" so they have been a disappointment in comparison to expectations. I just don't care about that i only care about results. What do you want from Pennanen? As long as he wins i'm good.

I'n not speculating, i'm stating facts. You're the one deciding to see and read it as speculations.
I mean are Raymond, Slafkovsky, Nemec, Mesar, Chromiak, Eklund or Holtz playing this year? How is that speculation for you?

The funny thing here is that you don't have any answers to any of my questions and the biggest fact so far is that Finlands yet to impress in this years tournament. End of story.
Again, let's see how the final goes and for the third time, i' ll gladly admit to be wrong if they do impress after all.

 

[karhukissa]

Yes they are not playing, but what is the point? This is your quote and you can tell me that is this speculation or do you have a crystal ball?

"
Slovakia with their best talent could've beaten us without question, upset or not.
Germany could have been a lot tougher opponent as well. Even Austria missed their best player.
All in all, there are a lot of factors that made this possible."

Everything you said above could've happened, but we don't know it. It is called speculation and totally pointless to mention in order to play this Finland down. This is sports, we might aswell speculate that is Usain Bolt really the fastest man because ther might be faster people somewhere in the jungle. All in all there are always factors that makes things possible, you seem to have way too narrow way of thinking these things. What if Finland would've have different approach to games because they are facing these guys you mentioned? How that would've went? Exactly, you and i don't have answers to that so it's pointless to speculate.

 

[Svedu]

Yes they are not playing, but what is the point? This is your quote and you can tell me that is this speculation or do you have a crystal ball?

"
Slovakia with their best talent could've beaten us without question, upset or not.
Germany could have been a lot tougher opponent as well. Even Austria missed their best player.
All in all, there are a lot of factors that made this possible."

Everything you said above could've happened, but we don't know it. It is called speculation and totally pointless to mention in order to play this Finland down. This is sports, we might aswell speculate that is Usain Bolt really the fastest man because ther might be faster people somewhere in the jungle.

Could've? Is that same as they would've? Read again. Whats your point? That it would've been impossible?

So if i made a mistake and speculated there? Why do you only focus on that? Because you know i'm right and you're trying so hard on being a smart*ss?

You know that you've been speculating quite a bit? Stating that Pennanen would be a mastermind after taking this roster to the final? Or have you already forgot that? In what way has he been a mastermind? After a coin flip? When even he couldn't defend Meriläinens poor performances anymore? Please.

 

[karhukissa]

Could've? Is that same as they would've? Read again. Whats your point? That it would've been impossible?

So if i made a mistake and speculated there? Why do you only focus on that? Because you know i'm right and you're trying so hard on being a smart*ss?

You know that you've been speculating quite a bit? Stating that Pennanen would be a mastermind after taking this roster to the final? Or have you already forgot that? In what way has he been a mastermind? After a coin flip? When even he couldn't defend Meriläinens poor performances anymore? Please.

Could've is speculating would've is a fact, and i accused you of speculating. Of course they could've that goes without saying but what is your point? Sweden could've won if they didn't take penalties like no sh*t?

I haven't been speculating at all i'm just saying that Finland won and they played great defensive game against Sweden. I also said that Finland hasn't been good but good enough since they are in the final? You are just going circles.

I say this to you for the last time. Even if there was all the best players possible for each team, we don't know if Finland would still be in the final or even Canada. But this is the final and nothing will change that.

 

[Svedu]

Could've is speculating would've is a fact, and i accused you of speculating. Of course they could've that goes without saying but what is your point? Sweden could've won if they didn't take penalties like no sh*t?

I haven't been speculating at all i'm just saying that Finland won and they played great defensive game against Sweden. I also said that Finland hasn't been good but good enough since they are in the final? You are just going circles.

I say this to you for the last time. Even if there was all the best players possible for each team, we don't know if Finland would still be in the final or even Canada. But this is the final and nothing will change that.

No they couldn't because they didn't.

You have claimed Pennanen to be a mastermind more than once, stop lying to yourself already.

Wow, how smart aren't you. Impressive. I guess that was really difficult to understand and come up with.

 

[karhukissa]

No they couldn't because they didn't.

Touché and that's all what matters.

Also Russia could be playing and it's possible that they would've swept Canada but it doesn't make their efforts in this tournament any lesser.

 

[Svedu]

Touché and that's all what matters.

And that many of the best players amongst our opponents were missing. And that you countered with irrelevant bs desperately trying to make a point when you couldn't.
Also, all that matters for YOU. Have a nice one mate.

 

[karhukissa]

And that many of the best players amongst our opponents were missing. And that you countered with irrelevant bs desperately trying to make a point when you couldn't. Have a nice one mate.

I will enjoy medal no matter what, you can go to typical Finnish pessimism that it's not as good as a medal because our opponents were missing players. Seeing life through grey coloured glasses must be dull.

 

[Svedu]

I will enjoy medal no matter what, you can go to typical Finnish pessimism that it's not as good as a medal because our opponents were missing players. Seeing life through grey coloured glasses must be dull.

No, i will cheer for my team and i will gladly celebrate if they win the gold.

Again, you're never ending made up thoughts and assumptions where you think that one thing must exclude the other. I can't understand why you insist on doing that. I won't speculate further on that.

 

[Lartsaman]

Do you guys consider Antti Pennanen to be a good coach?

Yes we concider him as a decent coach. Hes still stubborn as hell and he has a huge ego but He does his work well.

 

[FinPanda]

Do you guys consider Antti Pennanen to be a good coach?

He is alright, not my favourite but he gets the job done.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

They haven't been playing well in this tournament, correct. But they have played well enough. Yesterday they played easily the best game defensively, they looked super unmotivated when they killed that 5-3 and defended the lead. That is just ridiculous statement that they looked unmotivated and i don't know what to say to you.

First of all, it doesn't matter if there's Donald Trump behind Finland bench in any tournament ever, they always have the motivation for that jersey. It's not Team USA where motivation level depends on the daily mood and moons position. So you might dislike Pennanen but in these games motivation isn't the issue.

Mark my words, final will be very equal game. If it's not, all of you can quote me and laugh. And if it is, then we all can act surprised once again and give some excuse X. I promise that if Finland plays bad against Canada, i'll wear a donkey hat and say that Pennanen time is over and Svedu was right all along.

Not looking good for your boys tonight. First line caught standing around on that first goal.

 

[karhukissa]

Not looking good for your boys tonight. First line caught standing around on that first goal.

There is nothing surprising, Canada comes out of gate with full speed in front of their sold out crowd. Doing the same would be a suicide, there's not one team that can afford to challenge Canada in that. You get more chances but you give more chances and they will score.

Pace will slow down eventually (like we saw) and we get our own game going and some chances.

 

[Rob]

Great tournament for Finland.

 

[karhukissa]

Not looking good for your boys tonight. First line caught standing around on that first goal.

Canada won, but i hope next year you know better.

I don't remember when i've felt this bad for Finnish players, they deserved that win. Mental strenght what our hockey culture and teams have is something insane and for that reason only everytime, in any tournament Finland isn't counted as a medal candidate is just nonsense.

Give us one or two superstar talent on top of that team and we'd never lose any gold medals. Canadians shat their pants when Finland got back into the game and it was couple cm away from gold. I'd say that mental strenght and clutch what our teams have is something that's never seen before in international stage, Forsberg's era team Sweden is close though.

 

[Svedu]

I can't say anything more than i was impressed how the guys finished this game. They should be proud over themselves!
I do think we got steamed in the beginning but the way Finland came back was great.

Jatkola deserves a lot of praise. Excellent game from him. I hope teams are ready to follow up and scout him. Perhaps a future NHL'er, second option or not. He was good these two last games!
Strong of Heimosalmi to bounce back after his poor beginning in this game.

Sadly, my fears regarding Rafkin seemed to be precise, but... I hope he' ll shout my mouth in the future. Rooting for you too!

Feel a bit for Lambert as well. Questionable selection considering how he was used and got treated later on. Let's hope he' ll bounce back as well, not only for himself, but for finnish hockey as well. Because i' m searching after that speedy winger for our fourth line in a best-on-best in the future. Who knows if he can turn things around and learn to read the game a bit better and become more effective. He is still young!

Meriläinen, i apologize for being cruel. He's a human being. It was Pennanens fault insisting to keep it going after having a defense not being able to catch rebounds etc. I'm thinking of Rafkin and a couple of others.
I hope that he will have a nice career as well.

At the end of the day? Let's hope for a gold when it's christmas! When the tournament is supposed to be played anyways.

Last thing, Finland is a true powerhouse in hockey and there is no one who can claim anything else.
Two golds and one silver (loss in OT away) in three big tournaments? Hats off!

 

[Rob]

Canada won, but i hope next year you know better.

I don't remember when i've felt this bad for Finnish players, they deserved that win. Mental strenght what our hockey culture and teams have is something insane and for that reason only everytime, in any tournament Finland isn't counted as a medal candidate is just nonsense.

Give us one or two superstar talent on top of that team and we'd never lose any gold medals. Canadians shat their pants when Finland got back into the game and it was couple cm away from gold. I'd say that mental strenght and clutch what our teams have is something that's never seen before in international stage, Forsberg's era team Sweden is close though.

If the overtime was five on five it might have been a different story.

 

[UncleRisto]

Who are some 2003s you're looking forward to joining this team for Christmas, and do you see new 04's making it?